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Mr. sickVisionz
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 1211
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 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:59 am |
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| Zalis116 wrote: | | Ingraman wrote: |
I won't buy Bakemonogatari without a Blu-ray release.
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Yes, because SHAFT slideshows and walls of text definitely demand HD to be properly enjoyed. Not to mention all that endless talking needs the insane bitrates that only lossless audio can provide. |
The text would look noticeably better in HD actually. Why the hate for people wanting the show in the best quality available rather than the worst quality you can buy a series in? Especially a series as wonderfully animated and beautiful as Bakemonogatari? |
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Iscandar
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:43 am |
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| Zalis116 wrote: | | Ingraman wrote: |
I won't buy Bakemonogatari without a Blu-ray release.
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Yes, because SHAFT slideshows and walls of text definitely demand HD to be properly enjoyed. Not to mention all that endless talking needs the insane bitrates that only lossless audio can provide. |
Is there any way to promote comments? Because I want to promote this great comment.
I would love Bakemonogatari (I know, it is a long word; but please, don't use short cuts like Bake or Bakemo) on BD, but I'll take DVD. |
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Animegomaniac
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:44 am |
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| Animerican14 wrote: | | Plus, if a sub-only quality Bakemonogatari release would be noticeably cheaper than a sub + dub release... then yeah, I'd be down with that. |
What world do you hail from? Dubbed anime sells so sub only releases have to be priced higher or stuffed with crap or both, usually both now, to compenasate. Companies that tried to do otherwise have disappeared or diminished. Bandai's budget sub only releases, wow, just wow. "Well, it's cheaper if you compare it to dubbed anime VHS tapes from the late ninties. You get twice the episodes and episode select. Episode select." I love it when that gets listed as a special feature.
My feelings:
Another Shaft series has been licensed: Good.
It's Bakemonogatari, aka Talking, the series of Talks: The, uh, Series: Also good, if a little talky.
It has been licensed by Aniplex of America: Not good.
Apparently, I don't collect anime 'cause what I buy is 1) Dubbed 2) Affordable within reason and 3) Compact and that's not what AoA stands for.
Every time a series I'd love to buy gets licensed by either AoA or NIS, I feel an odd combination of regret and relief. Regret that a great series is being pushed into the "limited appeal/market" category that's only being sold directly and relief that now I have more money to buy anime that's already been released or will be released that conforms to my wants.
Why dubs as I imagine the other two are obvious? Because 1) I want to see a difference between Fansubs and the official release {The funny thing is I've been watching anime a lot longer than I've known about fansubs, even longer than fansubbing's been done but this has become my number one reason. It's a dumb, dumb world} 2) I want to see confidence in the product being licensed 3) Dubs are the best special feaure as they double the total length 4) Dubs even offer more point of existance to hardcopy DVDs/BDs than even officially commisioned streams which would be the same as the sub only release {occasionally minus some cartoon nudity but that doesn't bother me. I actually thought Yamada was funnier with the "demon seal"} 5) To rub purists the wrong way, "just because" 6) To give me further viewing options 7) For my interest in both Japanese and English speaking actors 8) For additional perspectives 9) For the extrapolation of cultural differences in spoken form...
Do I need to list more? I don't see the need for sub only releases anymore. I love it, there's more value in subbed only VHS tapes in ninties than in sub only DVDS and BDs now.
It's Irony, right? That's Irony... |
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Iscandar
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:50 am |
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| Mr. sickVisionz wrote: | | Zalis116 wrote: | | Ingraman wrote: |
I won't buy Bakemonogatari without a Blu-ray release.
