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Banden



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
So referring to someone as "crazed" is neither abusive nor slanderous to you (actually since you wrote it as opposed to saying it, your comment is libelous as opposed to slanderous, but whatevs)?

Where I come from, referring to someone as crazed is rarely perceived as either respectful or polite.


Last time "Puritan" was the labeling/judging/insulting word.

And Keonyn specifically continues to point to the swearing rule as the one I'm guilty of breaking. Which given rule 7 I find baffling to say the least, but no matter how I look at it those rules aren't quite what they seem.

I can't help using the construction "You are". It's the most basic syntax of the English language. And if someone is something, and I think that's bad, I'm more than comfortable saying "You are something. And that is bad." It's happened twice so far, and no one has convinced me so far that it's a big deal.

The thing is I'm not exactly running around the forums calling people f****** c***s******. I'm told that I am, but my post history speaks for itself. I am expressing my opinions where they are on topic and appropriate. Based on the two moderation experiences so far, it's really not clear to me that there's anything I can do to be LESS offensive in my postings other than declining to express any strongly held opinion.


Last edited by Banden on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7042
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:54 pm Reply with quote
Hey Banden, you are a soapboxing, thread-derailing political pest and we barely tolerate you. Why are you pushing your luck?
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Keonyn
Moderator


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5562
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The only person who has ever said "you're persecuting me", Keonyn, is you as a matter of fact, which goes right to the heart of the issues I've had with your moderation of things I post: I say one thing ("You crazed law and order types or something else" "I find it alarming and troubling that this kind of statement is now subject to moderator review") and you delete what I've written or threaten me with a ban on the basis of another statement I didn't even make ("You are crazy Mr. sickVisionz" "You're persecuting me").

When I ask for clarification, it's never quite a conversation, and it constantly feels like you, specifically, are talking past me about something different than I actually said and can't correct for in the absence of ESP, having the same opinion as you do 1:1 on the subject at hand, or having no opinion on the subject. If I think that any concept, belief or attitude is a bad thing, you tell me I'm judging and insulting somebody, and I genuinely don't know how I can have a strong opinion about anything if nothing anyone believes is acceptable to criticize.


And the same hilarity ensues again. Once again you have already convinced yourself it's some great conspiracy against you in which I am the only player. If you think I'm going to give you details of those that have reported you and tell you who they are then you are sorely mistaken. The moment we open up the reporting system for reprisal like that is the moment that system becomes pointless. I haven't said you're persecuting me, that's been all you bucko. In fact, I wasn't even really a player in the discussions where you were moderated until your actions were reported and I was drawn in by my duty as a mod. Plus, as I told you last time I can't ban you, I can moderate, but I can't ban and I don't threaten bans for that very reason. I can certainly suggest it, but banning is not my call.

As for the second part; it's funny you reference it like that since you're accusing me of basically doing exactly what you try to do. I'm not talking past you about something different, I am outright telling you that you have once again chosen to accuse someone of being something for having an alternate viewpoint and disrespect them. You could have made your entire point without accusing them of being "crazed", and given your past history in this regard I wasn't going to allow you to start down that road again; particularly since you already attempted to derail the thread outright in to a political discussion about entities and policies that weren't even involved in that threads subject.

Once again, I'm going to tell you that you can disagree with people and make your case all you want. Hundreds of people do this on a daily basis on these forums without any issue as a matter of fact. People all over these forums also have differing opinions from myself and I honestly couldn't care less. You can pick apart peoples arguments and even argue why they're wrong, but the moment you start saying crap like, "you crazed..." or "closed-minded sex fearing puritans" (like last time) then we have a problem. This isn't rocket science or remotely difficult; try to make your case without attempting to directly attack or insult the other person and all is well.

Quote:
This is the second time moderation action has been brought down on me for "judging", and based on this conversation it's becoming pretty clear that it's the same underlying problem with the same moderator.

If I was Keonyn's doppelganger, you're right! I wouldn't have to worry about moderator scrutiny, for several reasons. But that's obviously impossible, and I didn't think the forum was ever meant to be a hive of Keonyn clones.

I would just like someone to spell out in black and white exactly what ANN considers "profanity", and not profanity, so things I say can't be spontaneously designated as such based on a moderator's snap decision.


