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Hectotane
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:48 pm
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RyanSaotome wrote: | You need to remember that when it comes down to it, the anime industry is a business. Their goal is to make money, not to make creative anime. And lets face it... "Artsy" and "Creative Anime" are typically aimed at the non buyer market. It doesn't matter how good your anime is if the people who watch it won't buy it.
So like any industry, you need to focus on the buying market, and that is the otaku. |
That may be true in Japan and Asia...
I saw the lot of Suncoasts and FYE stores shut down; their walls and shelves had a large block of animu, btw. Bandai decides to leave and half of the remaining anime licensors decides to sell the lot of anime subbed only.
And usually, during the time of economic crisis, the hardest hit is usually "luxuries." Luxuries like "animu."
Not to say that you're wrong, but I said this more often than I'd care to admit: AMERICA IS NOT JAPAN
Or, to make a whole paragraph about it:
Group "A" will spend tons of money on cartoons that feature sexy women (and the self-insert nobodies that represent said group of people) because of whatever failing they haven't recovered from in their early lives. Group "B" will spend tons of money on toys that look cool(, pose, hold guns and transform) because they're updates of what was cool during their early lives (and while they're not physically attractive, they can still hold a conversation with people of the opposite gender). Group "A" is NOT Group "B" and people should stop believing and thinking that "Group 'A' is Group 'B'."
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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
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Hectotane wrote: |
Megiddo wrote: | But people are buying mean-spirited garbage like HS DxD, Zombie Deathcar (to a lesser extent), Guilty Crown, and Baka Test 2. Because that's what otaku want to see. |
I meant "people beyond the otaku base."
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Are you referring to foreign sales or Japanese sales? Because, as Justin noted, home video in Japan is extremely niche, especially with anime since it has the highest price of entertainment. The people who buy anime on DVD/BD are otaku. I'm talking about late-night anime here, not movies or Ghibli or Pokemon or whatever. The people who buy late-night anime on DVD/BD are the otaku. And it is only them. There is no casual fanbase that also buys anime. That is why if something doesn't pander to otaku and/or fujoshi (female otaku) then it will not succeed in terms of home video sales. Why do you think Another is one of the lowest on the charts in terms of pre-orders? It's not because it's a bad show.
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1684
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:54 pm
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superdry wrote: | Speaking of which, Justin or anyone else who might know - Do store that carry DVD/BDs/media in Japan also do massive returns to the publisher from time to time? |
Japanese industry wholesale returns are generally capped at 5%, so while it's a minor issue, it's hardly the huge problem it became in R1 land.
Do pay attention to what samuelp says, it is true. Quite a few shows are made purely as marketing for the original work, so taking a loss on the production itself isn't a HUGE deal.
And yeah, dubs are an endangered species and have been for a while, but it's the general industry consensus that they're still the only hope for reaching a broader market. People just need to realize that, with few DVD sales to pay for them, the $7-10,000 per episode it costs to produce a dub looks like a pretty risky investment for 90% of the shows that get released. In very mainstreamable shows it's a no-brainer, but for otaku-only stuff? You'll never see that money again...
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Hectotane
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:56 pm
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Shenl742 wrote: | FUNi is pushing Princess Jellyfish because fan reaction to it through polls and streams was really strong. So...FUNi's giving the fans what they want, and hoping they'll be payed back for it. |
I would love to see the numbers within their polls one day. No, I take it back.
I wanna say that it's FUNi's way of punishing us "illegal downloaders" for not participating in their channels and using their streams. Even though we bought the lot of their anime anyway and doing things someone else's way sounds like "a dictatorship on a good day..."
I put more money towards Media Blasters anyway because they can atleast license and dub ADULT ANIME, but hey.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:58 pm
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Quote: | In very mainstreamable shows it's a no-brainer, but for otaku-only stuff? You'll never see that money again... |
Which only makes it more annoying for Otaku like me who like the "Otaku stuff" but also like dubs.
Also, I'm getting somewhat tired of dubs being considered as just marketing devices.
