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ANN Book Club I: Eve no Jikan.


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wanderlustking



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 449
Location: Bozeman, Montana

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Eve no Jikan will be the first subject of our ANN Book Club revival. We will be splitting it up into three sets of 2 episodes each; I would like everyone to try and finish the first two episodes by this Tuesday; if I hear from everyone that they've finished early, we can start then, but for now let's just aim for beginning discussion on Tuesday evening. Any objections?
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12858
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:32 pm Reply with quote
No objections here.

I reckon if we can get at least ten people then we'll have a great discussion, but I'll still participate even if we don't get that many. Bit busy tonight, but tomorrow night looks like a perfect time for me to watch the episodes. It's only thirty or so minutes to watch both of them, should be easy enough.
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14987
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:10 pm Reply with quote
Anybody who needs a CR guest pass, PM me and I'll give you one of the three I have. Keep in mind they only last 48 hours once you begin using it.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4129
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Sounds good to me. I might be busy Tuesday night but I can always catch up on Wednesday because I'm not working that day this week.
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Tris8



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 2113
Location: Where the rain is.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:54 am Reply with quote
Yep, sounds good. So we'll give each 2 ep segment a week of discussion?
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supercreep



Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 514
Location: Long Island, New York

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:59 am Reply with quote
This sounds good to me.
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anime racket



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:41 am Reply with quote
Sorry, but I don't think I'll be able to join; I voted for Eve no jikan
because I thought it wasn't going to cost me any money or be
a hassle to watch. I'm using someone else's computer and I don't
think they'll appreciate me doing anything out of the norm with it.
I'll still follow the discussion though, I just won't be able to join in.
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Tris8



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 2113
Location: Where the rain is.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:40 pm Reply with quote
anime racket wrote:
Sorry, but I don't think I'll be able to join; I voted for Eve no jikan
because I thought it wasn't going to cost me any money or be
a hassle to watch. I'm using someone else's computer and I don't
think they'll appreciate me doing anything out of the norm with it.
I'll still follow the discussion though, I just won't be able to join in.
You can easily get a guest pass from one of the people here. It's free, doesn't do anything to the computer, all you have to do is make an account with crunchyroll, and all that requires is an e-mail address. I can tell you they don't spam you with e-mails. I get something from them about once a month.
If you still don't want to that's ok. The first ep is still available without money or guest passes.
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anime racket



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:57 am Reply with quote
Well, I'll try watching the first episode and if I like it I'll ask for
permission to give out the email adress. Thanks for your generosity
guys. Very Happy

Edit: Just watched the first episode. So, how exactly would I go
about using a guest pass if I got one?
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Tris8



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 2113
Location: Where the rain is.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:11 pm Reply with quote
anime racket wrote:
Well, I'll try watching the first episode and if I like it I'll ask for
permission to give out the email adress. Thanks for your generosity
guys. Very Happy

Edit: Just watched the first episode. So, how exactly would I go
about using a guest pass if I got one?
=D Well, first you make an account with crunchyroll. Then to get a guest pass, a member has to give you one. Blood-, errinundra, supercreep, and wandering-dreamer have all offered guest passes to those in need, so if you pm one of them they can give you the link =)
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GeminiDS85



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 367
Location: 京都市

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:03 pm Reply with quote
I had a free hour.

Space

The space and perceived boundaries that allow systems to operate are, perhaps, one of the quintessential factors in analyzing human interactions. The perception of space and how far its boundaries extend is an essential facet of how systems are able to function. The perceived boundaries of these spaces permit a system of rules to operate within its ambit. However, a fundamental problem with the perceived boundaries of a system is that the humans with the greatest amount of power inside the system are the ones determining the boundaries, and the ways these boundaries are constructed and enforced often echo the ideological concerns of the group who determines the rules.