Yup, that's right; I'm part of a secret organization intent on overrunning the world with my clones so I can force you to sit on your couch and think like me. Oh yeah, that sounds exciting; obviously you think too highly of yourself if you think you're even worth that much effort. The simple fact of the matter is that you once again exhibited the kind of behavior that got you in hot water last time, and now once again you're treating a mild slap on the wrist as if I just killed your mother and ate your sister; digging yourself in to a deeper hole in the process.

This has nothing to do with profanity. You are once again doing exactly what you did last time, seeing that one descriptor in the rules and latching on to it in spite of the fact those rules represent a great number of violations beyond just profanity. The simple fact of the matter is you disrespectfully and condescendingly accused other users of being "crazed" for not adopting your exact point of view (ironic since you accuse me of something similar) and you got your hand slapped for it; deal with it. Stop insulting people and it won't happen; it's not a difficult concept. Your entire post was fine until you decided to make it personal like that. Disagreeing with their point of view doesn't qualify you to judge them and accuse them like that, just like disliking fanservice didn't justify your accusations of them being "sex-fearing closed-minded puritans" the last time.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Bias is more accurate than conspiracy. I've noticed a lot of inconsistency and favoritism being tossed around more and more these days -_-; Even hinting that America might have done something wrong when it comes to whitewashing films is met with insta deletion and threats of bans. dan9999's post gets deleted because he talks about the crime rate when it comes to a rape story ANN reported and mentioned how America's was higher in response to all the people slamming Japan for being some rape-happy country, including posts like rockman nes where he says rape is just like saying hello in Japan. None of those were deleted so I assume it's a-ok to generalize and make offensive comments when it comes to Japan but when it comes to stating true crime facts about the glorious Bald Eagle it's unacceptable Rolling Eyes

EDIT: Then again... I wonder if this has any connection to Keonyn and Zac having American cartoon avatars... silencing any cricism towards Americna crime rates or posts..maybe it is a conspiracy after all..~! Nah, but it's a funny observation when you see who are the ones always putting the hammer down.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 8567
Location: Do not message me for support.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:36 pm Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
Bias is more accurate than conspiracy. I've noticed a lot of inconsistency and favoritism being tossed around more and more these days -_-; Even hinting that America might have done something wrong when it comes to whitewashing films is met with insta deletion and threats of bans.


One of the administrators and one of the moderators actually have pretty strong anti-American opinions.

I'd be very surprised to see significant pro-American bias on the part of the moderators here. If a post that has anti-[insert culture here] views is moderated, it's likely been moderated for one of the following reasons:

1) Said views were espoused in a hateful way;
2) Said views were dragging the conversation off topic;
3) The person expressing said views had previously been warned about soap-boxing.

If anyone can point me to a post where legitimate, polite and on-topic, criticism of any culture/country (including mentions of unflatering statistics, ex: crime rates) was moderated, please do so. I will not stand for censorship of legitimate opinions.


On another note

I'm tired of this discussion about being inconsistent with our moderating. Yes, we are. There are two reasons.

1) Often, no one actually bothers to report inappropriate posts, and the moderators here don't read everything, so in those occurrences, a post that should get moderated gets by.

2) We do come down harder on people who are generally problematic for us, or do not contribute to the forum. Post 17 one-liner replies (ex: "I agree.") and then swear once, we might ban you. Post 17 thoughtful replies and then swear three times, you'll probably only get a warning.

I make no apology for this inconsistency, while open to the public, this forum is privately owned and as a visitor you have no "bill of rights." Unlike society at large, where individual rights often trump the "good of the many," we put the best interest of the community ahead of individual fairness. It is our prerogative to expel or moderate individuals that we feel negatively impact the forum, even if they don't break any rules.

That said, as stated above, and as I've stated many, many times, I will permit any non-hateful opinion here as long as it is 1) politely expressed and 2) relevant (keep in mind rule 7).

