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dtm42 wrote:

Ignatz wrote:

Unicorn_Blade, if you don't like it, then why do you have it rated as Very good?

Maybe because they understood it is a good series even though they didn't like it?

I've given plenty of high ratings to shows I disliked but which were good. I've also given countless low ratings to shows I liked but which were bad. To judge something fairly means putting aside your personal feelings.

You know what, dtm42, I guess I will use this opportunity here to thoroughly examine your list. You obviously haven't dropped your old habit of claiming to be an objectivist, so, with that in mind, I would love to see you explain how in the world you managed to rate Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, Elfen Lied, and No Game, No Life higher than Mouryou no Hako, Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze, and everything directed by Satoshi Kon.

Elfen Lied is a much better show than Texhnolyze. Yup, that seems totally fair... Rolling Eyes

But it is. Texhnolyze is dreary nonsense while Elfen Lied is entertaining nonsense. That makes it much better.

What part of Texhnolyze do you find nonsensical?

Ignatz wrote:

Elfen Lied is a much better show than Texhnolyze. Yup, that seems totally fair... Rolling Eyes

I think everything is subjective. Like the old saying goes, "Another man's garbage is another man's treasure."

I'm telling you, it's always the anime fans that are having so much trouble with understanding this. The only problem I have with anime fans are overrating the certain anime than it deserves overlooking all the plotholes. I thought Puella Madoka was pretty good but not the second coming of anime the typical anime fans seem to regard it as.

last exile was ok until I knottiest the off center eyes of some of the characters and the fact that they didn't explain It well enough for me to enjoy the end

Ignatz wrote:

You know what, dtm42, I guess I will use this opportunity here to thoroughly examine your list.

It's always nice when someone actually bothers to read my list, so I'm happy that you did.

Ignatz wrote:

You obviously haven't dropped your old habit of claiming to be an objectivist, so, with that in mind, I would love to see you explain how in the world you managed to rate Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, Elfen Lied, and No Game, No Life higher than Mouryou no Hako, Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze, and everything directed by Satoshi Kon.

Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (specifically the first season) is extremely well made, features exciting mecha battles and a very interesting setting, and has one of the best anti-heroes in anime history.

No Game, No Life is extremely funny, at least in my opinion. Humour is and will always be subjective, though that said the series displays great comedic timing which is a more objective trait. Anyway, don't just think the grade is based on humour alone; it's only a small part of it. What really sold me on the show was how intelligent it is. This is an incredibly smart show with genuinely smart lead characters, and the games themselves are amazing in how they are won. The themes are also excellent. It's not just the usual "humans are awesome rah rah" spiel that shows like TTGL hit us with, but rather, "Humans are weak, but that just means we've learned to survive better than anyone else in a world filled with real monsters and actual gods". Just because the show has lots of fanservice in it does not - le gasp - make it bad.

Mouryou no Hako I rated fairly highly; it is at Very Good. And yes, it is a smart series with lots of fantastic ideas. But half the show is just people talking (usually at a table) droning on with dry exposition. The second half of the show was a slog, even for me. In terms of storytelling quality it is very, very clunky.

Serial Experiments Lain is also rated at Very Good by me, so I'm not claiming that it's crap by any means. The symbolism is undeniably strong and intricate, the themes are deep, but the thing is, there are less obtuse ways to tell a story. If I can't care about any of the characters then what's the point?

Texhnolyze is also obtuse and dry, except unlike the two shows above it is also pretentious as heck. It thinks it is intellectually deep when really it's just stuck far up its own arse. Stuck so far, in fact, that Lain by comparison looks like a romantic comedy.

I'm not a fanboy of Satoshi Kon who worships the ground he treads on, but I do think he is a good director - just not a great one. I'll point out that his most conventional work - Tokyo Godfathers - is also the one I rated the highest (a grade of Excellent). I also found his work on Magnetic Rose (he wrote it) to be very effective. As for Paranoia Agent, I watched that one in the infancy of being an anime fan and I've been meaning to revisit it; that grade will probably go up when I do.

Ignatz wrote:

Elfen Lied is a much better show than Texhnolyze. Yup, that seems totally fair... Rolling Eyes

Okay, there's no question that Elfen Lied has some parts in it that don't work well (or at all). The whole spoiler[incest thing where Yuka gets upset because Kouta won't bang her] is facepalming, and the whole bit with spoiler[infantile Nyuu] is just skeevy. But the show is not afraid to tackle some really meaty social issues, the central theme of whether monsters are born or created is handled very well, and the show does have a strong emotional impact where you care what is happening to the characters. Texhnolyze however handled the characters so atrociously that I actively wanted them all to die in a nuclear explosion. Well, I would have also been content with a flood of acid.

You know, I'm going to use some of the explanations for the comment section of my list. Might as well.

Ignatz wrote:

What part of Texhnolyze do you find nonsensical?

OK. I'll fess up. I was being glib.

However, to put it more mildly, the prospects of the scenarios in either show coming to pass are unlikely and thus their relative merits depend largely upon how well they execute their particular vision. While both have a pessimistic worldview I found Elfen Lied had numerous elements that engaged me while Texhnolyze had few. Indeed, for a series that had so little to say, it was quite an accomplishment that Texhnolyze could spin its ideas out for as many episodes as it did. (Oh no. I'm straying into hyperbole again. Stop now, dammit.)

dtm42 wrote:

Texhnolyze is also obtuse and dry, except unlike the two shows above it is also pretentious as heck. It thinks it is intellectually deep when really it's just stuck far up its own arse. Stuck so far, in fact, that Lain by comparison looks like a romantic comedy.

