Forum - View topic
NEWS: U.S. Disney XD to Air Stitch! Anime Starting Monday


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10524

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:35 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Well if they're a fan of the dub that's not too surprising they'd like the dub VAs, though I'm sure the huge nostalgia factor of early 20 con goers doesn't hurt; and trying to convince someone not to listen to their nostalgia is borderline impossible. Doesn't really change the fact they were pretty mediocre and changed the characters, though, especially after Ash suddenly sounded even more like a girl (I forget when that actually happened.. but the early voice was definitely deeper than Veronica Taylor's later voice for him) Though I'd still take them over the current PUSA voices, at least.


The thing though is many of them are quite the Pokemon game and sub fans too, given the kinds of questions they ask at the panels (like they'd ask something while explaining an aspect that's only in the games or in episodes that's only so far aired in Japan). So to many general Pokemon fans then, the Pokemon English adaptations are just fine. And more importantly to Nintendo, those fans signal that they're doing a good job, regardless of the original Japanese.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:54 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
The thing though is many of them are quite the Pokemon game and sub fans too, given the kinds of questions they ask at the panels (like they'd ask something while explaining an aspect that's only in the games or in episodes that's only so far aired in Japan). So to many general Pokemon fans then, the Pokemon English adaptations are just fine. And more importantly to Nintendo, those fans signal that they're doing a good job, regardless of the original Japanese.


Just because there's a group of dub watchers who are fine with it doesn't really make it good. I mean, the 4Kids dubs of YGO and OP were successful despite being horrid. (4Kids OP apparently lasted longer than Funi's OP, at any rate, which is kind of sad) but that doesn't really mean much. Though I'm not exactly sure why they're asking questions to people who no longer voice on the show. Assuming this is all true, of course, though I do suppose 'many' is a relative term. A room of 100 people isn't exactly all that big in the grand scheme of things, for example.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10524

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:30 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
The thing though is many of them are quite the Pokemon game and sub fans too, given the kinds of questions they ask at the panels (like they'd ask something while explaining an aspect that's only in the games or in episodes that's only so far aired in Japan). So to many general Pokemon fans then, the Pokemon English adaptations are just fine. And more importantly to Nintendo, those fans signal that they're doing a good job, regardless of the original Japanese.


Just because there's a group of dub watchers who are fine with it doesn't really make it good.


Well, I could turn around and say just because there's one sub watcher who doesn't like the dub doesn't really make it bad. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of opinions of both dub and sub watchers and gamers who think it's good, in other words, general Pokemon fans. Why are you so quick to discount their opinions while holding your own opinion so high? Some of 'em might be a holier Pokemon otaku than thou, ya never know.


TitanXL wrote:

Though I'm not exactly sure why they're asking questions to people who no longer voice on the show.


Some of those questions were asked in panels in the past.


TitanXL wrote:

A room of 100 people isn't exactly all that big in the grand scheme of things, for example.


It's the same metrics one judges what's popular in any con. You know what's popular when the room is full compared to other panels. 100 in a 1000-attendee con is good; 100 in a 20000-attendee con not so much. When going to cons, ya just get a feel for these things, what's a hot panel with long lines. (Ex: about 100 Sailor Moon fans packed a local con panel not too long ago - do you think Sailor Moon is not that popular?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 2028
Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:49 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
TitanXL wrote:

Pretty much the same with Pocket Monsters, none of the voices really fit their original personalities and the acting is very flat and monotone.


The Pokemon dub VAs are actually quite popular among Pokemon fandom. You should see their panels at cons.


THAT MY FRIEND IS AN UNDERSTATMENT!

I've seen most of the panels at the cons, & their BIG! and every single fan wants the orignal to return. Not to mentioned that it's the series is the only one 4kds did ok with ( even though they destroyed everything else ) and if i had a choice i'll take them over the PUSA version.

And I would not mind seeing an official eng sub version,though there's no way in hell that will happen no thanks to PUSA.