-t
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Keonyn
Moderator


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5562
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:20 am Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
Bias is more accurate than conspiracy. I've noticed a lot of inconsistency and favoritism being tossed around more and more these days -_-; Even hinting that America might have done something wrong when it comes to whitewashing films is met with insta deletion and threats of bans. dan9999's post gets deleted because he talks about the crime rate when it comes to a rape story ANN reported and mentioned how America's was higher in response to all the people slamming Japan for being some rape-happy country, including posts like rockman nes where he says rape is just like saying hello in Japan. None of those were deleted so I assume it's a-ok to generalize and make offensive comments when it comes to Japan but when it comes to stating true crime facts about the glorious Bald Eagle it's unacceptable Rolling Eyes

EDIT: Then again... I wonder if this has any connection to Keonyn and Zac having American cartoon avatars... silencing any cricism towards Americna crime rates or posts..maybe it is a conspiracy after all..~! Nah, but it's a funny observation when you see who are the ones always putting the hammer down.


Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that as a Japanese animation fansite the bulk of what we're going to deal with in respect of bias is going to be towards America. It's funny really that I constantly get accused of being bias against Japan and then accused of being bias against America the next, or bias against subs, or bias against dubs, bias against loli and then called "another pedo perv" later. At this point I'm beginning to think I must have multiple personalities because apparently I can't make up my freaking mind. Or instead of recognizing the issues and rules violation it's just easier to say "oh, it's the mods bias, not me".

The funniest part is that dan9999's post got removed as it was part of a discussion that was in response to a very nationalistic and politically charged anti-Japan post. Sorry, but when such posts are removed the replies that fuel the discussion go with them. It's funny though how you neglect to even mention that post in your tirade.

As for the whole "whitewashing" debate; yeah, those get deleted often because they are soapboxing from the same people that post that crap everytime any overseas adaptation is mentioned and they constantly divert the entire discussion of the thread down those lines. Sorry, but we're not going to allow every single thread that so much as mention an adaptation or even other markets to turn in to a whinefest about how it's ultimately the most evil thing ever in their eyes. Let's also not forget the sheer level of generalizations and offensive accusations that tend to come along with them.

In regards to rockman nes's post, I can't say I've ever heard of him or recall ever seeing such a post. Did you bother reporting it by chance? Apparently not because I just did a search, found the post and removed it and checked the reports and found no instances of it ever being reported. I can't see everything, and we certainly appreciate you bringing this to our attention now, but you know what works even better than posting about it not being taken care of so I can then wade through the forum search function to find the post you're talking about? Reporting it using the actual report function so it can be found easily and handled quickly. Don't sit here and complain that no action was taken when you never even bothered reporting it in the first place. If someone was breaking in to your house and you didn't call the cops and just let them break in would you then complain at the cops that they didn't do anything in spite of never telling them?

And, on a final note, since apparently having a 100x100 avatar image of a great animated classic inspires conspiracy theories for you I went ahead and changed it to a great anime title (and I'm the bias one).
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egoist
Pirate KingPirate King


Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7675

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:59 pm Reply with quote
What favouritism? I've been here for so long and I still receive warnings. And abunai ain't even here! I don't even write one liners. Much less offend people left and right. But I'm sexy. Maybe I receive less warnings because of my sexinesss.
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Psycho 101
Thread KillerThread Killer


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 8708
Location: Omega Markets

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:22 pm Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:

EDIT: Then again... I wonder if this has any connection to Keonyn and Zac having American cartoon avatars... silencing any cricism towards Americna crime rates or posts..maybe it is a conspiracy after all..~! Nah, but it's a funny observation when you see who are the ones always putting the hammer down.

FYI Keonyn has had his avatar LONG BEFORE you ever even joined up on these forums. If I am not mistaken Keonyn had his last avatar BEFORE, if not then closely after, he was even promoted to being a mod. As for Zac....he only changes his maybe 2-3 times a year. If that. So that argument of yours simply does not hold much weight. They are not ADHD when it comes to their avatars like myself and some others who change them often for various reasons.

Now I do think certain admins/mods do have slight bias's towards/against America. Tempest already confirmed as much basically. I would lengthen his list by another admin in my personal opinion but so what? Generally speaking most people are going to have a slight bias towards the country of their origin and where they live. That's just generally human nature. Most people are going to show favoritism to "their" country over others. That's just how it goes. Since he is not silent, nor keeps them private, in his views I will say the one moderator in question who is more anti-American interests (sorry if not the best phrase he'd use to describe himself) is abunai. Abunai hails from Denmark, and I would expect him to be more "pro Denmark" then "pro America" in his views. I would expect his political and religious views to more closely resemble those of Danish citizens of Western Europe then those of Americans over here across the Atlantic. To me that is just common sense. Just as I expect Zac to be more "pro America" as he is from....guess where.....America. And the West Coast no less which is more liberal by American standards as well. Suffice to say there is no conspiracy but there surely is some bias. Again, do you really expect anything less from people that are from entirely different regions of the world with entirely different views? On a personal note the 2 above mentioned staff members generally only REALLY get into their "pro country" views when arguing amongst each other.