Except for the boundaries of a select few naturally occurring systems, all other boundaries are not finite; in fact, all these other boundaries should be predominantly understood as temporal, intangible indicators of the perception of human thought (or in this case, robot thought). In contrast, however, human beings have long since attempted countless progresses to try and create static boundaries in the world, and these attempts to create fixed boundaries express the human tendency to attempt to create structure and rules. Conceivably, boundaries in a space can exist and become fixed once the humans (or robots) that interact with the system in place accept that the rules determining said boundaries are absolute. Yet this absolutism is predicated on the notion that every person (or robot) will accept the rules as unconditional. Once one person decides that they are no longer willing to accept the rules of the system, the boundaries, in effect, cease to be static markers. After the boundaries of the space cease to be absolute, the rules of the system operating in the space become erratic. The system then becomes susceptible to the resolve of many competing ideologies, and often the ideology that becomes the new system inside the space is one propagated by the humans who exercise the most power. This tendency for system and spatial manipulation by humans is one of the foremost reoccurring themes in human culture, and one does not have to look very far to find a shining example of this kind of system and spatial manipulation. Eve no Jikan is just one analytical paradigm that invites its viewers to recognize the importance of spatial and system boundaries.

The title Eve on Jikan invites the viewer to ruminate on the connection between the space and single rule of the café in juxtaposition to the Garden of Eden and its one rule. The parallelism between Eden and the café is no accident. The use of a female endowed by her creator to transgress and break the rules(speculative), and the confined space that functions as a sanctuary from the desolation of the outside world is just one of the ways Eve on Jikan conjures up parallels to the biblical tale of paradise.

The space of the café and how the rules operate inside its ambit is a quintessential factor that necessitates further elucidation. During the opening scene of Eve no Jikan we are presented with a person looking upon a map with clearly visible boundaries. This introductory image establishes one of the essential thematic concerns from which the viewer should be able to develop an analytical context for interpreting this anime, that is, the importance of spatial manipulation, boundaries, and the rules that exist inside them. The café in Eve no Jikan functions as a sanctuary from the predominant ideology of society—an ideology that heavily mediates the correct way to interact with and treat robots. In this thematic context, the café is appropriately characterized as a “Grey Zone”. Even though the space of the café functions as a sanctuary, its location within a larger space controlled by a dissimilar ideology obstructs its ideological concerns from seeping outside of its ambit. However, the space and boundaries of the café are safe from the penetrating influence of the system that surrounds it so long as the subjects inside the space adhere to the rules: “In this café, there is to be no discrimination between humans and robots. Customers, please cooperate. Obey the rules and have a fun time”.

One thing that might be helpful to think about when watching this show is the difference between rules and decorum inside spaces. Which rules are best described as decorum and which ones should be called rules? What is the punishment for violating decorum verses violating a rule? Do rules simply become decorum if they lack punishment?
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errinundra
Enjoying the time of EVEEnjoying the time of EVE


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2702
Location: Melbourne, Oz

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:14 pm Reply with quote
@GeminiDS85,

I've never given much thought to what you're pointing out. In one of the links below, Yasuhiro Yoshiura explains why he used, and took advantage of, bounded space. Question: who is Eve? Nagi? If so, do you think she is human or android?

When Crunchyroll first aired Time of Eve they presented questions from fans to Studio Rikka and posted the replies from the director, Yasuhiro Yoshiura, and the producer, Tom Nagae. I thought it was sensational that the makers of an anime could converse with fans as it was screening. There are no spoilers in the responses - the only specific references are to the first two episodes - but it makes for fascinating reading.

Crunchyroll A

Crunchyroll B

Crunchyroll also held a competition where viewers wrote about their take on the cafe and its significance to the story. The competition was judged by Yasuhiro Yoshiura himself. The winning entry and the director's response are brilliant.

Time of Eve Competition

As GeminiDS85 points out, the anime uses space to set out the parameters of the story. It also uses time subtly and effectively. (How's that for a segue?) There are several moments where something takes place and is referenced several episodes later. I want to point out two. For those watching the series for the first time I won't explain their significance but I ask people to remember them.

