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Shakugan no Shana III (Final) (TV).

Did I miss something? I was under the impression that the spoiler[rule was retained and that Yūji consciously decided not to reverse it even though Bel Peol remarked that it was well within his power. Of course, this would make Yūji's intent to leave all of his history behind to convince the Denizens over millennia not to eat humans an entirely redundant decision, but it's better than Xanadu itself being as such.]

I suppose that a lot of people miss a lot of things about this show.

Denizens no longer eating humans, and denizens coexisting with humans in peace are not the same thing. There are plenty of conflicts that can arise between humans and Denizens that don't require that Denizens be able to consume Power of Existence.

Last edited by Gatherum on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

I was watching the SS-Eclipse releases up until around episode 21 or so, at which point, I switched to Commie since the translation seemed less awkward somehow. I am not fluent in Japanese by any measure, but I am fluent in English. Wink

Are there any known problems with Commie's release(s)?

Eh, not too familiar with the various fansubs since I've been using the official nico nico subs for the most part. But on the anime suki forum there was some discussion about a fansub for the final episode that had multiple errors, spoiler[such as saying that Yuji becomes a human at the end, when in fact he becomes a unique existence that is not a torch but certainly not human.]

They didn't mention names of the subs though.

EDIT: Ok, I've seen the translation MaxSouth was using I think, and it was the one that apparently contains a lot of errors. But even ignoring that, the implication I got from the context of Yuji's words wasn't that spoiler[the "Law doesn't work for some reason that is never explained, and we're just going to throw this out there randomly" but rather, that the Denizens have been consuming humans for so long that there simply being a rule that bans them from doing so isn't enough for true co-existence.]

Dear MaxSouth, what part in the words "time stamp" do you fail to understand?

Also, MadScientist has just explained what Yuuju was actually talking about.

Furthermore, you are taking Denizens for a uniform mass with a singular will when, in fact, there are most diverging opinions among them. spoiler[There are those that have grown attached to humans but there are also those who will continue preying on them simply for fun of it, rule or not (to elaborate, because I gather you are prone to misunderstand this part unless I do, I am not talking about devouring humans as they had in this world - that is impossible in Xanadu - but simply hunting/killing - after all, Denizens remain superior predators with supernatural abilities).]

The rule is still there. spoiler[Shana asks Yuji wether or not he really had to go to Xanadu and wether or not the rule wasnt good enough for him on it's own. She wouldn't say that if it had been negated. Start watching from 14;00 onwards. The question is however, wether or not the rule is absolute and stops Denizens from eating humans or wether or not it is just a rule and there to be broken.

Personally I think the former since the series seems to place empahsis on the relationship between Human and denizens/flame hazes rather than the fact that they eat them. The aim is to get them living with each other peacefully. Justus represents this dream quite litterally, being the child of a human and Denizen.

Shana still seems to think that the rule is there so yeah it probably is to be honest. Even if it isn't the denizens are said to be of one mind on the whole when it comes to wanting to live with humans peacefully. That's pretty much the whole point when you consider Sabrac.Shana,Pheles and Margery's relationship focuses over the course of the seasons. They are all emotionally involved with humans in some way. The development of Hecate throughout the season points to this being the focus and the end of this season pretty much says ' It's not set in stone but pretty damn close', when it comes to resolving the issue between humans and tomogara. The will to live with humans is there, they just need to be shown how. This is where yuji,Shana and Justus come in with the new world. Lead by example and all that. Basically I agree with Ferian and mad Scientist in his/her understanding of the show. Basically the rule is there but that the rift between Flame hazes,humans and denizens isnt something that is just going to go away all at once. There will still be some denizens that stay behind and there will still be some Denizens that can't work out how live peacefully.

The only plot hole here for me though that bugs me is the fact that Yuji chooses to leave behind his family easilly and how despite becoming human again, he still leaves. Having said this, he did show in either the first season or the second that he was always prepared to leave to make sure his home city stayed safe. This or the fact that Yoshida wont be in the new world Smile

He was still flying around with his powers despite being human again aswell. I am a little confused on that point but it doesnt really bother me all that. .

It was quite sad in some regards with the way that everyone was split up.]

The line in question is being looked in the wrong light in someways aswell. The line is basically being used to show that Yuji doesnt want to forgive himself and doesnt think that what he has done is enough when in reality he has done quite alot. He feels he needs to atone and punish himself and Shana and everyone else is pretty much telling him other wise. I felt that this line was more of an indication of how hard yuji is being on himself rather than some big revalation/plot hole. You have to read between the lines more maxsouth. As others have said the emphasis on what he said is more on the fact that he feels the rule wont be enough on it's own to coexisist peacefully with humans. They need to be told and taught aswell.

Regarding translations, here's a post from the anime suki forums about the two sub versions out. They aren't mentioned by name (I'm not sure that's allowed on anime suki... actually, not sure we're really supposed to do that here either) but you should be able to tell which fansub you ended watching by this post.

I disagree about giving Yuji a break. He wanted to change the world, and got many people killed to achieve his ends.

So what did we get out of all those deaths:

spoiler[Shana is no safer than she was before.

Our would may be a tad safer, because some denizens move to the new world.

This new world doesn't seem like a paradise either, because the denizens really have nothing stopping them.]

