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NEWS: Iron Knight Manga Ends in Weekly Shonen Jump


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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:32 am Reply with quote
L'Imperatore wrote:
Ehh, even Nobuhiro Watsuki's work right after finishing super-popular Rurouni Kenshin (forget the title, but it had western setting) got axed. That's competition in in WSJ for you.

Don't be down, Mr. Yagi. Experience is the best teacher! Very Happy

(Btw, looking at the author's name, I can't help but thinking the one who draws Claymore)


Because if you have one excellent work is impossible for you to do bad things later, right?
Look at the case of Nobuhiro Watsuki, he did Rurouni Kenshin, it was mega popular, after that he made "Gun Blaze West" that was bad an only took 10 chapters. After that fail he returned and made Busou Renkin that survived for two years(in reality more like 1.5 year, basically 79 chapters) and even had an anime. It wasn't as popular as Rurouni Kenshin, but it was popular none the less.

While experience is good, is not a guarantee of quality work. The important is a work with quality, not an author with experience. Don't confuse the two please.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:51 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
It's just bad. They should learn from Hollywood's century of creativity.


How was the Hollywood's century of creativity?

You're talking of two completely two different media and two completely different and not comparable entities inside those media. Making a movie is expensive and time consuming, comparable with doing an anime, not a manga. Making a manga isn't expensive(not as much as a movie) nor time consuming(In 1 year an author can very well make 52 chapters of his manga, that can very well be is entire story. An author only need 1 week to do one chapter).
Weekly Shonen Jump isn't the Manga Industry. Your should be comparing Hollywood's century of creativity with the Manga Industry.

Weekly Shonen Jump have in average each decade 120 new titles running in it, and 20 of them turn out to be super famous(Note that each decade they in average complete their list of 20 manga running). I don't believe any Hollywood movie studio have those kind of numbers, not even in "the century of creativity".


Last edited by bigivel on Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:00 am Reply with quote
simona.com wrote:
I really liked it but I knew it wouldn't last.
It was a bit too brutal for Jump in a way (Y_Y)


There is no such thing as being too brutal for Jump.
True that Jump probably don't want to much brutal stuff, given that they are the most popular magazine, and so the magazine with the risk of more complains, and given that they are a magazine for teenagers(and unfortunately(or fortunately) with a significant number of younger people(younger thtan teenagers, kids basically) reading the magazine).
But that has nothing to do with anything that sees the light of day, that is serialized. When a work is serialized the only thing that is seen is the quality, by the eyes of the costumers(the 2.7 Million readers of the magazine. So saying that is too brutal for Jump, is basically saying that it is too brutal for the majority of those 2.7 Million Japanese readers) and the eyes of experts(the editors).
Iron Knight was cancelled because it wasn't good enough in GENERAL not because it was too brutal. Weekly Shonen Jump already had brutal series, more brutal than Iron Knight and they were very popular. Look at Hokuto no Ken for an example.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10848

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:04 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:

Weekly Shonen Jump have in average each decade 120 new titles running in it, and 20 of them turn out to be super famous(Note that each decade they in average complete their list of 20 manga running). I don't believe any Hollywood movie studio have those kind of numbers, not even in "the century of creativity".


Not one studio but Hollywood as a whole, and they've been pretty damn creative. And it's not just movies; they do TV too, among others.
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L'Imperatore



Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:42 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:

Because if you have one excellent work is impossible for you to do bad things later, right?
Look at the case of Nobuhiro Watsuki, he did Rurouni Kenshin, it was mega popular, after that he made "Gun Blaze West" that was bad an only took 10 chapters. After that fail he returned and made Busou Renkin that survived for two years(in reality more like 1.5 year, basically 79 chapters) and even had an anime. It wasn't as popular as Rurouni Kenshin, but it was popular none the less.

While experience is good, is not a guarantee of quality work. The important is a work with quality, not an author with experience. Don't confuse the two please.

In case I didn't make myself clear, this is what I meant:
Competition in WSJ is so tough that if your work stays at the bottom for several weeks in a row, wham, no mercy. If it's bad, it's bad. Readers won't like it. They won't give a damn about who you are: a promising newcomer with promising 1st chapter or a veteran with high-profile previous work(s).

That being said, for newcomer like Mr. Yagi, this is a good learning experience. Hopefully this failure can spur him to improve the quality of his future works. As for Mr. Watsuki's case, where his Gun Blaze West (thanks, now I remember the title Smile ) got axed... well, consider it a dent on a somewhat shiny BMW.
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Randomfart



Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:26 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
Text

Literally did not bother to read even 1/7th of your post. And judging by the amount of effort you put into this discussion as a whole, I feel it's my duty as a human being to advise you to go outside and try different things in life, because you're getting overly emotional over a ridiculous issue.

