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casualfan
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 132
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:39 am |
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| Polycell wrote: | | Rhyono wrote: | | casualfan wrote: | | I have to disagree with Kirito's sympathy for NPCs. They're just a bunch of codes and will respawn anyway. They're not much different from the monsters they've been killing, except the NPCs are programmed to help the players. Other than that I love this episode. Makes me curious what method the pk'er used. |
I agree. I felt like the writers had trouble finding something for them to disagree on, so they came up with something stupid. |
Back when I was playing through Half-Life I found myself unwilling to kill the guards for their ammo(and in Opposing Force, they had some nice guns). All this talk about Kirito's position being unrealistic is nothing more than an ipse dixit - given what he's been through, it's not surprising he'd not want to use NPCs as cannon fodder. |
Except in this game the player dies for real. So a million npcs who will respawn anyway should be expendable if it means saving lives. |
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Seed92
Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:37 pm |
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| egoist wrote: |
Because I said so. |
wooow , so cool lol |
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Rhyono
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:43 pm |
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| @Seed92 You really can't beat such a sound argument. |
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Seed92
Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:46 pm |
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| Rhyono wrote: | | @Seed92 You really can't beat such a sound argument. |
true, agianst some1 that doesnt use constructive statements.. abit difficult, our minds think different ^^
eg : (example only) white people sux! or black people sux!
some1 asks : whats the reason?
because i said so!
nevertheless, back to the discussion, unless some kid wants to continue doing senseless stuff
true for the part where he didn't wanna make use of the npc to beat the boss, UNLESS, he's doing a glitch which requires the npc to be alive |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Get off my lawn!
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 1493
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:15 pm |
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I think that the reason Kirito doesn't want the NPCs to be sacrificed is based on how he views SAO itself. *I* think that Kirito tries to view the world as a real place. He has entirely accepted the creator's vision and embraced it. It's not that he doesn't know that SAO isn't really the real world, it's that it *doesn't matter* that SAO isn't the real world, because for them, its' reality is just as significant.
Remember what he said to Asuna about the weather? Notice how easily he can spit out facts about HP regen per tick? Remember what he said to Klein on the first day about how he felt more alive in the virtual world than he did in the real one?
Kirito treats the world of SAO as the real world, and leaving innocents to be destroyed by a monster is Wrong in the real world, so leaving NPCs to be destroyed by a floor boss is just as Wrong in Aincrad. It's not that he has gone mad and lost the ability to differentiate between Reality and Virtual, but that he *chooses* to treat the two as essentially the same.
That's my take, anyway. |
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Rhyono
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:20 pm |
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| @Tuor_of_Gondolin I think your interpretation is correct, but I get hung up on the point that they respawn. For example: I didn't kill villagers in Skyrim because they wouldn't come back (and many served a purpose). But if guards annoyed me, I'd slaughter them all because I knew they'd respawn. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Get off my lawn!
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 1493
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:23 pm |
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Rhyono,
They do respawn, but it's the principle of the matter that is driving Kirito's opposition, IMO. In order to maintain his internal consistancy, he has to oppose the plan. I can respect that viewpoint, even if I think it's sort of wacky. |
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MrTerrorist
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:05 pm |
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| Another possibility is his fear is players are losing their morality. As we seen in the previous episode, player-killers are looked down in the game because they kill real people without care. I think Kirito fears if players started treating NPCs as fodder to be killed, they might treat the same way on other players. |
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Seed92
Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:36 pm |
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the fact that they have been playing this game for like 1.5 years? or 2 years? i didn't really kept note of the date, but.. its a long long time for being in a game 24/7
but guys, thats why stories are good, every person views it differently, its a different story everytime i rewatch great animes like code geass or some others
maybe they're just trying to make asuna look kick ass lol.. |
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Past
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 2969
Location: Chibi Wonderland (Nebraska)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:39 pm |
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| MrTerrorist wrote: | | Another possibility is his fear is players are losing their morality. As we seen in the previous episode, player-killers are looked down in the game because they kill real people without care. I think Kirito fears if players started treating NPCs as fodder to be killed, they might treat the same way on other players. |
Hmm good point. I'm not disagreeing with you though, but I think another danger lies in losing the ability to distinguish reality from the virtual world. Still being able to recognize NPC as just computer generated figures may be the last thread of hope for those that are starting to forget it's a made up, digitized world. Perhaps there are PK's because some have gone mad and are already across that line. |
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Rhyono
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:33 am |
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| Past wrote: | | I think another danger lies in losing the ability to distinguish reality from the virtual world. Still being able to recognize NPC as just computer generated figures may be the last thread of hope for those that are starting to forget it's a made up, digitized world. |
If you're starting to think it's the real world then...
| Past wrote: | | Perhaps there are PK's because some have gone mad and are already across that line. |
...killing people is even worse. |
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 4612
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:02 am |
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Do you none of you guys here who play games honestly not feel bad at the idea of killing NPCs. When you are role playing, it can be important that you are following moral choices that fit your character.
Now about Kirito, some talk about him being a Gary Stu earlier, but I think that this proof of some character to him, he likes to play the games as an escape. Some people like to treat the creation of another life as a chance to give themselves power over other people, but others like to apply morals that they would normally have into the game world. I can sympathize with him, you can say that they are just data, that they don't really exist, that they just respawn, but they still look human, and they are human in that world.
Does not have to make logical sense. |
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Clarste
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:55 am |
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| Well, the problem is that it comes at the cost of making it riskier for the players. Who, because of your riskier plan, might die for real. In real life. It's no longer a matter of role playing at that point. |
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 2090
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:00 am |
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| Congratulations, you agree with Asuna. That doesn't make their disagreement silly. |
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egoist
Pirate King
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7283
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:20 am |
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| Seed92 wrote: | | true, agianst some1 that doesnt use constructive statements.. |
How ironic because I didn't want to explain for the same reason.
The answer is in what I quoted. Look a bit harder. Use your constructive mind. |
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