Forum - View topicNEWS: Article on Anime Child Porn
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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The answer to that is fairly obvious. The belief is that the availability of virtual child-porn encourages the sexual abuse of children. The Japanese case of Kaoru Kobayashi is one of many that supports this belief. personally, I don't buy it. At least, not entirely. Obviously, media does influence people. When people see the media glorifying various acts, people will be influenced. This is undeniable. However the ammount of influence is the question. If the media was able to significantly influence the average person, everyone would be a mass murderer. The fact is that there are actually very few people who copy what they see on TV (ir regards to extreme acts such as murder and rape), and these people are clearly "messed up" to start out with. Whatsmore, why do some governments ban virtual protrayals of some crimes, but not others? You can't watch a depiction of 2 17-yearolds having concensula sex, you can't watch a graphic depiction of a 55-year old raping a 6 year old, but you can watch a graphic depiction of the same 55 year old torturing and killing a 6-year old. Obviously there's some inconcistencies here, and tracing them to their root is rather easy. (I'm not going to do this scientificly, forgive me for not providing proof). Obviously the reason people balk at depictions of sex crimes, especially sex crimes relating to minors, has to do with society's puritanical views on sex. Personally, I think virtual child porn, lolicom (or lolicon if you prefer) and even most Moe to be really disgusting. But fact is, there's no more reason for banning any of it than there is for banning 90% of the content we do allow.* (*Actually, I can think of some theoretical reasons, but these would require significant scientific/statistical research to back up. Perhaps individuals are more easilly influenced into abusing minors sexually than they are influenced into violent acts. Perhaps there is less fear of being caught since children often keep quiet about what happens, and less fear of the concequences because you won't spend life in prison for sexual abuse. But these are a lot of perhaps, and I've never heard of a government citing a reliable study when passing laws banning virtual child porn) In short, I'm against the banning of virtual-child-porn. It distrubs me to say this, because I'd rather not deal with the thought of that material being available (and I expect lawmakers are overly subjective and influenced by that same feeling), but if the material is not shown to have an actual, significan role in hurting anyone, than it isn't dangerous. If the material is dangerous, rules regarding what should be banned should be applied equally accross the board, and I see no reason (except the above hypothetical reasons) why virtual-child porn would be more dangerous than violent videogames. Sorry for the unorganised nature of this post. I don't have the time to edit it the way I would edit an article or editorial. It was written off the top of my head (based on previous thoughts and discussions), and not re-read before posting. -t |
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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Tempest's post sums it up for me as well; I couldn't (honestly) say it any better.
Hayami, I don't want to be misunderstood here. I am a great fan of Popotan and only some of the CG images from the game are disturbing to me; the one's of Mii doing sexual things (masterbation, in a sex act), not panty shots or even the bare butt picture (ever seen the old Coppertone ads?). I have no intention of burning my Popotan DVDs. 
As for discrimination against you, I have to cry foul. Having my children avoid grey area situations is not dicriminating against them or the lolicon fan. I'm only denying them and the lolicon fan access; it's called Parenting. If I was to meet you and then found out you were a lolicon fan, I would want to discuss your hobby with you. You deserve my respect as does anyone else. There is simply too much grey area as to the effects of this type of material on people, so my children would be out of the picture. |
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Hayami
 Posts: 38 |
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Why foul?
Are there any statistcs about relation between being admitted(and not "found to be" just after commiting a crime) loli fans, such as authors of doujinshi or avid loli hentai collectors/buyers and crimes against children? I don't think that an average person from these who admit their passion for loli art is any more dangerous than your average friendly neighbor. So i do feel discriminated and bitter. Though as for my person - actually i rather avoid anyone in RL except my colleagues. I wish to meet just these who really understand me and there is barely a chance to meet such person in RL. So as neighbor perhaps i would never meet neither you nor your children anyway, but it still feels bitter to be put on a virtual black list as potantial danger. I just wish one day there will be a place in the world where no one considers people to be dangerous based merely on their fantasy (which they share with other fans of the same art). Also about Popotan. You said that it's sad they could get only 10.000 signatures. But don't they try to change the laws so that lolicon would be banned (just like in Canada)? I did not said that you hate Popotan anime, but i wonder why you don't see that loli is in many cases just another side of moe. By the way, may be you missed this part in tempest's post: he dislikes the most of moe almost as much as loli. Popotan anime is pure moe, so you can't agree with him 100% ^_~ Do you like UNDER17 (Popotan anime OP, Genshiken OP, DearS OP, Mouse OP), Halko Momoi (Mii's, Komugi's, Tama-chan's(Bottle fairy), Ai's(FF Unlimited) seiyuu) ? If yes, you could watch UNDER17 DVD "UNDER17 LIVE 2003 - Moe Song wo Kiwameruzo!", it's only US$ 35.50 at... (i don't know whether it could be seen as advertising, but probably you know already the places where you can get Japanese DVDs); sure they sing OP and ED of Popotan game too. What do you think, how many of UNDER17 fans at this live show own Popotan game? ^~ Guess they feel uncomfortable performing these songs for this auditory? Also you do know that many famous artists start their career with doujunshi, often hentai and not unusual even lolicon? I think the key is just to understand that for an otaku an anime girl does not represent real girl, the same way this anime girl on the wall of Genshiken club does not represent a real girl for its members. Last edited by Hayami on Sat May 28, 2005 10:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
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If they are of age then it would be fine. Mass-murderers are your typical loners who were alienated from society. Like Pierre LeBrun and Marc Lapine, they were both harassed and they eventually snapped and they took their revenge by murdering people they hated. Mass Murderers are not people who are into violent video games, yes that influences them but with all the mass murdering cases (the one that happened recently when that guy shot his grandfather and killed people at his school) were rejected from society. If real child porn is illegal why isn't animated child porn legal? As mentioned before hentai is the same as porn, if it wasn't then it wouldn't be rated adults only, children could see it if they would like because it's not real. So your saying if it doesn't physically harm real people it's all right? Referring back to the Janet Jackson case, she didn't hurt people physically so why did she have to apologize? You guys think too black and white, you should start seeing shades of grey; just because they aren't real people doesn't mean the same content of child pornography is still there. Also in the media teens having sex are actually played by young adults who look like teenagers.
