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Sword Art Online (TV).


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dragoneyes001



Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:36 am Reply with quote
Saffire wrote:
So...Tuor's previous post made me realize that the anime actually doesn't explain ALO's stat system. As a novel reader I'm trying to stay out of the way of speculation (it's more fun that way), but this...I think this should've gotten more explanation. LN discussion follows; it's not critical information but I think it might help establish some context for some things that have happened.

spoiler[The basis of ALO is that it's intended to be as skill-based as possible. As such, you do not gain stats as you level. Races have hidden base stats, gear might have some stats on it, and that's it. HP/MP gains are small as you level. Gear helps to a point, but ultimately the most important thing in ALO combat is reflex speed, then fighting knowledge, and we all know where Kirito rates on those scales. As another example, Leafa doesn't have much play time compared to most other top players, but she's still considered one of the strongest Sylphs because she has actual fighting skills.]

spoiler[Skills have a different purpose as well. The only thing they're used for is determining what gear you can use. Eugene's sword requires 950 skill to wield, for example. They don't affect combat damage; damage is calculated on gear (weapon damage vs armor) and the strike itself (where it lands, swing speed, etc). The magic skill system doesn't get explained, so don't bother asking. So really, all Kirito's bugged stats do is give him the ability to wield whatever he comes across.]


if this is the case then the general should never have been called the strongest player. his attack skill relied so heavily on the swords special ability,he may as well have been a noob who bought an uber account.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:00 am Reply with quote
dragoneyes001 wrote:
if this is the case then the general should never have been called the strongest player. his attack skill relied so heavily on the swords special ability,he may as well have been a noob who bought an uber account.
So we ignore the idea that he just might actually be skilled? Seems people have on a number of occasions already underestimated the skill of people being more important than player stat requirements for MMOs now.
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dragoneyes001



Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:36 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
dragoneyes001 wrote:
if this is the case then the general should never have been called the strongest player. his attack skill relied so heavily on the swords special ability,he may as well have been a noob who bought an uber account.
So we ignore the idea that he just might actually be skilled? Seems people have on a number of occasions already underestimated the skill of people being more important than player stat requirements for MMOs now.


re-watch the fight. his attacks were without tactics his defense non-existent. he relied solely on his uber sword as if it would assure a win.

if the general was as skilled as the implication that real natural talent at swordsmanship outweighs stats and even equipment values then he wouldn't have fought like a bull in a china shop and would have had real sword-skill and the weapons bonus trait would simply enhance the skill to the demise of his opponents.

that wasn't the case. so why would a high stat player with a uber sword who relies on brute force approach fighting. be called the strongest player if the game relies on true swordsmanship. there would be many players who could dance circles around him and his sword.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:50 am Reply with quote
Probably becaus in that fight all he needed was to use the sword, he wanted to demean Kirito more than beat him. And he was taken by complete surprise about Kirito's suden dual weilding, so fast and furious that he did not have time to think.
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dragoneyes001



Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:25 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Probably becaus in that fight all he needed was to use the sword, he wanted to demean Kirito more than beat him. And he was taken by complete surprise about Kirito's suden dual weilding, so fast and furious that he did not have time to think.


see there's the problem a real swordsman doesn't fall apart at a change in fighting style by the opponent. what makes someone good is adaptability to reach the top he'd have to have faced pretty much every style of attacks and dual wielding is a very common choice for sword fighting. people would be choosing all sorts of swords by preference to styles they can excel at epee,long sword,two handed,katana,short sword...etc.. each has pro's and con's yet they all have their own styles and to be accounted as the strongest player you'd have to have beaten them all or at least so many that you wouldn't be incapable of thinking just because the fight got fast and furious.

just a quick example of pro's and con'sSurprisedn foot a person in full plate armor wielding a two handed sword is at a distinct disadvantage when faced with someone in light leather and wielding a rapier. why? because the rapier can be plunged into all the joints of the armor and the light leather allows all the mobility to evade the slow as molasses swings of the two handed sword plus the three hundred pounds of steel armor makes the plated person move like a turtle. yet when mounted and charging a battle line the plated person has a huge advantage because the horses movement makes the joints almost impossible to target and the armor really does defend. the two handed sword will also cut swaths through whatever its swung at without losing much momentum on impacts increasing its effectiveness as the person moves forward on the horse.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18186
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:00 pm Reply with quote
If the General is one of the most experienced and dedicated ALO players (which seems likely) then I find it entirely reasonable that he's never had to adjust his fighting style because it's always been good enough before, especially with that tricky sword of his. Any of the front-line SAO players who had their skill levels high enough to use suitable equipment and master flying probably could have beaten (or at the very least seriously challenged) the General because they have vastly more, and more intensive, fighting experience; however, I seriously doubt few or any of them would be playing ALO and certainly wouldn't have had time to get their skill levels up high enough (and with sufficient equipment!) without a cheat like Kirito's. Thus it's no wonder that the General was caught off guard.