And don't even try to defend Shounen Jump in it's creativity, there isn't a single title in it that you could even remotely consider as such. It's not something you can even debate over, it's just a waste of time.
A creative title is something like "Vagabond" or "Historie". Not the industrialized waste that's being produced in Shounen Jump.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Randomfart wrote:
bigivel wrote:
Text

Literally did not bother to read even 1/7th of your post. And judging by the amount of effort you put into this discussion as a whole, I feel it's my duty as a human being to advise you to go outside and try different things in life, because you're getting overly emotional over a ridiculous issue.

And don't even try to defend Shounen Jump in it's creativity, there isn't a single title in it that you could even remotely consider as such. It's not something you can even debate over, it's just a waste of time.
A creative title is something like "Vagabond" or "Historie". Not the industrialized waste that's being produced in Shounen Jump.


LOL, you're saying that historical manga are creative? LOL, that is a first. So I will tell the story of Hitler, that will be so much creative Rolling Eyes
Those are all real life stories, that did in fact happened. In vagabond the story of Musashi, for many considered the best samurai in existence.
Historie is about Macedon and Alexander the Great.

You certainly being sarcastic, is impossible that someone would call creative the historical genre and not creative the fantasy genre.
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Randomfart



Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:31 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:

LOL, you're saying that historical manga are creative? LOL, that is a first. So I will tell the story of Hitler, that will be so much creative Rolling Eyes
Those are all real life stories, that did in fact happened. In vagabond the story of Musashi, for many considered the best samurai in existence.
Historie is about Macedon and Alexander the Great.

You certainly being sarcastic, is impossible that someone would call creative the historical genre and not creative the fantasy genre.


You're completely confused if you think the works represent accurate accountings of the actual events.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:44 am Reply with quote
Randomfart wrote:
bigivel wrote:

LOL, you're saying that historical manga are creative? LOL, that is a first. So I will tell the story of Hitler, that will be so much creative Rolling Eyes
Those are all real life stories, that did in fact happened. In vagabond the story of Musashi, for many considered the best samurai in existence.
Historie is about Macedon and Alexander the Great.

You certainly being sarcastic, is impossible that someone would call creative the historical genre and not creative the fantasy genre.


You're completely confused if you think the works represent accurate accountings of the actual events.


If doesn't matter if is accurate or not. They are based in something already established.
Vagabond is based on a novel that is based on the actual life of Musashi, so it has basically no creativity.
The world in any historical manga is 90% no original from the beginning, a lot of his events aren't original either.
You're probably are confusing creativity by overall quality of a work.
The quality of a work has nothing to do with creativity. Creative works well executed will draw more attention, but that is all. A remake can be as popular as any manga and it has little of originality.
Shonen Jump titles attract a lot of readers because they have a lot of originality. They still keep their demographic, their genre and the magazine touch to them; but that happens with any magazine, because each magazine has his identity.
Look at Vagabond and Historie, they are respectively in the morning magazine and in the afternoon magazine. Two sister Seinen magazines from Kodansha. Is easiy to see those two titles have a more similar feeling to them than other title from Shonen Jump. From starter Shonen Jump doesn't do Historical titles(It had at least one in the past, but in the last decade certainly it didn't had any).
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Randomfart



Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:42 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
Randomfart wrote:
bigivel wrote:

LOL, you're saying that historical manga are creative? LOL, that is a first. So I will tell the story of Hitler, that will be so much creative Rolling Eyes
Those are all real life stories, that did in fact happened. In vagabond the story of Musashi, for many considered the best samurai in existence.
Historie is about Macedon and Alexander the Great.

You certainly being sarcastic, is impossible that someone would call creative the historical genre and not creative the fantasy genre.


You're completely confused if you think the works represent accurate accountings of the actual events.


If doesn't matter if is accurate or not. They are based in something already established.
Vagabond is based on a novel that is based on the actual life of Musashi, so it has basically no creativity.
The world in any historical manga is 90% no original from the beginning, a lot of his events aren't original either.
You're probably are confusing creativity by overall quality of a work.
The quality of a work has nothing to do with creativity. Creative works well executed will draw more attention, but that is all. A remake can be as popular as any manga and it has little of originality.
Shonen Jump titles attract a lot of readers because they have a lot of originality. They still keep their demographic, their genre and the magazine touch to them; but that happens with any magazine, because each magazine has his identity.
Look at Vagabond and Historie, they are respectively in the morning magazine and in the afternoon magazine. Two sister Seinen magazines from Kodansha. Is easiy to see those two titles have a more similar feeling to them than other title from Shonen Jump. From starter Shonen Jump doesn't do Historical titles(It had at least one in the past, but in the last decade certainly it didn't had any).


What are you even talking about? You are not seriously saying that historical works cannot be creative, are you?
The setting is historical, but the events manufactured are fictional. That is creativity, and the quality and depth of the fiction in question defines the extent of it.

Shounen Jump series all follow the same pattern, with cardboard cut characters and the same progression, with a slightly switched up setting. When the events are predetermined is when a work isn't creative, not the other way 'round. The setting may or may not be creative, but it doesn't rule the creativity of the work.
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