The other thing you should, and everyone else should as well, consider is it's not always the views that are being moderated. It's the method in which they were expressed. It's not the view itself, it's the context in which it was spoken. There is a VAST difference between expressing your view that you think there might be an unfair bias towards "x" then saying "F you you're all forum nazis and haters" for example. And I would know from personal experience with..."discussions" I have had with various staffers over the years here. Both Zac and abunai included. Hell, in my first 2 weeks here back in the day I accused one of the original mods, Nagisa, of being rude towards a poster in the 10 greatest/5 worst anime sticky thread. Was he being rude? Yes. I however brought it up by basically insulting Nagisa in the process. Guess how far my opinion went? I have however seen Tempest moderate the moderators/other admin on a few rare occasions when it was called for. So Tempest is genuine and sincere when he says he won't stand for legitimate censorship when the censored person is actually acting with some civility. I have also had my own issues with Zac over the years and I can again say from personal experience that if you PM him in a calm and civil manner he will listen to what you have to say. I won't say he'll automatically agree with you but he will at least listen and consider your opinion. And you won't get warned or banned either.

Sorry if I'm late to the party, and if my post really is not needed, so to speak but I wanted to express my opinions on the subject as I have first hand experience on it. And egoist you still get warnings because you use more hair gel than all the Jerry Curls in Harlem in your hair. We're tired of slipping everywhere because you walked by and left more oil on the ground then the Exxon Valdez wreck. Wink
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abunai
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5461
Location: 露命

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Since he is not silent, nor keeps them private, in his views I will say the one moderator in question who is more anti-American interests (sorry if not the best phrase he'd use to describe himself) is abunai. Abunai hails from Denmark, and I would expect him to be more "pro Denmark" then "pro America" in his views. I would expect his political and religious views to more closely resemble those of Danish citizens of Western Europe then those of Americans over here across the Atlantic.

Actually, what I am is "anti-idiot". If you see me as "anti-American", it's just because there are so frighteningly many idiots over there.

Psycho 101 wrote:
On a personal note the 2 above mentioned staff members generally only REALLY get into their "pro country" views when arguing amongst each other.

I don't believe I've ever had to defend Denmark to Zac (not for lack of good reasons, though -- Denmark has plenty of flaws), though he has often defended America to me -- and, since I am the very soul of reason, and since he (occasionally) happens to be right, he has also (occasionally) convinced me.

Psycho 101 wrote:
I have also had my own issues with Zac over the years and I can again say from personal experience that if you PM him in a calm and civil manner he will listen to what you have to say. I won't say he'll automatically agree with you but he will at least listen and consider your opinion. And you won't get warned or banned either.

It's not specific to Zac, it applies to anybody: if you're going to try to discuss something with people, it's best to be courteous. If you're finding courtesy difficult, then holding the discussion in public is a seriously bad idea.

- abunai
I'm not back, somebody just rubbed my lamp
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Psycho 101
Thread KillerThread Killer


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 8708
Location: Omega Markets

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:43 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:

Actually, what I am is "anti-idiot". If you see me as "anti-American", it's just because there are so frighteningly many idiots over there.

Thanks for the clarification. I'd personally love to argue that last point with you.....but then I looked outside my front window and face palmed at my one set of neighbors. You win this round abunai!

abunai wrote:

It's not specific to Zac, it applies to anybody: if you're going to try to discuss something with people, it's best to be courteous. If you're finding courtesy difficult, then holding the discussion in public is a seriously bad idea.

- abunai
I'm not back, somebody just rubbed my lamp

True, and you and I have had issues before too thus further proving the point of being civil. At least I often PM'ed you with my gripes and complaints. That gets me some points right? Very Happy As for rubbing your lamp.....is it like saying bloody mary 3 times in a mirror? If I say abunai 3 times while looking at a computer monitor you appear on that site? I might have to have some fun with that.
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