Forum - View topicWorst manga you've read and why?
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GATSU
Posts: 15299 |
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Sarki: I don't hate CLAMP, but I don't see what's so special about them that they have to dredge up every single one-shot they've ever produced. I know that's what made me lose interest in Rumiko Takahashi...
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Rah-Rah
Posts: 93 Location: Atlanta,GA |
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I think the thing that makes CLAMP unique is their art. I still think Kaori Yuki blows them away, but the are still good artists. Also, unlike that hack, Rumiko Takahashi, CLAMP still makes things that are unique and worth reading, unlike most of the recycled tripe Rumiko Takashi makes nowadays *cough* Inu-yasha*cough*.
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Sarki-Kun
 Posts: 594 Location: Spain |
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Well, we're putting Rumiko Takahashi in something it doesn't belongs to her...
I tried to find something to say for Lianncoop's explains, but I can't. Basically, I tried to translate it from my own version as good as I could, but I wasn't able to exactly know what did the english translators wrote. I swear that the spanish version looks more agressive than yours. Still, I find it as if they were perfect. We know that people is not perfect, but why do they criticize the things that people already knows? There's no water...Shall we don't have showers? There's no paper...Ok, I won't buy your mangas, then. Other thing that I should do is read it in its original version (But...Unless I'd go to Japan, I don't know how to do it  ). Until then, I personally think that they just mentioned problems, refering as if theirselves don't have those problems, and if theirselves were perfects.
Anyways, different ways to see that. |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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But, that's the thing. They don't see themselves as perfect. They list those specific things because A) They're obvious things that affect anyone in the world and B) They're easy things that we could fix. They're not listing to say "Haha...we need showers more than those people," they're saying that...if we really are so concerned about water consumption, Middle East affairs, consumption of non renewable resources...then we should do something about it. Instead we, as humans, say one thing and do another. Hokuto tries to steal the attention of the..."moment" and completely "misses" the point to say that cute girls just can't sacrifice certain things...which is pure sarcasm. Seishiro then gets that "moment" back by throwing the point back into perspective stating why he loves Tokyo despite its obvious flaws. No where in there can you read that they feel that they are "perfect." They are emphasizing everyone's flaws. In a perfect world, yes, they're saying if we really cared we wouldn't take our showers and we wouldn't print entertainment on disposable material. But we do, and we're flawed, and we chose to turn a blind eye and continue on in our days. There is no subliminal message that CLAMP is perfect and YOU shouldn't buy their manga...step a little bit outside the box, Sarki. |
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Onv
 Posts: 114 Location: Connecticut |
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Their is no racism in Tokuo Babaylon, atleast from what I've read. |
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Sarki-Kun
Posts: 594 Location: Spain |
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I agree with all you said, Lianncoop, except by...
If I recall well, the story was originally written during 1991 (otherwise, I can't imagine Tokyo with just 12,000,000 people, hehe). I know that Middle East affairs were, at the time, causing problems, but that was just after americans went for first time to moron's territories...And why didn't mention nothing of it, even if it was worst than Middle East disturbs? Because America was the mainly source for them for selling out of Eastern Asia, so they were just *kissing your feet*. That's where I find the racism. At other points, it's not racism, I consider them just critics. P.D: Got the last of Suki. Let me count how many times I think it's stupid while I'm reading it 
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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Well, I never was expecting you to *not* think it was stupid. :p I just figured you should get the last volume since you already had the other two. At the very least, the third volume clears some stuff up and "de-weirdifies" some of Hina and Asou's relationship. |
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Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
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You want racism, try the Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed Graphic Novels. Middle Eastern folks are alluded to be Troublemakers running around in Toyota Trucks. As for worse, other than two specific Shonen Jump Titles, and the haphazard name butchering of Initial D, worse has to by Gyo. |
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Nani?
 Posts: 632 |
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I will say, the conversation between Liancoop and Sarki-Kun, has made me wish to pick up Tokyo Bablyon. One of the things I admire about CLAMP is they can talk about serious things without being didactic. The fact that they are talking about the enviroment in a serious manner is something I admire and something that would not happen in any mainstream American media.
It gets to the heart of one of the things I love about Anime/Manga; the usually subtle and realistc comments about the enviroment, war, and power in general. As for Clamp being racist, I would point out they are the only Manga-kun I can think of who have made a foriegner the primary love interest for a Japanese character (rather then a mearly a rival), notably Sakura and Li Sharon who, as a relative of Clow Reed you could conjecture that he has spoiler[a degree of English ancestory] to go with his Chinese background. If you want to see real racism, it does exist but is usually not exported. In one I read about, a JAL stewardess/"heroine", listening to the complaints of a Korean passanger, suggests that said passenger disembark at 30,000 ft with a retort of "we don't supply parachutes either". Quite frankly, I can't think of anything like this liscened over here and I don't think I want to either. All the Best, Nani? |
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Sarki-Kun
Posts: 594 Location: Spain |
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Well, first of all, I'm not looking for racist mangas. You can prove it for yourself, where a few topics under I asked for some recommendations (not about racism).