I'm struggling to understand how people come to the conclusion that Texhnolyze is pretentious. It explores its complex world, deep characters (almost all major characters have their own unique motivations, goals, and philosophies), and thought-provoking themes (the merging of humans with technology, the negative impacts of said technology, post-apocalyptic messages ranging from the fall of man to the meaningless of life, and so on) like nothing else I've ever seen. If anything, these three threads should be more than enough to silence anyone who wants to say that Texhnolyze is pretentious.

Also, just because the viewers need to do a little work to understand the show doesn't mean it's pretentious (hell, your favorite anime is RahXephon, so you should know better). A pretentious show is one that simply makes allusions to interesting ideas, without actually exploring them. Ergo Proxy and The Garden of Sinners are the perfect examples of that.

dtm42 wrote:

Ignatz wrote:

Elfen Lied is a much better show than Texhnolyze. Yup, that seems totally fair... Rolling Eyes

Okay, there's no question that Elfen Lied has some parts in it that don't work well (or at all). The whole spoiler[incest thing where Yuka gets upset because Kouta won't bang her] is facepalming, and the whole bit with spoiler[infantile Nyuu] is just skeevy. But the show is not afraid to tackle some really meaty social issues, the central theme of whether monsters are born or created is handled very well, and the show does have a strong emotional impact where you care what is happening to the characters. Texhnolyze however handled the characters so atrociously that I actively wanted them all to die in a nuclear explosion. Well, I would have also been content with a flood of acid.

Well, I already addressed Texhnolyze. And here, even you yourself provide some arguments against Elfen Lied. Honestly, the show is so full of distasteful fan service, harem romance clichés, laughably unrealistic developments, and so much blood being cheaply thrown about, that I simply don't care about any of the social issues it tries to tackle. It should be pretty obvious that the main intent of the show is the sex and violence appeal for the male audience, and not something intelligent like Texhnolyze.

So, that being said, I just can't comprehend how can you rate Elfen Lied as Excellent (9/10), Texhnolyze as Awful (1/10), and claim it to be an objective evaluation...

dtm42 wrote:

As for Paranoia Agent, I watched that one in the infancy of being an anime fan and I've been meaning to revisit it; that grade will probably go up when I do.

You should probably do the same with Texhnolyze too, considering it's even more in need of a better grade than Paranoia Agent.

Uh, it's not an unpopular anime opinion necessarily, but it's an unpopular opinion...

I currently have more interest in watching the TMNT 2012 animated series and RWBY than any recent anime. It's not that I think no anime look interesting - I want to pick up Mushishi Zoku, JoJo: Stardust, Free!, and Yamishibai eventually, and I'm watching Sailor Moon Crystal. I'm just finding those two shows more entertaining at this time. I love the quirky characters, and the humor is more my style.

dtm42 wrote:

Okay, there's no question that Elfen Lied has some parts in it that don't work well (or at all). The whole spoiler[incest thing where Yuka gets upset because Kouta won't bang her] is facepalming, and the whole bit with spoiler[infantile Nyuu] is just skeevy. But the show is not afraid to tackle some really meaty social issues, the central theme of whether monsters are born or created is handled very well, and the show does have a strong emotional impact where you care what is happening to the characters.

I have little doubt that the core themes of Elfen Lied are intriguing, it's just a shame that the story itself was executed with a ridiculous amount of plot conveniences alongside those skeevy moments you brought up.

Though it pains me to admit it, I don't like Mushi-shi much at all.

It's a series that I really, really want to like: it's well-made, intelligently written, and refreshingly lacking in schoolgirls, lolis, or any other typical anime cliches. But for me it has all the warmth and charm of a glacier: beautiful, but cold and austere to the point of numbness, followed by the painful onset of frostbite if you stick around too long.

There is not a single character in the whole series that I remember anything about other than Ginko (and he was such a cipher that I can't summon up any feeling other than "meh"). It doesn't help that they all have the same face, but even if they all had the most vividly unique character designs I don't think I'd find much to remember there due to their relative lack of personalities and the fact that most of them only stick around for one episode (which is not enough time for me to form much of an emotional attachment).

I've actually tried to complete the series on at least 3 separate occasions, always hoping that this episode will be the one that finally wins me over, that allows me to see what everyone else apparently sees in the series. And then the episode ends and I find myself blankly wondering "Is that it?" After repeating this cycle of hope followed by disappointment over the course of a couple of episodes I've always given up, because the frustration mounts to the point where I want to rip some of my hair out.

willag wrote:

Uh, it's not an unpopular anime opinion necessarily, but it's an unpopular opinion...

I currently have more interest in watching the TMNT 2012 animated series and RWBY than any recent anime. It's not that I think no anime look interesting - I want to pick up Mushishi Zoku, JoJo: Stardust, Free!, and Yamishibai eventually, and I'm watching Sailor Moon Crystal. I'm just finding those two shows more entertaining at this time. I love the quirky characters, and the humor is more my style.

I don't know you anymore!!!!

^Hmm? Who are you again?

I don't like Space Dandy. So sue me. :p

It's simply too weird....

Chiibi wrote:

I don't like Space Dandy. So sue me. :p

It's simply too weird....

Sue you? As much as I'd love to sue your pants off (er, that came out wrong. . . ), I'm actually going to agree with you on this one.

I can see that Space Dandy is a well-produced show with a great sense of style and lots of creativity. It isn't bad. But I don't like it at all. Okay, fine, I enjoyed a couple of the episodes - especially the zombie one. But the show as a whole? Hell no. It's too stupid, too random and too inconsequential for me to care about it. The animators and storyboarders are obviously having a blast, but not me.

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