I don't know about you but if one gets excited seeing animated child porn then wouldn't they get excited over real child porn? Wouldn't they have obsessions with seeing children naked wanting to have sex with them? If one can get excited over seeing drawn child having sex then something is wrong with them. |
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Hayami
Posts: 38 |
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I refuse to call loli hentai art "animated child porn" since young looking anime characters do not neccessary represent children for the viewer and even for the author. Just as anime world and especially hentai world does not neccessary represent real world. An anime character may be a completely different species. And even a fan of loli hentai art who does see these characters as representation of children does not neccessary enjoy real child porn, because of conscience/compassion. It's the same as if you enjoy a horror film and than someone tells you that it was actually all real ( a snuff video ), and a person was really killed.
As showed above an obsession with seeing (real) naked children is not neccessary to enjoy loli hentai art. Further even for a person who wishes to see this the step from wish to deed requires lack of ethics. And since sex would obviously harm a (real) young girl, only a person without conscience/compassion could enjoy it.
As i said above, a loli hentai drawing does not neccessary represent a real child. If drawings would represent real people, your statement would apply to the most hentai, because the most hentai feature more or less unconsensual sex. Also i don't think we need degrading remarks like "something is wrong with them" in this discussion. |
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Woko
 Posts: 18 |
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I didn't quite get what you're trying to say, but it's prolly because english isn't my first language. Did you mean that porn played by young-looking adults is ok? It so, why are you against anime child porn, which was also done by adults? And if you meant that young-looking adults shouldn't be allowed to play in porn (which I hope wasn't your point), than I have nothing more to say. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think your two main arguments are: 1) "Anime child porn takes away real people's rights." It doesn't, you don't have to watch it, noone's threatening you by it or whatever. If you don't like it don't watch it but don't prevent other people from watching it. 2) "Anime child porn is dangerous cause it encourages people to watch real child porn/rape&kill children or whatever." For first, it hasn't been proven by any independent study so it's only our theory. And If, I say IF it was true and you would want to ban anime child porn because of it, you would also have to ban murder stories, video games and almost everything that portrays doing something bad. |
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Trickstr
 Posts: 19 Location: Tasmania, Australia |
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My veiw is that even if "animated child porn" doesn't encourage anything it should be illgeal because its just SO wrong.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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This argument has gone on for far too long, but for the record, the article suggests that in Japan there is no age restriction for buying loli com, and that should be corrected soon at least. As for Child porn, whether animated, or real, morally and ethically, it's only purpose is the feed a desire that is considered mentally sick and perverted in the worst way. I also personally dispise it in any form but I'm also a realist and I understand that there is a large amount of the global population that get off on it, and on that basis I would rather that they serviced their desire with drawings then to feed the pockets of the scum and criminals who produce the real thing using real children. But none of it should be allowed to be sold, or be in the posession of any one under the age of 18 anywhere on this planet.
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Ganryu
Posts: 106 |
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Gay porn is SO WRONG. Should it be banned too? |
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Hayami
Posts: 38 |
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Obviously you have missed something ^^; Taken from the first post on the page 10:
How about to stop insulting loli art fans? I realize that, unlike in some other forums, in ANN there is no pro-loli majority. Yet, please consider the feelings of your opponets as well as the level of the discussion you affect through bashing your opponents. Do you want this thread to go the path of flames and be locked? Also you don't even consider the possibility that the desire you are talking about deviated so much, for many it really does not have anything to do with real children. I hope you don't try to defend phantasy creatures that are being lusted after, do you?
<--- perfectly OK, but at the end of your sentence (which i don't feel like quoting) you draw an image of masterbation practice of your opponents. Imo it's beyond civil discussion. Let's keep certain neveau, OK? Last edited by Hayami on Sun May 29, 2005 3:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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sarcasm: "I think your wrong therefore you should be banned" |
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Woko
Posts: 18 |
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This is the same view the communist dictators in my country had about dissidents; it's nice that their philosophy is spreading worldwide! |
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Trickstr
Posts: 19 Location: Tasmania, Australia |
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are you a homophobe then? ;P
come on, lets be realistic. Not everyone is going to like every law. And if there is a law passed that you dont like it doesn't make the passers of that law dictators. And besides, I'm sure there are many things you think are just wrong that should be illegal. |
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Ganryu
Posts: 106 |
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No i was giving it as an example. Just like i am disgusted by guro. Yet i don't want guro banned. It was an example.
Try me. Last edited by Ganryu on Sun May 29, 2005 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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[quote="Hayami"]
Obviously you have missed something ^^; Taken from the first post on the page 10:
And just what is child porn, whether animated, or real, good for anyway? Should this "art", as you call it, be exhibited in all of the more high browed exhibition halls in say London, Paris, or New York? I'm sure it would get rave reviews by the art critics. I don't consider you as an "opponent". I'm not here to fight with anyone. If you feel insulted, and that you must defend the existance of child porn, in any form, then I must come to the conclusion that you must be of that same desire. If the shoe fits........  But please do stay at home with your "art" and away from school, and park playgrounds. 
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