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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 8154

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
No, you are missing my point. I want a Rito-free Yami/Mikan story.

I can't [expletive] stand Rito. I can't stand him in the original manga, the TV series, the OVAs, or Darkness. He's everything thats [expletive] wrong with this genre.


Rito deserves anything that happens to him in doujinshi. And as AMG revealed recently, the entire impotent male lead harem genre is a sham! What's doubly sad about Rito in Darkness is that he no longer has the Skuld-cockblocker character, his harem is right there waiting for him to curl his fingers around it, but he never will.
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V1046-R



Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:41 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
No, you are missing my point. I want a Rito-free Yami/Mikan story.

I can't [expletive] stand Rito. I can't stand him in the original manga, the TV series, the OVAs, or Darkness. He's everything thats [expletive] wrong with this genre.


Rito deserves anything that happens to him in doujinshi. And as AMG revealed recently, the entire impotent male lead harem genre is a sham! What's doubly sad about Rito in Darkness is that he no longer has the Skuld-cockblocker character, his harem is right there waiting for him to curl his fingers around it, but he never will.


Initially, the meek male character has some charm as long as they are not total breain dead wuss, and there is character development growth. I didn't initially see Rito in that category, as he did become strong & heroic when the girls were in jeapordy. But lack of growth means that character did indeed seem a wuss by nature after a while. Strong people grow, and wusses stay the same. I can relate to mild mannered characters with inner strength, but not to timid characters that never come out of their shell and are easily led down the wrong path by others. That is generally a two dimensional shill who's only function in the story is as catalyst to misunderstanding/jealousy schtick repeated over & over. There have been too many miles put on that worn out comedy theme IMO.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
V1046-R wrote:
I didn't initially see Rito in that category, as he did become strong & heroic when the girls were in jeapordy.


I'm glad you brought that angel up, as that tends to be one positive attribute that the spineless male lead possesses. He'll rise to the occasion when his harem is threatened in the inevitable episode 12 and 13 hamfisted drama/action mini-arc that has no business being in a fanservice comedy, but after that threat is dealt with he's back to the eunuch he was before. This isn't unique to Rito's situation, nearly all of his type of character end up going through this.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
[EDIT: No excessive quoting, and no picking fights. -TK]
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V1046-R



Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:06 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
V1046-R wrote:
I didn't initially see Rito in that category, as he did become strong & heroic when the girls were in jeapordy.


I'm glad you brought that angel up, as that tends to be one positive attribute that the spineless male lead possesses. He'll rise to the occasion when his harem is threatened in the inevitable episode 12 and 13 hamfisted drama/action mini-arc that has no business being in a fanservice comedy, but after that threat is dealt with he's back to the eunuch he was before. This isn't unique to Rito's situation, nearly all of his type of character end up going through this.


Yes agreed. It is always a letdown to me when character reverts back to same old wimpy BS to milk the same jokes again. It is a common cliche, but IMHO Western viewpoint, shows would really take off to another level of coolness if characters actually grew from those experiences, and started becoming more badasses. Maybe this is an American thing - we don't identify with wimpy dudes. We identify with badass dudes, even if we aren't one ourselves in real life.
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:40 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
No, you are missing my point. I want a Rito-free Yami/Mikan story.

I can't [expletive] stand Rito. I can't stand him in the original manga, the TV series, the OVAs, or Darkness. He's everything thats [expletive] wrong with this genre.

Rito deserves anything that happens to him in doujinshi. And as AMG revealed recently, the entire impotent male lead harem genre is a sham! What's doubly sad about Rito in Darkness is that he no longer has the Skuld-cockblocker character, his harem is right there waiting for him to curl his fingers around it, but he never will.

Like a lot of harem leads Rito is decidedly meh to me so I can’t believe I’m defending him but here goes. I will say one thing in his defense. Rito’s harem is mostly a distraction/temptation for him that gets in the way of him confessing his feelings to his true love, Haruna. He's in love with one girl. So in this case at least, it makes sense why the bland male lead won’t do anything with or take advantage of the harem of hot girls surrounding him.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:04 pm Reply with quote
True enough I like rito on level though because he tries his best to really avoid these situations but the still end up happening. However since yabuki was screwed over by ex haruna really can't be used anymore do to copyright issues and being based on her. I guess this what happens when you make a manga with your girlfriend/wife or lover and they go nuts.

