Forum - View topicNEWS: Warner Develops Live-Action Film of Tite Kubo's Bleach Manga
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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They don't flock in large number because giving the benefit of the doubt to an industry that has displayed a proved pattern of being bad goes against human nature. It logical and reasonable to be weary of everything after a person is past their child-like days of innocence.
Where is this 'totally faithful or bust' claim being made? I don't see it anywhere but in your arguments and it's there just so you can defeat it. As far as having nothing to compare it to that's where word of mouth comes in. You claim that positive word of mouth will attracts new bodies to the movie but let us not ignore the effects of negative word of mouth. Pretending that this movie is as bad as Dragonball Evolution - there will be countless websites and discussions about how badly thought out the changes were, both before seeing the movie and after. That negativity will eventually find it's way to potential movie goers(non-fans) who might decide that the comparisons and reception is enough to not bother seeing the film for themselves. Of course, there will be people who will want to see a train-wreck but they are far in the minority.
And for thousandth damn time, that attitude doesn't work for Hollywood movies adapted from anime or manga. You can keep smoking on your hypotheticals, coulds, and wider audience potential but history proves that how Hollywood usually does it, fails. Time and time again.
That really makes me wonder why Hollywood bothers at all. It seems contradictory to me for Hollywood to note how popular the stories they go after are and yet belief everything about is so unfamiliar that it needs a total renovation. |
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Sweetre15
Posts: 17 |
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Originally he did say that but apparently Viz productions managed to reach some kind of ground with him and he changed his mind...read this: http://manga.about.com/od/mangaeditorsinterviews/a/Interview-Jason-Hoffs-VIZ-Productions-Bleach-Movie_2.htm |
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Sweetre15
Posts: 17 |
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Also while I know that things are going to be changed to a degree, this is the territory it should cover
- Ichigo can see ghosts and hollows since he was a child and that he can never allow himself to stand by while people are being hurt due to the death of mom - The sight of Rukia fighting off another hollow and then her later coming to his room to explain the basis of what a Soul reaper does - Ichigo borrowing Rukia's Zanpakuto and becoming a soul reaper to protect his family by killing his first hollow but only show the missions that help explain more about being a soul reaper and the hollows. - Rukia becoming Ichigo's mentor and showing him the ropes of being a Soul reaper due to her power being drained - The introduction of Orhime, Chad, and Uryu but not necessarily covering all the territory of their episodes, however, the catch would be to introduce Uryu as a character relatively early in the film as already being a student since he kind of came out of nowhere in the anime. - Ichigo visiting his mother's grave for the anniversary of her death and the Grand fisher battle as well as the Rukia getting a warning from another Soul reaper. - Rukia's growing attachment to Ichigo and his friends due to spending so much time with them. - A compressed version of the Quincy vs Soul Reaper rivalry and the hollow contest that causes the Menos Grande invasion and Orihime/Chad's gaining of powers. So They can add various changes to enhance the story for cinema purposes and still be true enough to the source to not alienate the fanbase. |
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Gon*Gon
Posts: 679 |
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I don't know...while that sounds like a pretty solid plot for a movie, Bleach was a pretty sub par series until they finally got to the Soul Society arc when they start introducing stuff like shikai and bankai's along with a massive cast of quirky characters.
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Mawdryn
Posts: 240 Location: St. Louis, MO. U.S.A. |
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Sounds more like a personal problem. Others keep an open mind or reserve judgement until they see the finished product.
Are you fairly new to the internet?
Denial
Huh?
Duh! That's what I've been saying. It begins even before the first second of footage is ever filmed, though.
So your argument is that Hollywood shouldn't even try? That unless it's something that's basically a word-for-word, scene-by-scene duplicate of the original material that there can never be a successful live-action movie of one in America?
You're just wallowing in a negative attitude that dismisses any potential whatsoever that an adaptation could be even remotely successful one day. Movies in general are risky projects. For every one blockbuster, there are at least a dozen flops that fail because they didn't click with general audiences for whatever reason. But it's in Hollywood's nature to keep trying time and time again because when movies do click with the mainstream, they tend to pay off.
By its very nature, an adaptation is a different version of an existing story--either for a different format and/or audience. It's one way that Hollywood creates new movies. How faithful the adaptation is to the original depends on how well the original aspects resonate with the main audience the particular film is going after. That generally is a large American or Western audience for big budget Hollywood movies, so changes are made to cater for that audience. But it's not an exact science, in fact, it's largely guesswork on the part of the writers and producers to determine how much of the original material will or won't work for their intended audience. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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So truths about human nature and conditioned responses are only truths if you say so. Pavlov can train a dog to drool at the sound of a bell but people aren't thinking critically by expecting bad Hollywood adaptations of anime given Hollywood's history, as you say, they are being closed-minded.
