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Zac's Reviews are inappropriate.


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nursemcquade



Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 26
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:14 pm Reply with quote
My goodness... you can't please everyone. That's why there are several different reviewers with varying points of view. While Zac can come off a bit cynical sometimes I find his reviews the most reliable, consistent and entertaining to read. If a title has reviews by more than one person I always goto his first. I don't agree with every one of his opinions, but do trust that what he has to say is going to be honest and not try and cater to what he thinks people want to hear.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Honesty is harsh. You know how many people think that their friends are unattractive, but reign in that honesty because it would destroy their relationship?

When it comes to entertainment of any sort, the reviewer and what he reviews are not friends. If you don't like honesty, the internet is FILLED with all sorts of anime reviews, pro and amateur.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3530
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Relenus wrote:
I am trying my best to wrap my brain around how a review can be "objective and free of bias."

Isn't the entire point of a review that it's someone giving their personal opinion?

Besides, the previews aren't really formal reviews. They're just quick and dirty articles on each person's initial reactions to an episode.

Still, it's good to see someone on the internet be polite when making a complaint.


Think of it this way "fox news is major news network like msnbc but both have their bias when giving out news or twist it to please their viewers.". I think that's the mentality the op has just give out facts but you can't do that with an review it's just a opinion based on the product that you experienced. I might have been off my rocker in the forums but i know this much.. aye
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7042
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:09 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
Anime News Network provides it's users with a dependable source of information about upcoming series with it's various reviews and columns. In the recent Spring 2012 Anime Preview Guide I'd like to call attention to reviews of the anime series Upotte! that was reviewed by Zac, Carl and Theron. I think regardless of the content of the series, the review should be informative, objective and free of bias and not leaving the reader think they are somehow the scum of society as well. A simple comparison of the review of those 3 contributors will show this was violated and compromised on many levels, but only Zac is guilty of it. There has been numerous occasions in the past where he has used the review to single out a certain segment of the anime community for being interested in certain content and very strongly implying that somehow they are twisted and a stain on the industry. Neither Carl nor Theron has ever done this. It is appropriate to express your own criticism of a show because it exceeds ick bar, but the air of superiority in a very demeaning way is unique to only Zacs review and I'm fed up with it. I think he needs to tone down his reviews and I would actually support that he be removed from Review Staff until further review is determined that he is fit for continuing this position.


I get what you're saying, and I think you have a point.

At least, I think you have a point about some of this.

Obviously I don't agree that my boss should muzzle me and tell me I can't say what I'm thinking. He isn't the sort of person to do that anyway.

But what you're really saying here is that I shouldn't talk about who the potential audience is for these shows - it's far too easy to make jokes and dick around about it, and that can wind up coming across as disrespectful and shitty. I don't think you're wrong about that.

I really took a metric ton of hate for the review of KissxSis I did a few years ago: animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2010-04-01/zac

I deserved the shit I got for that. I was being an ass about it. I enjoyed writing that - it really did get out a lot of the frustration I feel when it comes to this kind of thing. They *can* make something that's more than just "the people with [fetish x] will buy this, so let's make a bunch of it" but they don't, because this is entertainment, and just like Hollywood, anime is a risk-averse business. I decided to just be as crappy as I could about it in the moment, and that made a lot of people angry.

The thing I said you didn't like, I think - and stop me if I'm wrong here, seriously - is this:

Quote:

Watch Upotte!! if you are one of the following:

A person who honestly just wants to see how completely bonkers they're apparently willing to get these days in the anime industry

A dude who has such a strong gun fetish that you want to f*ck your guns but until now haven't really had a proper way to fantasize about doing that


When I wrote this, I felt like I was being fair and honest about my understanding of the show - which legitimately blew my mind, by the way - and wasn't really being an asshole about it. That's how I felt, anyway. It really did seem like a show that was made for one of these two audiences. I felt like I wasn't passing judgement on the gun fetish guys - just saying that the show seems to be made for them. Frankly I don't really know how anyone can walk away from the show *not* thinking it's for gun fetish people, coming to the same conclusions I did. Gun fetish people can like what they like - nobody's disputing that. Pointing out who you feel the audience for a show like this is, though, comes across like you're passing judgement. And that's what bothers you.

