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NEWS: Durarara's Japanese BDs to Include English Dub/Sub


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Ashen Phoenix



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1602

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:42 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
Ashen Phoenix wrote:

In my mind, a box set it supposed to offer the series collectively cheaper than the individual DVDs did.


It is. It would have cost you $700-800 to buy the R2 DVDs (assuming you were buying from Amazon.jp or somewhere else that offered a ~25% discount). So buying this BD set instead saves you several hundred dollars. Wink

Oh, goodness! How silly of me. Thank you, good sir or madam for enlightening me. Rolling Eyes

Since it appears I wasn't at first clear I'll reiterate in simpler terms: In my mind, a non-imported box set it supposed to offer the series collectively cheaper than the individual DVDs did.

I fully realize imported DVDs, box sets included, are going to be considerably more expensive.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:10 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

On the other hand, this indicates potential. The interest and the market is definitely there. There are Japanese fans who ARE willing to buy when the prices are significantly lower as I've cited here. In fact, reverse importation wouldn't be considered a problem if this were not the case.


Not only would they not have to worry about reverse importation anymore, they wouldn't have to worry about making any profit at all. The extremely cheap first Volume of Nana with only 1 episode on it was a gimmick to generate buzz, sold at 777 yen for 77 days. In and of itself, it almost certainly lost them money, which isn't something most businesses shoot for if they'd like to remain in business. Meanwhile the remaining higher priced volumes were probably decently profitable, despite much lower sales. Vastly increased sales are worthless if to get those sales you have to price something so low that you're selling it at a loss.


Last edited by hissatsu01 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:26 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Rather than comparing between different cultures, countries or environments, instead imagine within the same environment or place if EVERY melon costs $120.


That would be a perfect environment, like a vacuum, for proving theories but like all perfect for class environments, they don't represent what happens when real world variables are introduced.
You can't take the 'real' out of real world just to make your comment prettier.
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GokuMew2



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1498
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:57 am Reply with quote
Hm... Well, in Japan I would think prices need to be higher because they are covering the costs of the entire production of the series whereas in other countries, the licensor just needs to cover the cost of the license.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14122
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:35 am Reply with quote
GokuMew2 wrote:
Hm... Well, in Japan I would think prices need to be higher because they are covering the costs of the entire production of the series whereas in other countries, the licensor just needs to cover the cost of the license.


Not quite. A distributor outside of Japan also has to cover translation costs, dub costs (if there is one) as well as a number of other expenses related to releasing a title, including marketing. But yeah, from what I've heard the only reason why non-Naruto, non-Bleach, non-One Piece anime gets made in Japan is because the otaku there are willing to spend big bucks on physical releases. Without that, none of the super-niche stuff would ever get made.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3167
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:07 am Reply with quote
Ashen Phoenix wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
Ashen Phoenix wrote:

In my mind, a box set it supposed to offer the series collectively cheaper than the individual DVDs did.


It is. It would have cost you $700-800 to buy the R2 DVDs (assuming you were buying from Amazon.jp or somewhere else that offered a ~25% discount). So buying this BD set instead saves you several hundred dollars. Wink

Oh, goodness! How silly of me. Thank you, good sir or madam for enlightening me. Rolling Eyes

Since it appears I wasn't at first clear I'll reiterate in simpler terms: In my mind, a non-imported box set it supposed to offer the series collectively cheaper than the individual DVDs did.

I fully realize imported DVDs, box sets included, are going to be considerably more expensive.

But we are talking about an imported boxset, aren't we? This is the Japanese release of DRRR!! that happens to have the made-for-North-American-release dub tracks added.
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luffypirate85



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 2642

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I'll most likely be skipping this. I think Gunbuster 2 lands in the same month. One over ¥10k purchase is enough for me. My girlfriend loved the series so much that she *may* want to front the cash for it...who knows. I just want Nono.
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GokuMew2



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1498
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
GokuMew2 wrote:
Hm... Well, in Japan I would think prices need to be higher because they are covering the costs of the entire production of the series whereas in other countries, the licensor just needs to cover the cost of the license.


Not quite. A distributor outside of Japan also has to cover translation costs, dub costs (if there is one) as well as a number of other expenses related to releasing a title, including marketing.


Oh yeah, that too. ^^; Not quite sure why I forgot that. But in any case, those costs would still be less than having to pay all the staff who actually create the show from scratch.
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reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 845

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:47 pm Reply with quote
superdry wrote:
reanimator wrote:

Somehow many people here haven't gotten over the shock of anime being so expensive.


I just always like to point out that entertainment in Japan is generally more expensive compared to the US. I've spent a lot of money importing J-pop CDs for a good 6 years...and albums are much, much more expensive than the US.


Thank you for pointing that out. It's not just anime. High price also applies to music, live action, and foreign shows. Even the western shows like Fringe BD season 1 costs like 15,000 yen.

To my knowledge, only anime titles that are sold within 3,000 yen range always have been prime time, family friendly shows like Pokemon, Doraemon, Crayon Shinchan, and so on.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6145
Location: IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Fringe DVD is also available for less than 5000 yen.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2715

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:27 am Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
configspace wrote:

On the other hand, this indicates potential. The interest and the market is definitely there. There are Japanese fans who ARE willing to buy when the prices are significantly lower as I've cited here. In fact, reverse importation wouldn't be considered a problem if this were not the case.