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Yes, because SHAFT slideshows and walls of text definitely demand HD to be properly enjoyed. Not to mention all that endless talking needs the insane bitrates that only lossless audio can provide. |
The text would look noticeably better in HD actually. Why the hate for people wanting the show in the best quality available rather than the worst quality you can buy a series in? Especially a series as wonderfully animated and beautiful as Bakemonogatari? |
I also want the series in BD because of the higher quality. But if Aniplex USA decides to releases a cheapo DVD set(s), I'd still buy it because I rather have any R1 official subbed release of Bakemonogatari than nothing at all. |
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GenesisOPX
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:53 am |
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| Any day, any price, pre ordering as soon as it's available. |
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angelmcazares
Subscriber
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Iscandar
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 am |
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| Animegomaniac wrote: | | Animerican14 wrote: | | Plus, if a sub-only quality Bakemonogatari release would be noticeably cheaper than a sub + dub release... then yeah, I'd be down with that. |
What world do you hail from? Dubbed anime sells so sub only releases have to be priced higher or stuffed with crap or both, usually both now, to compenasate. Companies that tried to do otherwise have disappeared or diminished. Bandai's budget sub only releases, wow, just wow. "Well, it's cheaper if you compare it to dubbed anime VHS tapes from the late ninties. You get twice the episodes and episode select. Episode select." I love it when that gets listed as a special feature.
My feelings:
Another Shaft series has been licensed: Good.
It's Bakemonogatari, aka Talking, the series of Talks: The, uh, Series: Also good, if a little talky.
It has been licensed by Aniplex of America: Not good.
Apparently, I don't collect anime 'cause what I buy is 1) Dubbed 2) Affordable within reason and 3) Compact and that's not what AoA stands for.
Every time a series I'd love to buy gets licensed by either AoA or NIS, I feel an odd combination of regret and relief. Regret that a great series is being pushed into the "limited appeal/market" category that's only being sold directly and relief that now I have more money to buy anime that's already been released or will be released that conforms to my wants.
Why dubs as I imagine the other two are obvious? Because 1) I want to see a difference between Fansubs and the official release {The funny thing is I've been watching anime a lot longer than I've known about fansubs, even longer than fansubbing's been done but this has become my number one reason. It's a dumb, dumb world} 2) I want to see confidence in the product being licensed 3) Dubs are the best special feaure as they double the total length 4) Dubs even offer more point of existance to hardcopy DVDs/BDs than even officially commisioned streams which would be the same as the sub only release {occasionally minus some cartoon nudity but that doesn't bother me. I actually thought Yamada was funnier with the "demon seal"} 5) To rub purists the wrong way, "just because" 6) To give me further viewing options 7) For my interest in both Japanese and English speaking actors 8) For additional perspectives 9) For the extrapolation of cultural differences in spoken form...
Do I need to list more? I don't see the need for sub only releases anymore. I love it, there's more value in subbed only VHS tapes in ninties than in sub only DVDS and BDs now.
It's Irony, right? That's Irony... |
I agree with some of the things you say, especially your desire to compare the English dub with the original Japanese voice track. But I think you are asking too much. I know that most English dub actors and actresses are really good, but I am not very impressed by their directors and script writers.
I appreciate that Funimation and Sentai have English dubs in their releases, but, like some people in this forum have already said, a proper English dub for Bakemonogatari would be hard to nail right. The only way will be to spend more money on the right personnel, but that would mean having to pay more for the release.
For a popular show like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, an English dub is a no brainer because many people would want to buy it. But for a niche series like Bakemonogatari, I doubt Aniplex USA, NIS (and probably Sentai) would throw a lot of money to satisfy the couple of thousands who want an English dub.
I might sound like a sub purist, but I am not. I enjoy English dubs a lot. In fact, I do not even know (or care) about how Spike Spiegel talks in Japanese. An English dub for Bakemonogatari would be interesting, but it is a dangerous proposition. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5423
Location: Arcana City
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:10 pm |
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| Quote: | | The text would look noticeably better in HD actually. Why the hate for people wanting the show in the best quality available rather than the worst quality you can buy a series in? Especially a series as wonderfully animated and beautiful as Bakemonogatari? |
I wouldn't call "let's spend this whole episode doing long-distance near-still shots of two characters talking in a park" wonderfully-animated. There's nothing wrong with wanting Blu-Ray, but I would say there's something wrong with refusing to support a release and a show one claims to love if Aniplex winds up unable to release BDs over here for whatever reason. And DVD is hardly "the worst" quality out there, at least not compared to bitrate-starved DRMed download-to-own files encoded in wmv or whatever.