I am versed enough to know that when someone replies to a question with a question it means they don't have answer.
That's why I said "both before seeing the movie and after."
My argument is that the attitude to aimlessly go after a wide audience is why those adaptations inevitably fail. It's not that Hollywood should stop trying but rather Hollywood should make films for a specific target audience and play to that groups known interests. Again, who the hell is saying something needs to be a word for word, carbon copy of the source material? I've asked you this before because I know for a damn fact I have not said that but you keep adding it into our discussion as if it is relevant to my statements.
I am merely saying that any negative emotions Hollywood gets for just mentioning live action adaptations is well earned at the moment. I have not dismissed that this film could work. In fact, I was going to reply to Sweetre15 to say I like his ideas and contribute that either having the plot be about the Grand Fisher/stopping at saving Rukia or doing a prequel about Quincys would be potential good for the movie. None of your comments however inspire much in the way of fanboy brainstorming. You have to fail a lot on your way to the big pay off is a gambler's fallacy and making movies is not gambling.
The fun thing is you've said, time and time again, in this topic that the main audience don't know the property. So at this point nothing can possibly be resonating with the main audience. I would even argue that if the main audience is not primarily composed of the existing fanbase then there's no main audience yet.
Why bother with with renovating an already popular story when Hollywood has staff on hand that can create a new, new story unfettered from the eyes of an existing fanbase. You can't target a general audience, who you don't know, and expect to retrofit a story to appeal to people of undetermined interests. You keep referring to the American audience as some ubiquitous hivemind but the American audience is composed of many different groups and fanbases. Movies, well-made movies, don't attempt to target the American audience as whole. Movies with a clear target audience succeed and movies that try to please everyone fail.
I didn't ask what was the nature of adaptations. I've already demonstrating an understanding that some changes have to be made because of the differences in format. What I did say was that it is contrary to go after anime/manga because they are popular and at the same time say the people who made it popular are not the ones the adaptation is intended for. |
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Mawdryn
Posts: 240 Location: St. Louis, MO. U.S.A. |
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What are you talking about? It's merely a case of not always assuming that something will be bad, nothing more.
See above.
Apparently not, since it was a serious question. You really aren't familar with how fandom generally reacts to stuff like this?
Then why are you arguing with me then?
That is generally how small independent films are done, but not so for big budget tentpole films.
Once again, why are you arguing with me then? Since I am merely talking about why Hollywood makes changes to source material. If you didn't have a problem with that, then we shouldn't be having this discussion.
See, I disagree with that. I don't think it's well earned due to the very nature of Hollywood to frequently produce flops before producing a hit.
Probably because I wasn't doing that in the first place, but merely giving the idea of a Bleach movie the benefit of the doubt. Pay attention.
Making movies is definitely gambling. There have been many big budget movies that have failed even with top talent connected to them. There is no real guarantee that any big Hollywood movie will be a hit, so there's always a certain level of risk involved. At best, there are some movies that are more likely to be a big hit but it's never known for sure until the box office reports come in.
No, don't play dumb. You know full well what is and isn't well-known in mainstream American society. Hollywood producers try to make unfamillar properties appealing to that audience by either including more things that are familiar to them, altering certain concepts, or by playing up the aspects they think will appeal to them the most.
And I would disagree with that too. I think Hollywood producers have a certain audience in mind they want to appeal to and tailor adaptations towards that audience. They want the existing fanbase, but they're also mindful that it has to appeal to more than them if they truly want it to be a big hit.
Because adaptations have always been a part of Hollywood. It's as simple as that. Hollywood has always taken popular stories--be it from books, TV shows, and even previous movies--and repackaged them for a bigger audience than the existing fanbase.
I disagree with all but one thing you said there because I think it's otherwise the basic formula that Hollywood producers and studios have been using from the very beginning.
If you truly did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Which is something I never said, merely that these movies aren't made just for them. |
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thaivuN
Posts: 64 |
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The only way I would ever see Warner start filming Bleach is if shinigamis are turned into Men in Black lol.
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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The same thing you were talking about, basic human nature and truths. You said that it's a simple truth that existing fans mostly treat this announcements negatively. I simply elaborated on proven reasoning that such reaction comes from being conditioned to expect a certain outcome. But my statement isn't right, to you, because it doesn't just blame the fans for not being open to anything and everything.