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Charred Knight
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:58 pm
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jsevakis wrote: |
And yeah, dubs are an endangered species and have been for a while, but it's the general industry consensus that they're still the only hope for reaching a broader market. People just need to realize that, with few DVD sales to pay for them, the $7-10,000 per episode it costs to produce a dub looks like a pretty risky investment for 90% of the shows that get released. In very mainstreamable shows it's a no-brainer, but for otaku-only stuff? You'll never see that money again... |
I think marketing is more important than dubs, especially considering that people still expect dubs to be a copy of the Japanese version. The problem is that Funimation is really the only company that actually seems to know how to market to someone who has never seen a show before.
Last edited by Charred Knight on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Melanchthon
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:59 pm
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I am one of those crazy collectors that is still buying physical copies. In fact, I wouldn't mind an increase in price (Madoka is about my upper limit) as long as I got some bonus in return (and not a dub, no one watches dubs anymore). Somewhat strangely, and perhaps a sign of my mental instability, at least half of the discs I've bought I haven't even watched. Generally I've already seen the fansubs, and I buy to collect the series, not to watch it again. I'm not buying for the privilege of watching, I'm buying for the psychic benefits of ownership. So yeah, you'll can keep your fancy streaming video, and I'll stick with the DVDs until the USS Funimation finally goes down.
And I never believed in the whole "reverse-import" crap anyway. It doesn't make sense, because there are no lost sales. Think about it this way. I'm a huge Tigers fan. I want to buy a Verlander jersey. I can get a cheap foreign knockoff for $30 bucks, or I can drop $195 on an authentic one from MLB. Because I'm a huge fan, I want the authentic one, because it proves my devotion to the fandom. The only reason why I would buy the knockoff is because I can't afford the real one. Similarly, the only reason a otaku would reverse import is because he can't afford to buy the 'real' version, and in that case he couldn't buy the real version anyway. The reverse import thing is a phantom. (Beside, why would anyone take the trouble to import an inferior copy that they could just pirate the whole thing for free?)
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Shenl742
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:59 pm
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Hectotane wrote: |
Shenl742 wrote: | FUNi is pushing Princess Jellyfish because fan reaction to it through polls and streams was really strong. So...FUNi's giving the fans what they want, and hoping they'll be payed back for it. |
I would love to see the numbers within their polls one day. No, I take it back.
I wanna say that it's FUNi's way of punishing us "illegal downloaders" for not participating in their channels and using their streams. Even though we bought the lot of their anime anyway and doing things someone else's way sounds like "a dictatorship on a good day..."
I put more money towards Media Blasters anyway because they can atleast license and dub ADULT ANIME, but hey. |
...What? Okay, buddy. You're officially not making sense here now.
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Saffire
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1255
Location: Iowa, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:01 pm
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Chagen46 wrote: |
Quote: | In very mainstreamable shows it's a no-brainer, but for otaku-only stuff? You'll never see that money again... |
Which only makes it more annoying for Otaku like me who like the "Otaku stuff" but also like dubs.
Also, I'm getting somewhat tired of dubs being considered as just marketing devices. |
What else would they be considered?
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7578
Location: Wales
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:10 pm
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I remember those rental prices - back before the first retail VHS tapes were released in the UK in '99, the only way to obtain Lexx anywhere in the world was these $70 rental tapes of the initial four movies from the US.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:11 pm
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Hectotane wrote: |
Shenl742 wrote: | FUNi is pushing Princess Jellyfish because fan reaction to it through polls and streams was really strong. So...FUNi's giving the fans what they want, and hoping they'll be payed back for it. |
I would love to see the numbers within their polls one day. No, I take it back.
I wanna say that it's FUNi's way of punishing us "illegal downloaders" for not participating in their channels and using their streams. Even though we bought the lot of their anime anyway and doing things someone else's way sounds like "a dictatorship on a good day..."
I put more money towards Media Blasters anyway because they can atleast license and dub ADULT ANIME, but hey. |
What are you even talking about?
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Charred Knight
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:17 pm
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RyanSaotome wrote: |
Hectotane wrote: |
Shenl742 wrote: | FUNi is pushing Princess Jellyfish because fan reaction to it through polls and streams was really strong. So...FUNi's giving the fans what they want, and hoping they'll be payed back for it. |
I would love to see the numbers within their polls one day. No, I take it back.