Same with disney. I do not see those 4kids clones releasing an eng sub for Stich either.

enurtsol wrote:
Well, I could turn around and say just because there's one sub watcher who doesn't like the dub doesn't really make it bad. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of opinions of both dub and sub watchers and gamers who think it's good, in other words, general Pokemon fans. Why are you so quick to discount their opinions while holding your own opinion so high? Some of 'em might be a holier Pokemon otaku than thou, ya never know.


well i'm definitely one of them and i've been a follower since day 1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:50 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Well, I could turn around and say just because there's one sub watcher who doesn't like the dub doesn't really make it bad. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of opinions of both dub and sub watchers and gamers who think it's good, in other words, general Pokemon fans. Why are you so quick to discount their opinions while holding your own opinion so high? Some of 'em might be a holier Pokemon otaku than thou, ya never know.


Because the dub is bad. People who say it's not or 4Kids did a good job on it have either never seen the original or just can't break away from their nostalgia. You can't rewrite entire episodes, cut out entire episodes, rewrite character personalities and dialog, change entire plotlines, gut the music, throw digital paint everywhere, and have completely unfitting VAs who can't really act and still say something is a good dub from an objective standpoint (so not in a "it's so bad, it entertains me, so it's good" kind of way. It's no different than 4Kids other dubs. I'm willing to bet nostalgia, though, because those are usually the people who say the first series was the best, which is odd since a lot of sub watchers agree it was the weakest because of how new and inexperienced the writers were back then before Advanced Generation (it was also the most edited series, ironically enough).

Quote:
It's the same metrics one judges what's popular in any con. You know what's popular when the room is full compared to other panels. 100 in a 1000-attendee con is good; 100 in a 20000-attendee con not so much. When going to cons, ya just get a feel for these things, what's a hot panel with long lines. (Ex: about 100 Sailor Moon fans packed a local con panel not too long ago - do you think Sailor Moon is not that popular?)


I just question the importance when I can see fansubs get over 100,000 downloads per episode. It applies to a lot of things, really, I wonder if anime releases sell as well as those numbers of torrents and if the bulk of the anime fanbase isn't just the pirates. But, in general, conventions seem to be an entirely different mindset and fanbase than other anime fans. Especially when it comes to dubs: there's a lot of dub worship at cons from what I've noticed with the amount of fanboy/fangirlism to certain actors like Vic Mignogna and J. Michael Tatum, and such. Not to knock them or anything, but cons definitely felt like an entirely different fanbase with the few I've been to.

And actually jr0904, I'd blame the lack of a sub release on Nintendo of America most likely. Viz said they couldn't release YGO manga uncut because Konami of America forced them to use the American character and card names and such. Same reason the Yu-Gi-Oh! ZeXal subs 4Kids puts out uses the dub names. Legal issues. I imagine it'd be the same with Nintendo and Pocket Monsters, where the sub would be forced to use all the English names. So really the only option is fansubs in this case. Sort of like how I doubt Disney would even both with an uncut subtitle release of Stitch! Kid's don't want to read subtitles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10524

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:08 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Well, I could turn around and say just because there's one sub watcher who doesn't like the dub doesn't really make it bad. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of opinions of both dub and sub watchers and gamers who think it's good, in other words, general Pokemon fans. Why are you so quick to discount their opinions while holding your own opinion so high? Some of 'em might be a holier Pokemon otaku than thou, ya never know.


Because the dub is bad. People who say it's not or 4Kids did a good job on it have either never seen the original or just can't break away from their nostalgia. You can't rewrite entire episodes, cut out entire episodes, rewrite character personalities and dialog, change entire plotlines, gut the music, throw digital paint everywhere, and have completely unfitting VAs who can't really act and still say something is a good dub from an objective standpoint (so not in a "it's so bad, it entertains me, so it's good" kind of way.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But there is no such as an objective critique. The most anyone can strive for is a consensus of majority of subjective opinions. I'm just pointing out that there are opinions out there who enjoy the dub. Despite the changes. Despite being sub fans. Despite being uber-gamers. Etc etc. Those are their opinions, and whatever reasons they may be, they are entitled to them as much as yours. There just happens to be many of them.