1. Robots banned from certain spaces.



2. Water droplet. This happens right at the end of episode 1. The significance of this image is revealed in episode 5.



Please forgive me for such an image heavy post but here are two other favourite moments from these two episodes.

3. Mistress taking her androids shopping. It speaks for itself.



4. Nagi closing her eyes as Rikuo throws a hissy fit after meeting someone unexpected. The range of facial expressions is a highlight of the series.



BTW, I reverted my avatar to a previous edition to be in keeping with the thread. Smile
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 548
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:46 pm Reply with quote
GeminiDS85, it is always nice to meet a fellow philosopher, and I lift my glass to you. The idea has merit from a human system perspective, while I prefer to deal with individuals, and so I can not say for certain I agree with the content. However, I will defer to you on this, and I will keep that in mind for the next two episodes.

First, some light music.

Generally from a Western tradition, the robot was feared as a replacement or a successor. You could even see it as a call back to the old greek myths of Zeus overthrowing his father only to live under the fear of one of his own sons overthrowing him. Caves of Steel, Blade Runner, Matrix, these stories are all about robots replacing or supplanting humanity. Eve has this conflict, but so far it is much more a commentary on discrimination and a struggle against societal norms, which, I imagine, makes it rather iconoclastic to a Eastern audience.

The robot discrimination particularly reminds me of Asimov's Caves of Steel (the Luddite tomato commercial a prime example), Eve has an uniquely Japanese flair to it, particularly in the 'dori-kei' or whateverit'scalled social disease. This is in the same flavor of other malaises like the otaku and hikikimori, which have no Western counterpart. Western sci-fi generally treats robo-human relations as a comedy, and in America we don't have the strong Confucian-inspired collective culture that is prevalent in Eastern nations. In America, we would probably be less concerned about having sex with robots than we would be with them taking our jobs.

The first episode framed the setting, the second the framed the characters and the conflict. The overarching conflict is whether or not robots should be allowed human emotions and personalities (this conflict is consistent with the Western tradition of robots). There are two other, more personal conflicts. The first whether the hero can accept Sammy as a person while dealing with the social stigma of being a 'dori-kei' (Am I spelling that right?). The second is the side-kick's Deckardian quest to discover the cafe patron's true identities. It was no simple name drop when he was called 'Blade Runner'.

As for the animation, I did notice that of the three main settings, only the cafe had any life to it. Both the house and the school were drab, grey, and sterile. The symbolism should be obvious. The scene at the entrance to the cafe was well done, and the merging of 2D and 3D was quite splendid. However, I have to say I disliked the jerky camera, which I think reduced from the emotion of the scene instead of adding to it. And the music choices seemed odd at times, but that is not my forte.

Overall, I was unimpressed so far. I generally dislike sci-fi anime, because I have read so much good sci-fi that it takes a lot to impress me.
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GeminiDS85



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 367
Location: 京都市

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:50 pm Reply with quote
1. Robots banned from certain spaces.



Was that intentional on your part to include a picture of a robot hand plucking a red fruit? Wink

I’m busy for the rest of the week, but I might try and write up a brief exegesis this weekend on the theories of Sherry Turkle and David Levy to include in the next discussion.

Also, my next topic is going deviate away from the context of authorial intent and focus on the fantasy of reciprocation, the theory of the mind, and the anthropomorphization of objects.
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wandering-dreamer



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1713

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:26 pm Reply with quote
Tris8 wrote:
=D Well, first you make an account with crunchyroll. Then to get a guest pass, a member has to give you one. Blood-, errinundra, supercreep, and wandering-dreamer have all offered guest passes to those in need, so if you pm one of them they can give you the link =)

Yep, I've already got a guest pass and love the show so I'll pass one along to anyone who needs it. Also, forget if this was brought up in the previous thread or not, but the movie version is avaliable on the US itunes for rental or purchase (the movie version is basically the same except it adds on a epilogue which my mom and I thought added to the series even more).
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