Well, I hope you'll enjoy Tokyo Babylon, Nani?. As Lianncoop said, disliking CLAMP stories is not usual, and well, Tokyo Babylon and X/1999 (which takes place 9 years after TB) are supposed to be their greatest mangas. |
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Nani?
Posts: 632 |
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I understand that. But in this thread it was suggested that CLAMP was racist. I chose to defend them first by giving a positive from thier work and then by giving and example that even puts Haiseikoh 1973's citeing of Masumune Shirow to shame. All the Best, Nani? |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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The problem that happened here was CLAMP was discussing a political issue, not racist. Political issues being what they are, are not always universally accepted on one side. I think it's unfair you're claiming a political issue to be racist, when they never even mention the culture or people there. They just made a note about the warring that's been going on for years. Since Tokyo Babylon and X are manga that are connected to the current state of the world, it's only natrual they mention the middle eastern affairs because they are pretty much the biggest thing going on in our world today. They weren't being racist about it. Also, since in my personal opinion, I'd like to tell you that I don't think Tokyo Babylon is one of their greatest works. It's one of their oldest, and connected to what people consider the greatest *X* but it's pacing among other things bored me to death at times. I definitaly like their newer stuff better, and also I'd like to tell you that I'm one of the biggest CLAMP fans you'll ever find, and I can't stand Suki, or for that matter some of their other short little stupid stories, like Rex. It's only natrual for the amount of manga CLAMP releases, not everything is going to be a classic. But also keep in mind that the only person I can really think of as having more manga hits than CLAMP would be Osamu Tezuka. I can't think of another manga artist other than him that has had as much sucess with their titles. With that being said, it HAS to be true CLAMP has a quality about them that most manga-ka don't have. |
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Sarki-Kun
Posts: 594 Location: Spain |
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I'm not questionating CLAMP's quality. I'm just saying that I can't find what other fans (as you) love of them. I know I'm not anyone for saying if a serie or a mangaka is good or bad, I always speak from my own way I see it.
The racism come when you think about if...Middle East affears...They had nothing to do with Japan. Why did them scratch on what still nowadays, millions of eastern europeans hate? I find it as if Japan's perfect, never having *those* senseless wars. However, this is probably how people can see it. Guess if you would be from those countries, you'd think worst of it. Anyways, we're just saying the same all the time. You'll defend CLAMP saying that is not what they wanted, and I'll just say it's the way I see it (and if I have the wrong idea, I just hope time will put things in order). Instead of continue with this, shall we let other people explain about their opinions of their worst manga, and do not just scare them with huge posts releated to something that many people don't care 
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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One manga work could cover all three parts: Racism, political discrimination, and WORST MANGA EVER.
Taiwan Discourse (台湾論) by Yoshinori Kobayashi (小林善紀) As an extreme right wing manga-ka, he rationalize all actions done by Japanese military power since late 19th century, especially the oppression and exploitation Taiwan suffered from Japanese during its occupation from 1895 to 1945. Here are some examples: 1. The cover art consists a Japanese samurai standing on a peanut, which has the shape of Taiwan ans is also one of its major produce. 2. He and many right wing extremists he interviewed rationalized Japanese incursion since 1931-09-18 and invasion in China on 1937-07-07. 3. He rationalized drafting comfort women from various Japanese colonies and occupied areas for Japanese army during WWII, claiming they were volunteered and were proud of it. In fact they were either cheated (working as nanny, factory worker, etc.) or abducted. 4. He rationalized drafting aboriginal natives and claiming their efforts were for the sake of Japanese honor. In fact, after an incident in which a Japanese police officer deeply humiliates the tribal leader (not just that; it was the last straw), several tribes uprised and attacked a Japanese ceremony on 1930-10-27, killing 134 Japanese. Colonial government soon responded with infantry, artillery, aircraft, and the forbidden chemical weapons. More than 900 died after two-month siege, and follow-up arrest executed more than 200. 5. He, along with several right wing extremists (including former president Lee and many of his close aids), praised Lee's pro-Japan policy, who has openly praised Japan for their economical establishments during occupation but never mentioned Japanese oppression. BTW, Lee never uses interpretor when visited by Japanese guests, even at formal, official occasions. As for artistic value...ugly character design and poor storyboard organization. I don't know whether should I put it along with Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf; seems like doing so may make it more popular among right wing extremists and may attract curious youngsters who knows little about history. 
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Tommimacevovi
Posts: 21 |
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You want worse manga, just try this:
the TP version of ID, I bought vol. 1 of ID manga (becuase I don't really want to import the HK version (They are legit, btw)), but after flipping through 5 pages on a camping trip, I LITERALLY throw it into the camp fire, it's that bad...  (name and technical error, plus constant 5 year-old slang (slangs that's 5 years old)
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