TitanXL wrote:

Quote:
It's the same metrics one judges what's popular in any con. You know what's popular when the room is full compared to other panels. 100 in a 1000-attendee con is good; 100 in a 20000-attendee con not so much. When going to cons, ya just get a feel for these things, what's a hot panel with long lines. (Ex: about 100 Sailor Moon fans packed a local con panel not too long ago - do you think Sailor Moon is not that popular?)


I just question the importance when I can see fansubs get over 100,000 downloads per episode. It applies to a lot of things, really, I wonder if anime releases sell as well as those numbers of torrents and if the bulk of the anime fanbase isn't just the pirates. But, in general, conventions seem to be an entirely different mindset and fanbase than other anime fans. Especially when it comes to dubs: there's a lot of dub worship at cons from what I've noticed with the amount of fanboy/fangirlism to certain actors like Vic Mignogna and J. Michael Tatum, and such. Not to knock them or anything, but cons definitely felt like an entirely different fanbase with the few I've been to.


Cons are like a snapshot, the better representation of fandom at a given point in time. A typical fan tends to hang out with just a few factions of fandom, but cons tend to bring all those factions together. For instance, you don't usually hang out with dub fans, but obviously dub fans make up a significant faction of fandom nowadays. But I tell you what, it hasn't always been that way - for a long time, one couldn't even mention dub at a con without being thrown out. Myself, years ago I thought BL wouldn't amount to anything more than a niche fanfic fancy, but as I started noticing the growing BL fanbase at cons, that's when realization hit us that maybe, just maybe, it could sustain its own niche in the commercial industry. Cons make us realize those other factions that we don't usually encounter, and how these change over time, as all parts of the same fandom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:44 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But there is no such as an objective critique.


They removed and altered and changed many things to the point of unrecognizably. This can not be disputed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 991

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:03 am Reply with quote
Believe it or not, people DO like these changes despite knowing what happened. There are people who do like the voices and are fans of the voice actors and follow them around. There are people who enjoyed those whacky edits. When it comes to ones opinion, no facts on these type of things. Samurai Pizza cats was all sorts of messed up, yet has many fans who know its not close to the original at all loving it.

There are also fans of the original anime who say the first one is the best due to back then, the anime had much more freedom of leaving in more Japanese culture. Newer seasons, you don't really see it these days. Made up language on items, no flat out mentioning of Japanese culture days, or a character sporting specific Japanese attire randomly. Since the anime is looking to easily market the anime to different markets, you just don't have many of those things anymore, so those fans on top of the dub fans, nostalgic, older fans, etc and you see why the original series is viewed as one of the popular ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Manga
Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:12 am Reply with quote
UPDATE: After only airing 4 episodes it seems DisneyXD has taken Stitch! off of its schedule, no one knows if this is temporary or they just plain decided not to air it, either way this just goes to show how unprofesssional modern Disney is. I truly hope this matter is sotred out and things work out for the better, but overall...I feel like I just got trolled by Disney big time. (those evil b******S)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 357
Location: Great Barrier Reef

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:19 pm Reply with quote
If a TV show was taken off the air so soon, then it must be because someone else coerced them to show it. They show it for the minimum amount of time in some contract somewhere, then they take it off and forget it ever happened.

I'd like to also mention that Dan Green is one of three 4Kids voice actors who have become popular outside of 4Kids (the others being Bella Hudson and Mark Diraison). There were plenty of people who wanted him to keep voicing Knuckles the Echidna, for instance, when Travis Willingham took over for the character.

The hamminess is a big part of his popularity though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LagannImpact



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
UPDATE: After only airing 4 episodes it seems DisneyXD has taken Stitch! off of its schedule, no one knows if this is temporary or they just plain decided not to air it, either way this just goes to show how unprofesssional modern Disney is. I truly hope this matter is sotred out and things work out for the better, but overall...I feel like I just got trolled by Disney big time. (those evil b******S)


It actually got 5 episodes. Who knows, maybe it will eventually get a weekend timeslot or something. It looked pretty cool, despite the fact that I was never a super fan of the 2002 Lilo & Stitch feature-length animated film.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10524

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:59 pm Reply with quote
LagannImpact wrote:
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
UPDATE: After only airing 4 episodes it seems DisneyXD has taken Stitch! off of its schedule, no one knows if this is temporary or they just plain decided not to air it, either way this just goes to show how unprofesssional modern Disney is. I truly hope this matter is sotred out and things work out for the better, but overall...I feel like I just got trolled by Disney big time. (those evil b******S)


It actually got 5 episodes. Who knows, maybe it will eventually get a weekend timeslot or something. It looked pretty cool, despite the fact that I was never a super fan of the 2002 Lilo & Stitch feature-length animated film.