Humans in our world, really have a hard time maintaining sustainable fish harvesting levels, over fishing is a real problem.

In the fictional world, even Vampires have problems with sustainable human harvests.

The Vegans and PETA really have had no success in changing us omnivores.

spoiler[Why on Earth would the Denizen's want to change centuries or eon's worth of human life force eating.

Really, the line that highlights FAILURE, is his need to leave family and friends to go to the new world, to enforce this rule.]

So, if the whole goal of this whole tragedy was to give Shana a safer world to live in, spoiler[it was a total failure], with the cost in blood unimaginable.

If you are going to get your friends killed, and quite possibly Shana too, the rewards have better be worth it. So I have no pity for Yuji. spoiler[If you dance with the devil, you better be able to pay the price. Yuji had better remember everyone he got killed, because of his actions. He'd better spend the rest of his life fixing this problem.]

But the writers should spend eternity in torment for their mangling of Yuji's character. Or at least call this season a reimagining or reboot.

Did anyone else feel the creators just forced a plot line just to give us another season to watch? I loved watching season one, but then onwards everything went over my head from the plot to the massive amount of names and spells that appears once and never mentioned again. It feels very much like harry potter movies where tons of events happen but none of them attribute anything worthwhile to the main plot.

So much effort being put into making a beautiful anime but wasted on a plot so tepid and mundane. This could be that I'm not a fan of the manga/LN and as such cannot understand the complete awesomeness of this anime... I will hope that is the case.

@TarTarkas

There are quite a few things I think you are missing.

First of all, why is spoiler[Xanadu a paradise for Denizens? Well, consider their alternatives.

They got the Crimson World, which has been implied to be a pretty horrible place. It also has no humans, which the Denizens are interested in.

They got the human world, which rejects them as unnatural existences and forces them to consume Power of Existence in order to manifest themselves. Which leads to them eating humans, being attacked by Flame Hazes, and also has the potential to destroy reality if things go really bad.

They got Xanadu, which is a world that is basically like the human world, but it is designed for them and accepts them. Oh, it's also overflowing with Power of Existence, so they can perform all sorts of things, all the while finally having a chance to try interacting with humans without having to be parasites that feast upon them.]

Is it any wonder that they prefer Xanadu?

Now, is the human world safer after all this? spoiler[Yes. It's true that not every Denizen necessarily went to Xanadu, but I kind of got the impression that Margery was bringing that up largely as an excuse to explain why she'd stay behind with Keisaku. After all, as explained above, Xanadu is a paradise for Denizens. It is a world created by the manifest wishes of the Denizens that were so strong they called forth the God of Creation. I think it's fair to say that almost all the Denizens went to Xanadu.

Those handful that stayed behind will soon learn that it is in their best interest to leave, considering there are still powerful Flame Hazes like Sophie around, and well, there's no good reason for any Denizens to stay.

Since there will no longer be a bunch of Denizens recklessly consuming humans and creating distortions, the whole "threat to all of existence" thing is pretty much gone. So I'd say humans are definitely safer.]

Now, something you didn't specifically bring up but that was mentioned by others, is why are spoiler[a bunch of Flame Hazes going to Xanadu? Well, the answer to that seems fairly obvious to me. Curiosity. Hatred for Denizens and a desire to follow them. A genuine desire to protect humans (since even if Denizens can't eat them they can still cause problems for them). A desire for unlimited Power of Existence for themselves. Some or all of the above. Take your pick.]

Of course, this meansspoiler[ that there are potentially future conflicts in Xanadu between Denizens and Flame Hazes. Even if the Flame Hazes hadn't gone, there would still be the potential for Denizens to abuse humans.] So does this mean Yuji failed?

spoiler[No. First of all, the mission of a Flame Haze is to protect the balance and stop the distortions caused by eating humans, not protect humans themselves. But one could say that Shana, at least now, does care about humans and wouldn't be willing to let a bunch of them suffer just because the threat to the world itself is gone. So does that mean Yuji failed?

Once again, no. It means Yuji isn't done yet, which is something he said to Bel Peol. For him, things are just starting. That is why he intended to go to Xanadu, alone if needed, and create a peaceful co-existence between Denizens and Humans.

Before, such a co-existence was simply not possible. There was no way to bring it about with the way the worlds were. Now, it is possible, even if it may be difficult to achieve. Yuji intends to create it, even if it takes thousands of years. He believed he could do it, suffering alone if need be, and only then after he has created co-existence between Denizens and humans (and thus at last succeeded in allowing Shana a peaceful life) would he have any right to be with her.

Shana disagreed, and clearly wants to work with him to achieve peace. So yes, Yuji has not (yet) allowed Shana a peaceful life. But there is at least now a path open that makes such a thing possible in the future, when before there was no hope.]

The plot is so messy that it required sheets of explanations, and even then the story is pointless -- because those explanations seem quite stretched.

Just one example: spoiler[Denizens supposedly (according to one theory about what was said in the anime -- among many theories) can not eat people, but yet somehow might harm them?

There was never example of any interaction between Denizens and people, besides the latter being eaten by the former. Also, the anime says that Denizens love people already. So why those 1225 Flame Hazes are needed in the copy of the world?]

Nothing is really explained.

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Forum - View topicShakugan no Shana III (Final) (TV).

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Shakugan no Shana III (Final) (TV).