[EDIT: Stop excessively quoting. -TK]
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:53 pm Reply with quote
notazaku wrote:
Like a lot of harem leads Rito is decidedly meh to me so I can’t believe I’m defending him but here goes. I will say one thing in his defense. Rito’s harem is mostly a distraction/temptation for him that gets in the way of him confessing his feelings to his true love, Haruna. He's in love with one girl. So in this case at least, it makes sense why the bland male lead won’t do anything with or take advantage of the harem of hot girls surrounding him.


But much like most other stories that TLR is spiritually proceeding, notably Urusei Yatsura, Haruna isn't who the fans like the most, like how Lum obviously beat out Shinobu for the fan's affections. The childhood friend/love interest never wins out in the end, so it's a pointless venture to keep that character around for the lead to be enamored with.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:30 pm Reply with quote
The real problem with TLR is that it has great character designs, paired with fun personalities for the girls, all focused on one utterly useless male character.

Like, for example, Yui. Great tsundere! A++ would come back for more. But I cannot buy her interest in Rito. At all. Its completely beyond my ability to suspend my disbelief.

One reason the only character I really like is Yami, because her relationship with Mikan actually gives her a bit of depth, sets her apart from the other girls.
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:29 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
But much like most other stories that TLR is spiritually proceeding, notably Urusei Yatsura, Haruna isn't who the fans like the most, like how Lum obviously beat out Shinobu for the fan's affections. The childhood friend/love interest never wins out in the end, so it's a pointless venture to keep that character around for the lead to be enamored with.

Putting aside who the fans’ favorite is, Rito’s affection for Haruna always seemed stronger than most harem leads’ feelings for the childhood friend/normal girl. Even his feelings for Lala didn’t seem to compare. Compare that to say Sora no Otoshimono where Sohara, the childhood friend, has absolutely no chance since Ikaros is the obvious choice. Haruna’s chances always seemed better to me than for most characters of her type. She certainly gave Lala more competition than most despite not being a fan favorite. This kind of set TLR apart from other harem shows for me.
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:
True enough I like rito on level though because he tries his best to really avoid these situations but the still end up happening. However since yabuki was screwed over by ex haruna really can't be used anymore do to copyright issues and being based on her. I guess this what happens when you make a manga with your girlfriend/wife or lover and they go nuts.

Didn't know that. That's really unfortunate. So no more Haruna.
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Like, for example, Yui. Great tsundere! A++ would come back for more. But I cannot buy her interest in Rito. At all. Its completely beyond my ability to suspend my disbelief.

One reason the only character I really like is Yami, because her relationship with Mikan actually gives her a bit of depth, sets her apart from the other girls.

Perhaps Yui has some self-destructive behaviors.

Yami and Mikan are the best characters in the series though. I think the quality of the series actually increases in proportion to their screen time.
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Fencedude5609



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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:50 pm Reply with quote
notazaku wrote:

Yami and Mikan are the best characters in the series though. I think the quality of the series actually increases in proportion to their screen time.


I have a great idea for how to rewrite TLR into something far more entertaining. And it doesn't even involve getting rid of Rito.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6183

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
The real problem with TLR is that it has great character designs, paired with fun personalities for the girls, all focused on one utterly useless male character.


I only found about four of the girls to be worthwhile (Yami, Mikan, and the twins) and the show frequently wasted way too much time on the most boring ones as well.

I found Yui to be one of the least entertaining ones, but that might have been partially because of the Rito issues as well. I really didn't care for Haruna, so I consider the inability of Darkness to use her to be a plus.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:58 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
notazaku wrote:

Yami and Mikan are the best characters in the series though. I think the quality of the series actually increases in proportion to their screen time.


I have a great idea for how to rewrite TLR into something far more entertaining. And it doesn't even involve getting rid of Rito.


Does it involve turning him into Riko permanently? I'm all onboard for that.

HitokiriShadow wrote:
I only found about four of the girls to be worthwhile (Yami, Mikan, and the twins) and the show frequently wasted way too much time on the most boring ones as well.

I found Yui to be one of the least entertaining ones, but that might have been partially because of the Rito issues as well. I really didn't care for Haruna, so I consider the inability of Darkness to use her to be a plus.


The twins take a more center stage position in Darkness, especially Momo. Haruna isn't written out as much as toned down in favor of the rest of the cast.


Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:59 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Does it involve turning him into Riko permanently? I'm all onboard for that.


That would be a part of it, eventually.
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:09 am Reply with quote
Well Riko>Rito. Now I'm curious how it would play out.
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