I wanna say that it's FUNi's way of punishing us "illegal downloaders" for not participating in their channels and using their streams. Even though we bought the lot of their anime anyway and doing things someone else's way sounds like "a dictatorship on a good day..."
I put more money towards Media Blasters anyway because they can atleast license and dub ADULT ANIME, but hey. |
What are you even talking about? |
Something involving a conspiracy theory involving Princess Jellyfish, a poll, and hardcore pornography.
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Hectotane
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:18 pm
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Megiddo wrote: | Why do you think Another is one of the lowest on the charts in terms of pre-orders? It's not because it's a bad show. |
Well, maybe it's because IT'S A BAD SHOW.
But who knows? Guilty Crown's A BAD SHOW but sold well past 10k units.
Let's not forget that the third Transformers movie sold incredibly well despite the fact that IT'S A BAD MOVIE.
Or why don't we all just say that anime would be a whole lot better if it wasn't infected by that dreaded virus known as "sheeple-itis." Think of it all in the terms of "rap industry;" look at all the MCs and rappers herein and wonder why the lot of 'em haven't even entered "I'm Rich, B####" status.
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1216
Location: Minnesota, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:21 pm
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Hectotane wrote: |
Megiddo wrote: | Why do you think Another is one of the lowest on the charts in terms of pre-orders? It's not because it's a bad show. |
Well, maybe it's because IT'S A BAD SHOW.
But who knows? Guilty Crown's A BAD SHOW but sold well past 10k units.
Let's not forget that the third Transformers movie sold incredibly well despite the fact that IT'S A BAD MOVIE.
Or why don't we all just say that anime would be a whole lot better if it wasn't infected by that dreaded virus known as "sheeple-itis." Think of it all in the terms of "rap industry;" look at all the MCs and rappers herein and wonder why the lot of 'em haven't even entered "I'm Rich, B####" status. |
You do realize what you may think is a bad show/movies, others don't think the same?
Guilty Crown being a bad show is an opinion, not a fact no matter what way you look at it. Same goes for Bleach, one of the most hated and loved shows of all-time.
I for one find both of those shows good, but I know that my opinion of them being good isn't fact.
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Annf
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:31 pm
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Melanchthon wrote: | And I never believed in the whole "reverse-import" crap anyway. It doesn't make sense, because there are no lost sales. Think about it this way. I'm a huge Tigers fan. I want to buy a Verlander jersey. I can get a cheap foreign knockoff for $30 bucks, or I can drop $195 on an authentic one from MLB. Because I'm a huge fan, I want the authentic one, because it proves my devotion to the fandom. The only reason why I would buy the knockoff is because I can't afford the real one. Similarly, the only reason a otaku would reverse import is because he can't afford to buy the 'real' version, and in that case he couldn't buy the real version anyway. The reverse import thing is a phantom. |
This is true to some degree, but I think you're oversimplifying things.
First, you can't compare knockoff/bootlegs to official products. People still get satisfaction out of owning official products even if they got it on clearance, an official foreign release, a used copy, etc.
Second, Japanese otaku aren't made of money, and they have to choose which shows to buy and which to pass on. The existence of a cheap high-quality foreign release can make it easier to decide to skip buying one Japanese release in order to afford another. There's also an overall psychological effect of the mere existence of cheap foreign releases, feeling like you're being ripped off while foreign countries get the good deals, leeching off of you. You can google up examples of that complaint on Japanese forums pretty easily.
It's true that having the Japanese release comes with a certain amount of pride attached, but even then, if the releases were literally the same thing (imaginge the Fate/Zero box, with its current contents, was selling for $30 at RightStuf), you'd just feel dumb buying the Japanese release. So there's needs to be at lease some excuse to feel like you got some extra value from the more expensive one, something you can point to as meaningful.
But exactly how much extra value is required varies from person to person, so there will always be something missing/broken in low-cost releases (foreign or domestic), but exactly how much is enough is something sellers will constantly be worried about, constantly experimenting with.
Melanchthon wrote: | (Beside, why would anyone take the trouble to import an inferior copy that they could just pirate the whole thing for free?) |
Because they aren't pirates?
Although if you replace "pirate" with "save the TV recording on their DVR," then yeah, that's standard procedure. Only a few people buy videos, like Justin wrote.
Last edited by Annf on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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