CN used to do this all the time - they call it "stealth launches." Basically, they release it largely unadvertised (so they don't spend much money on it) and test the waters, before deciding to either drop it or go all-out spending money on the re-launch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Haterater wrote:
Believe it or not, people DO like these changes despite knowing what happened. There are people who do like the voices and are fans of the voice actors and follow them around. There are people who enjoyed those whacky edits. When it comes to ones opinion, no facts on these type of things. Samurai Pizza cats was all sorts of messed up, yet has many fans who know its not close to the original at all loving it.
I suppose there's also some people who enjoy being punched in the face. I guess if we can't apply some degree of objectivity here then the debate is pointless. Though, again, Samurai Pizza Cats is another show riding off nostalgia. All things considered, it was pretty awful, and would never fly today. Or maybe it would, given Funi's Shin-chan dub seems popular enough. I guess if that makes me 'Japanophile' or whatever, then so be it, but.. no, just no.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
I'd like to also mention that Dan Green is one of three 4Kids voice actors who have become popular outside of 4Kids (the others being Bella Hudson and Mark Diraison). There were plenty of people who wanted him to keep voicing Knuckles the Echidna, for instance, when Travis Willingham took over for the character.

The hamminess is a big part of his popularity though.


Eh, I don't think I'd put those two on the same level as Dan Green. Looking over their resumes, they don't seem to have many roles outside 4Kids stuff. As for Dan Green's popularity, most of it comes from LittleKuriboh's Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series. He pretty much turned Dan Green into a meme with all the videos and jokes about him, so people follow it and make it popular. Diraison and Hudson didn't get that treatment, and are nowhere near as talked about or exposed as Green is.

LagannImpact wrote:
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
UPDATE: After only airing 4 episodes it seems DisneyXD has taken Stitch! off of its schedule, no one knows if this is temporary or they just plain decided not to air it, either way this just goes to show how unprofesssional modern Disney is. I truly hope this matter is sotred out and things work out for the better, but overall...I feel like I just got trolled by Disney big time. (those evil b******S)


I don't think it even deserved to be on Disney Anime hyper to begin with.. isn't that a 'boys' channel? It stars a girl so I doubt boys would watch it for 'icky cooties'. It'd fit better and do better on normal Disney Channel, probably. Though that's obviously not going to happen.

I'm surprised it even aired here, to be honest. Now if CN ponies up for Powerpuff Girls Z then I'll be truly impressed (though, unfortunately, that also has an awful existing English dub already)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 991

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:22 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I suppose there's also some people who enjoy being punched in the face. I guess if we can't apply some degree of objectivity here then the debate is pointless. Though, again, Samurai Pizza Cats is another show riding off nostalgia. All things considered, it was pretty awful, and would never fly today. Or maybe it would, given Funi's Shin-chan dub seems popular enough. I guess if that makes me 'Japanophile' or whatever, then so be it, but.. no, just no.


The problem is that you're shutting out other's opinions and think that because something is "inferior" in your eyes, that means no one else should like it, and that's not right. You simply can't force or tell someone that something they like, for whatever reason, is bad. You can be a "Japanophile" without crushing or brushing aside how others like a show in a different way.

As for the shop, hoping they were just testing it out, or else they really didn't have faith in this title to begin with. Since there was already a Stitch series, they might have wanting to milk the franchise by adding more with the new series, but something went wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Manga
ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
You simply can't force or tell someone that something they like, for whatever reason, is bad.


Well those two are different things, one being subjective preference and objective quality. It is entirely possible for a person to like something that is bad. Of course some people confuse the two and think an comment against a product's quality is an insult to their opinion. Some people take matters too personally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group