Not only would they not have to worry about reverse importation anymore, they wouldn't have to worry about making any profit at all. The extremely cheap first Volume of Nana with only 1 episode on it was a gimmick to generate buzz, sold at 777 yen for 77 days. In and of itself, it almost certainly lost them money, which isn't something most businesses shoot for if they'd like to remain in business. Meanwhile the remaining higher priced volumes were probably decently profitable, despite much lower sales. Vastly increased sales are worthless if to get those sales you have to price something so low that you're selling it at a loss.

If you do the math, you'll see that it actually made a bit more money than the much more expensive second volume.
63,284 x ¥707 = ¥44,741,788
10,977 x ¥3800 = ¥41,712,600

Of course you have to balance pricing and expectation and market size. As I pointed out previously, the market of potential buyers is already there (from viewers and manga fans and reverse importers). The big hits don't need the lower pricing at all. But again, that conversely points to the problem of all the rest, where the issue is one of titles competing with one another and having some decent sales vs hardly having any at all.

ArsenicSteel wrote:
Quote:
Rather than comparing between different cultures, countries or environments, instead imagine within the same environment or place if EVERY melon costs $120.


That would be a perfect environment, like a vacuum, for proving theories but like all perfect for class environments, they don't represent what happens when real world variables are introduced.
You can't take the 'real' out of real world just to make your comment prettier.

Not sure what you're pointing out. I'm responding to his analogy with a correction of a more proper one. That rather than having a variation in the price of melons depending on quality (whether objective or subjective), i.e. market elasticity, the reality of the situation with anime in Japan is like having all melons priced that high.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:04 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

If you do the math, you'll see that it actually made a bit more money than the much more expensive second volume.
63,284 x ¥707 = ¥44,741,788
10,977 x ¥3800 = ¥41,712,600


That's gross revenue. You really think that's all that matters? Nobody "made" that much money. I said "profitable." What do you think the profit margin on the first volume was? After accounting for production costs, material costs, the retailer's cut, the distributor's cut, and transportation costs, just how much profit do you think was left over on each copy of the first volume sold? It was a loss leader available at that price for a limited time to spur interest. It wasn't meant to be profitable, and it almost certainly wasn't.

The gigantic flaw in your reasoning is that you seem to assume that gross sales are all that matter, while not taking into account that there are plenty of costs that needed to be accounted for, including production and material costs that don't budge an inch while you go about slashing prices.
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ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:47 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Not sure what you're pointing out. I'm responding to his analogy with a correction of a more proper one. That rather than having a variation in the price of melons depending on quality (whether objective or subjective), i.e. market elasticity, the reality of the situation with anime in Japan is like having all melons priced that high.


The analogy was just used to help answer Actar's question in terms other than anime to make understanding the reactions of outsiders peering in a bit more clear. It did that just fine even if it needed a little tweaking. As an analogy it's not going to be a perfect representation of the situation it is trying to simplify.
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:48 am Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:

Thank you for pointing that out. It's not just anime. High price also applies to music, live action, and foreign shows. Even the western shows like Fringe BD season 1 costs like 15,000 yen.


Japan also has a large rental and 2nd hand store market where people can get their entertainment cheaper than retail. That helps for people who don't have or want to spend the money.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2715

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:22 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
configspace wrote:

If you do the math, you'll see that it actually made a bit more money than the much more expensive second volume.
63,284 x ¥707 = ¥44,741,788
10,977 x ¥3800 = ¥41,712,600


That's gross revenue. You really think that's all that matters? Nobody "made" that much money. I said "profitable." What do you think the profit margin on the first volume was? After accounting for production costs, material costs, the retailer's cut, the distributor's cut, and transportation costs, just how much profit do you think was left over on each copy of the first volume sold? It was a loss leader available at that price for a limited time to spur interest. It wasn't meant to be profitable, and it almost certainly wasn't.

The gigantic flaw in your reasoning is that you seem to assume that gross sales are all that matter, while not taking into account that there are plenty of costs that needed to be accounted for, including production and material costs that don't budge an inch while you go about slashing prices.

It's ridiculous to claim it's a loss leader. The fact that it made more would already compensate for the slightly increased cost of materials. The transportation will hardly change. The distribution network wouldn't change and the only thing that would is a couple extra boxes of dvds to the retailers. Even if net profits turns out to be slightly less, that is still in no way a "loss leader".

As for the cuts, you're acting as if they are all fixed money cuts per item. Those profits are proportional--divvied out by percentage, not fixed per-unit costs like materials; and a percentage on the cost of each item that the retailer will take is equivalent to a percentage on the sum total, so it IS relevant to compare gross revenue, since the extra fixed material costs is still relatively small. In fact, economies of scale work in your favor for material costs as you always get discounts the more discs you stamp, the more inserts you print (both are usually discounted proportionally per thousand ordered) and likewise for shipping.

Your line of reasoning would basically preclude the profitability of the entire higher volume western market for everything (not just anime). Even Aniplex doesn't agree with that, else they'd attempt to price everything at JP prices rather than just a couple.

In any case, my point was to use the Nana to simply illustrate how the elasticity exists but the problem is that is not being explored. The requirements to be profitable for the rest of the titles not in the top 10 or 20 are far more relevant to overall gross sales and pricing. The small per unit production costs are virtually not worth considering when you are hardly making any sales to even begin to approach profitability due to pricing yourself too high to begin with!
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