And again, I think you have a point.

I can't promise I'll never do it again, but understand I respect your opinion and how you've decided to come at this.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3199
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Primus wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about. His review of Sengoku Collection was marvelous. I agree with him, it is by far the best show of the season.

My only disappointment was that it got 10 out of 5. In deference to Spinal Tap, I would have preferred that it got 11 out of 5.

I found the review of Upotte!! quite generous. Sure, he did suggest that some fans of the show would be the kind of sick twisted individuals who are "laughing at it", but he also left the out that some fans may well be people who just innocently wish to imagine making love to their guns.

Its like the old "read Playboy for the articles" thing ... sure, some people might have done so, but rather than admitting an guilty pleasure in thoughtful, intelligent writing, one could always pretend to be a normal person who just liked looking at pictures of comely young lasses, a bit incompletely dressed.
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:05 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
But what you're really saying here is that I shouldn't talk about who the potential audience is for these shows - it's far too easy to make jokes and dick around about it, and that can wind up coming across as disrespectful and shitty.


I honestly don't think some people understand the sort of editorial independence between the "news" and "views" sections of the site in the same way as people on the staff would see it. In a way, the seasonal previews are almost more like staff blogs around common themes that get collected as a feature for the sake of reader convenience. But because you're posting on ANN -- a "news website" -- people (for better or worse) hold you to a different standard than if it were on "Zac's Anime Reviews Blog". That isn't to say people wouldn't still feel offended if any reviewer implies by proxy that they're scum for their preferences... but then they'd just ignore it. Here, some people would feel "this lowers the tone of discussion on all of ANN" or "doesn't reflect professionally on the organization"... even though I don't think people on the inside would see it that way because those are "just opinions pieces". (Anyone that doesn't know by now that you consider large parts of the anime fanbase "creepy" clearly hasn't been paying attention. ^^; ) Then again, even the line between a "review" and an "editorial" is a bit fuzzy, and expectations differ between the two in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. I honestly see that both points of view have some validity based on where they're coming from.
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Orange Hollow



Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Krasnoyarsk, Russia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:11 am Reply with quote
Well, I just read Zac's KissxSis preview and I don't see why he deserves any blame for it. In fact I would stay away from anyone who have any other reaction to that show as far as possible. On the other hand, only 1.5 for Arakawa Under the Bridge - that's outrageous!
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3138
Location: The Vivre Belt

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:31 am Reply with quote
Thank you Zac for addressing this issue so sincerely. And yes the specific gripe that I had about your review is exactly what you presumed it was based on my non-specific generalization of what I had an issue with (sorry for not pointing it out so that you had to guess).

I really appreciate your honest reply too because lots of other commenters argued that you weren't out of line in the slightest and that my argument was weak and fallacious to any real issue. But what they pointed out is something I agree that I erred on and was wrong about. Reviews should not be free of opinion or bias and I want to take back that I said that, it is an unfair expectation for any of the reviewers to say those specifics should be avoided in order for a review to be informative and entertaining. But those same commenters kept harping on me about it when my complaint was actually about something entirely different: singling out certain fans in the anime community and passing judgement, making them feel like lesser individuals. This has little to do with bias or objectivity in any type of journalism.

In contrast, Zac, your response hit the nail on the head with what I was concerned with, except for one minor detail:
Quote:
this is some of the absolute craziest, dumbest, weirdly creepiest shit I have ever seen in my life. Whoever is responsible for this show was out of their goddamn mind...
That coupled with the paragraph after that is what I think puts it into insulting and derogatory territory if one associates the descriptives above with the categorizing of fans following that. It may be a stretch of logic, but it upset me despite not even being a fan of guns.

I do want to express that I am sorry that I suggested a desire that your contribution to ANN be impacted. I never wished any permanent damage on your career, and never really thought any such thing could happen, I just felt this was deserving of a brief discussion between you and Tempest regarding behavior that I felt was irresponsible and needed improvement. I think this is a good type of constructive feedback, and maybe we all learned something positive from it. I hope.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:02 am Reply with quote
Yay! World peace!