And I enjoyed the series just fine via a fansub version that was a mix of 400p and 360p. The only downsides were the TV censoring and incomplete animation, but one would hope an R1 DVD-only release wouldn't use the broadcast version in the name of preventing reverse importation. Though it's not like we haven't seen that happen before...
| Animegomaniac wrote: |
Why dubs as I imagine the other two are obvious? Because 1) I want to see a difference between Fansubs and the official release {The funny thing is I've been watching anime a lot longer than I've known about fansubs, even longer than fansubbing's been done but this has become my number one reason. It's a dumb, dumb world) |
So you don't count easily-readable, accurately-translated, non-awkwardly-written, relatively error-free, producer-approved subs as a difference? Or if you're saying "I want there to be a difference between what I pay for, and what I can get for free online," consider this: if Bakemonogatari gets dubbed, there will eventually be downloadable dual-audio rips of whatever type of discs Aniplex winds up putting out. So in terms of audio options, there's no long-term difference between "what I can get for free" and "what I pay for." English dubs as a value-add are a myth; either the series itself is worth buying, or it isn't.
| angelmcazares wrote: | | The only way will be to spend more money on the right personnel, but that would mean having to pay more for the release. |
It's not really a matter of "the right personnel," but more a matter of spending enough time (and therefore money) to do enough takes to get lines right. |
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kaydub
Team Gurren
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 314
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:45 pm |
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| Zalis116 wrote: | | I wouldn't call "let's spend this whole episode doing long-distance near-still shots of two characters talking in a park" wonderfully-animated. |
Hmm, I can't say I disagree with you on that point specifically, but I think the artwork in Bakemonogatari is good enough to justify wanting a high-quality Blu-Ray release. Watching it in 1080p versus standard definition is a completely different experience IMO, and while there might not always be a lot happening on the screen, the artwork itself is beautifully done and is certainly one of the reasons the series is so popular.
Heck, I originally watched Bakemonogatari solely because I was so intrigued by the art style in a couple of high-res screenshots I had seen. I knew nothing about the show itself, but I felt compelled to watch it because I thought it looked amazing.
In any case, I'd love to see a Blu-Ray/DVD combo release at some point, I think that would be a best-case scenario. |
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potatochobit
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 837
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:50 pm |
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if you think DVD and Bluray make no difference probably own old televisions
DVDs have, you know, interlacing, and many upscalers introduce artifacts and sometimes blur and horrendous giant subtitles
I own the first copy of LE madoka but I have not picked up the second yet. I hope they get the prices down some on bakemonogatari. |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2054
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:38 pm |
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| Zalis116 wrote: |
English dubs as a value-add are a myth; either the series itself is worth buying, or it isn't.
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This seems like nonsense Zalis unless I'm misinterpreting you. Nothing can be a "myth" that's a matter of subjective value. You may see it as idiotic, since we'd be able to get the "dual audio" online, but whether or not this adds a reason for us to purchase it is entirely up to us.
In fact, even if I can get a dual audio rip online, if something gets dubbed I am personally more likely to buy it. Now you can claim that I'm the only one if you like, but you have no way to know this or to even estimate it. The reason I am more likely to buy it if it's dubbed is because I like the publisher more if they do that and so I'm a bit more loyal to them.
Now in regards to Bakemonogatari, I disagree with those who said a "bad dub is worse than no dub" because a "bad dub" is in the ears of the beholder. What is a bad dub for some can simply not be listened to by them, and for those who like it there is some advantage. I admit it would be extraordinarily difficult to provide Bakemonogatari with a dub, but even if the attempt failed for me I'd have respect given it's difficulty. Even then, given it's difficulty, the amount of gain in this case is probably not worth it.