I was pointing out that you had no reason to add what you did to that particular quote, as the point you made in the reply was already present in my statement. If you feel the need to chain-quote me, either agree or disagree don't just repeat it.
Irrelevant. My sentiment is about Hollywood improving reception towards anime/manga adaptations. How Hollywood currently works is the reason for the complaint.
This argument is fueled from your over-generalizations, fictitious arguments, useless chain-quoting, and you playing devil's advocate. There is also the little matter you evading my questions that's dragging this out.
You'd be wrong for disagreeing. In your gambler's fallacy it would require that humans either ignore or forget each instance of failure along with not notice that there has been no "big-hit" when it comes to anime/manga live action films from Hollywood. Self evidently, humans do take the past into account when forming thoughts.
Then don't accuse me of "wallowing in a negative attitude" and dismissing "any potential whatsoever that an adaptation could be even remotely successful one day." in our discussion when I've made it abundantly clear that I expect/accept changes due to format and I have not claimed that the Bleach movie has no potential at success. All I have been doing to justifying that announcements like these have low expectations because of past failures and that, in my opinion, the reception to movies like Bleach can be improved placing more value in source material rather than the changes to appeal to the undetermined needs of a general audience.
But it wasn't chance or serendipity that caused them to fail. How the story is executed by the actors and director is more important than how many 'sploshuns or big names can fit on screen at one time. Losing site of that makes bad movies.
Hollywood producers have shown that they don't know what needs to be played up or down when it comes to anime/manga properties. Their assumptions have led to failure every time. Assuming that the general public doesn't know about certain aspects of a work is fine but producers are also assuming that certain aspects unless localized would turn the general public off, that's demeaning. Repeating familiar concepts and removing unfamiliar ones is an endless loop that doesn't increase the general public's cultural I.Q. All that does is reinforce stereotypes and hinder change.
This thought process is proven to fail.
Sorry but for this conversation I am generally referring to foreign works, specifically, anime and manga. Hollywood adapting domestic works has been a lot more successful.
If I truly didn't think that then I wouldn't have made those comments. This conversation is not about my lack of understanding on how Hollywood works but your refusal to recognize that Hollywood standard practices don't work for anime and manga live action films.
I don't think I implied you said that. I was just clarifying my position on how counter-productive Hollywood producers' actions are when it comes to anime/manga adaptations. Last edited by ArsenicSteel on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mawdryn
Posts: 240 Location: St. Louis, MO. U.S.A. |
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Whatever, if it makes you happy, I guess. Doesn't change anything.
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UltimaShadowfax
Posts: 288 |
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That's not even what I was referring to. The film was an absolute train wreck. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15305 |
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Did anyone else see Safe House? I was probably in the bathroom at the time, but the end credits noted an appearance of Bleach media.
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Strawberryelle
Posts: 43 |
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eyah... I highly doubt this will ever be made. Its going to be stuck in production hell forever.
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tadpolily
Posts: 7 |
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I'm kind of skeptical that this will even get out of the planning stages (seeing as how Akira hasn't had much luck lately)
I remember there being talk about a live action Bleach movie before though. My only problem with live action anime adaptions is that the directors would have to use a whole lot of creative license while still retaining enough similarities to the anime while still making a movie believable (and not over the top like Speed Racer) and realistic for the majority of American audiences to be able to take seriously. On a positive note, at least the guys interested in this are actual anime fans so they would know where we are coming from and how anime fans felt when it came to anime adaptions. I still hold hope for anime adaptions... |
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Sweetre15
Posts: 17 |
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http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/03/the-f...t-bleach-movie
Apparently the plan is to keep the story set in Japan.....one cool point now they need to give us reasons to not dock any off. “I love ‘Bleach!’ ‘Bleach’ is awesome,” laughed Mazeau. “It’s been a long process getting to write the script. Getting the rights from the Japanese company that owned them was a complicated process. But early on we set down with Tite Kubo the creator and the publisher of the series, and we had a long meeting, making sure we’re respectful to the property. Nobody wants to, well… Let’s just say that if you enjoyed [the live-action] ‘Dragonball Z’ movie, that’s great, but I thought it was a noble effort that ultimately didn’t succeed. That’s what we’re trying to avoid. We want to make sure this movie lives up to what the manga is.” “I’m currently working on ‘Bleach’ and the idea is to set it in Japan and really be respectful to the source material,” he added. “It’s an amazing story. I’ve been shorthanding it as an ‘action-adventure Sixth Sense,’ but obviously on a bigger canvas than that. So I’m incredibly excited about that. It’s a good one.” |
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