Anyway, that's all my commentary for this episode. I'll be back when today's ep has aired and we see what's up with spoiler[the brains and that tongue/tentacle].


Last edited by Key on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EmbraceMe



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 2013
Location: Growing old and jaded.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:20 pm Reply with quote
I've come to the realization that Sword Art Online (and its successors) are deconstructions of MMORPGs.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1377
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:46 pm Reply with quote
EmbraceMe wrote:
I've come to the realization that Sword Art Online (and its successors) are deconstructions of MMORPGs.
How utterly postmodern
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:48 pm Reply with quote
dragoneyes001 wrote:
if this is the case then the general should never have been called the strongest player. his attack skill relied so heavily on the swords special ability,he may as well have been a noob who bought an uber account.

And when, exactly, did he pick up his super-amazing sword? How high had his skill levels been before he obtained it? And didn't they say that he could only use it two-handed once his level reached 950? So he had to obtain a considerable level of skill before he could even use it that way. Considering how big it is, I'm not sure if you can even wield it as a 1h weapon.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1377
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:12 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
dragoneyes001 wrote:
if this is the case then the general should never have been called the strongest player. his attack skill relied so heavily on the swords special ability,he may as well have been a noob who bought an uber account.

And when, exactly, did he pick up his super-amazing sword? How high had his skill levels been before he obtained it? And didn't they say that he could only use it two-handed once his level reached 950? So he had to obtain a considerable level of skill before he could even use it that way. Considering how big it is, I'm not sure if you can even wield it as a 1h weapon.

I agree with this, the info from the light novels not in the anime combined with the wish-fulfillment aspect make the plotholes big enough to drive trucks through. But hey, at least we get treated to Hentai-like content today, so I guess we should be grateful, right?
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getchman
Space Cowboy



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9120
Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:15 pm Reply with quote
eh, im not really a tentacle fan
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1377
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:39 pm Reply with quote
Episode 21:
Not as hentai as I thought, but Asuna spoiler[got back to the kitchen cage as we expected evil!villain!dude would win this round.] Question: spoiler[why didn't she just patiently wait until the slimes left?]

Otherwise, it was OK. I am getting rather tired of the crappy imouto nonsense. It does nothing for me emotionally. How much longer do we have to put up with that forced drama? Ah, what an otaku panderfest. Oh well that is to be expected.

One other note, if it is true what was said about skills, then that seems all the more reason to round up help from the previous SAO top players including Kline, Agil, and Lizbeth. I hope what Theron said is true and we'll be seeing them come into the picture soon.


Last edited by dragon695 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:02 pm Reply with quote
So they finally arrive at the world tree.
spoiler[That server maintenance was rather conveniently put.
At least she found out what a horrible man her fiance is.
Darn, she was so close to escaping... it's so not fair.
I guess Kirito is her white knight who will rescue her after all.
Oh man, Leafa is actually Kirito's sister with a serious big brother complex.]

That's just not good..
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 1034
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:24 pm Reply with quote
getchman wrote:
eh, im not really a tentacle fan


But it makes sense in the context of the story. Because if you could take any form in a game, you'd go with a gelatinous blob with tons of tentacles to manipulate controls instead of just doing everything directly with your ... okay, it doesn't make a bit of sense. The author decided to pander to the lowest of all otaku fetishes and didn't even bother to come up with a logical reason for it.
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TatsuGero23



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1277
Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:47 pm Reply with quote
dragon695 wrote:
Episode 21:

Otherwise, it was OK. I am getting rather tired of the crappy imouto nonsense. It does nothing for me emotionally. How much longer do we have to put up with that forced drama? Ah, what an otaku panderfest. Oh well that is to be expected.


Actually is not an otaku thing. It's often used in general Japanese/Asian romances. It's a situation born from the culture itself and how they treat things like different family names, blood relation, and how they perceive the status of being cousins culturely.

Don't forget they are actually cousins. A good chunk of shows insert the cousin primarily for that romantic aspect and level of kinship that could exceed family-level of love. Which is comparable and sometimes exceeds the level of intimacy a normal couple would have at the point they are often introduced in a story. It might not hit overseas fans the same way but it definitely strikes a cord in most Asian viewers. Doesn't make it any less weird but there is a romantic aspect to it too. Not just an ecchi one.


Last edited by TatsuGero23 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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