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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1103
Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Past wrote:
Anime News Network provides it's users with a dependable source of information about upcoming series with it's various reviews and columns. In the recent Spring 2012 Anime Preview Guide I'd like to call attention to reviews of the anime series Upotte! that was reviewed by Zac, Carl and Theron. I think regardless of the content of the series, the review should be informative, objective and free of bias and not leaving the reader think they are somehow the scum of society as well. A simple comparison of the review of those 3 contributors will show this was violated and compromised on many levels, but only Zac is guilty of it. There has been numerous occasions in the past where he has used the review to single out a certain segment of the anime community for being interested in certain content and very strongly implying that somehow they are twisted and a stain on the industry. Neither Carl nor Theron has ever done this. It is appropriate to express your own criticism of a show because it exceeds ick bar, but the air of superiority in a very demeaning way is unique to only Zacs review and I'm fed up with it. I think he needs to tone down his reviews and I would actually support that he be removed from Review Staff until further review is determined that he is fit for continuing this position.


I get what you're saying, and I think you have a point.

At least, I think you have a point about some of this.

Obviously I don't agree that my boss should muzzle me and tell me I can't say what I'm thinking. He isn't the sort of person to do that anyway.

But what you're really saying here is that I shouldn't talk about who the potential audience is for these shows - it's far too easy to make jokes and dick around about it, and that can wind up coming across as disrespectful and shitty. I don't think you're wrong about that.

I really took a metric ton of hate for the review of KissxSis I did a few years ago: animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2010-04-01/zac

I deserved the shit I got for that. I was being an ass about it. I enjoyed writing that - it really did get out a lot of the frustration I feel when it comes to this kind of thing. They *can* make something that's more than just "the people with [fetish x] will buy this, so let's make a bunch of it" but they don't, because this is entertainment, and just like Hollywood, anime is a risk-averse business. I decided to just be as crappy as I could about it in the moment, and that made a lot of people angry.

But you see that Rebecca also felt Upotte!! was a steaming pile of shyte made explicitly for depraved lolicon otaku who spend all their money buying this crap. Honestly, Zac is a voice who needs to be heard because far too often these shows are given a pass simply because they feature cute girls. Really, just f**k that! Why not just make it hentai and be honest about their true intention? Zac's reviews are frank and hilarious. I see no reason to temper his emotions or his reactions. I LOVE HEARING WHAT HE REALLY THINKS! I know I am not alone. If you've got butthurt, too damn bad.
Zac wrote:

The thing I said you didn't like, I think - and stop me if I'm wrong here, seriously - is this:

Quote:

Watch Upotte!! if you are one of the following:

A person who honestly just wants to see how completely bonkers they're apparently willing to get these days in the anime industry

A dude who has such a strong gun fetish that you want to f*ck your guns but until now haven't really had a proper way to fantasize about doing that


When I wrote this, I felt like I was being fair and honest about my understanding of the show - which legitimately blew my mind, by the way - and wasn't really being an asshole about it. That's how I felt, anyway. It really did seem like a show that was made for one of these two audiences. I felt like I wasn't passing judgement on the gun fetish guys - just saying that the show seems to be made for them. Frankly I don't really know how anyone can walk away from the show *not* thinking it's for gun fetish people, coming to the same conclusions I did. Gun fetish people can like what they like - nobody's disputing that. Pointing out who you feel the audience for a show like this is, though, comes across like you're passing judgement. And that's what bothers you.

And again, I think you have a point.

I can't promise I'll never do it again, but understand I respect your opinion and how you've decided to come at this.

No, there is no need to promise or anything of the sort. I was mad at Carlo for his review of Rock Lee, but I got over it. I would suggest that the complainant fill out one of these:

In other words: GET OVER IT!
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:02 pm Reply with quote
I ah, think you're just a leetle too late to the argument, dude.
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Hiyugi



Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:08 pm Reply with quote
WTF...

Leave Zac alone, Zac's done a lot for this community than you never will.

I swear what the hell is up with these butthurt Anime fans these days, they're more looney than usual.

Some of these people need to get out more and get out of the damn closet. There's no reason to be so damn offensive, for no damn reason.

Rolling Eyes
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7042
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Er, I feel like we basically resolved this, so...
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