Nevertheless, in other cases dubs are very desirable, and are worth far more than nothing to me. |
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angelmcazares
Subscriber
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Iscandar
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:59 pm |
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| Xanas wrote: | | Zalis116 wrote: |
English dubs as a value-add are a myth; either the series itself is worth buying, or it isn't.
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This seems like nonsense Zalis unless I'm misinterpreting you. Nothing can be a "myth" that's a matter of subjective value. You may see it as idiotic, since we'd be able to get the "dual audio" online, but whether or not this adds a reason for us to purchase it is entirely up to us.
In fact, even if I can get a dual audio rip online, if something gets dubbed I am personally more likely to buy it. Now you can claim that I'm the only one if you like, but you have no way to know this or to even estimate it. The reason I am more likely to buy it if it's dubbed is because I like the publisher more if they do that and so I'm a bit more loyal to them.
Now in regards to Bakemonogatari, I disagree with those who said a "bad dub is worse than no dub" because a "bad dub" is in the ears of the beholder. What is a bad dub for some can simply not be listened to by them, and for those who like it there is some advantage. I admit it would be extraordinarily difficult to provide Bakemonogatari with a dub, but even if the attempt failed for me I'd have respect given it's difficulty. Even then, given it's difficulty, the amount of gain in this case is probably not worth it.
Nevertheless, in other cases dubs are very desirable, and are worth far more than nothing to me. |
I am one of those that think that a bad dub is worse than no dub. I enjoy dubs, but in some cases are probably not the best idea. Funimation does good dubs, but they tend to release action/adventure and comedic series. Funimation is good at dubbing because they have the right voice cast for such series.
In other cases dubs end up being crappy because the voices are miscast, or the distributors just patch the series with a rushed and/or cheap dub. Try listening to the dubs of K-On! and both ef series to see what I mean.
I enjoy dubs and also appreciate the companies that include them. But if I have to pay an extra $30 for a crappy dub, no thanks. I rather read subtitles than listen to a crappy dub, done to satisfy a couple of thousands whinny costumers. |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2054
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:18 pm |
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I haven't watched Melodies yet but I actually think that they did fine with dubbing Memories. The reviewer here (Theron Martin/Key) seemed to agree with that. I did have some issues with the casting at the outset but didn't after the end of it.
I've also never seen where a dub costed $30 more than a sub-only. I see nothing close to that discrepancy. ef is a new show at 41.99, 11 eyes is sub only and has been out awhile and is 37.49 to take an example that's the same season length/etc.
I can see a "crappy dub" not being a positive that you would be willing to pay 4.50 on I guess, but I doubt most are making their decisions on <5$ differences, especially those interested in Aniplex shows when they charge much more while providing equivalent releases to NISA or Nozomi. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 1211
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:48 pm |
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| Zalis116 wrote: |
And I enjoyed the series just fine via a fansub version that was a mix of 400p and 360p. |
If Bakemono looks as good as Nisemono, it's not something I want to watch in only SD. If you don't care about visuals and fidelity at all, more power to you. I'm not knocking you or folk like you. But I do care, especially for shows like this where so much work is put into the visuals. |
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Kasugano
Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:36 pm |
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| Yes about damm time. How munch will it be? I hope it not 400$. But if it is I'll still buy it. This news this me happy. |
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Sailor S
Collector Extraordinaire
Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 2065
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:53 pm |
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| angelmcazares wrote: |
I enjoy dubs and also appreciate the companies that include them. But if I have to pay an extra $30 for a crappy dub, no thanks. I rather read subtitles than listen to a crappy dub, done to satisfy a couple of thousands whinny costumers. |
I'm not sure there are that many horse cosplayers, nor am I sure what the have to do with the subject at hand, but a couple thousand whiney customers represent a decent chunk of business these days, so perhaps they should be satisfied.
Like some others, I'll hold off on popping the champagne cork until a home video release is confirmed. |
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