Forum - View topicTokyo Ghoul (TV) (both seasons).
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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Episode 8 wasn't terrible, but it wasn't that good either. I had my expectations raised slightly from the tension toward the end of episode 7, but this just didn't really deliver for me. I think the main problem was that the sentimentality and "WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!??" dramatic scenes of people reaching skyward in heavy rain was extremely overdone.
Additionally, Kaneki's development is still dragging along in its completely expected mega slow burn. I assume we won't see him grow a pair until the final episode. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 8
Had a few really good scenes, most notably being where we see spoiler[each side asking the other why they exist and if they feel the other's pain], the action was super good and spoiler[finishing with Hinami] was awesome. My response of seeing Hinami's spoiler[wing like appendages was that she was like an angel, maybe twisted but I thought of it as kind of beautiful.]. After the episode I think I got an idea behind the motivations of the doves. The younger guy by the sounds of it spoiler[was one of the children who lost his parents to Ghouls], while the older guy at least spoiler[lost his wife, more specifically it sounds like the wife was taken by the one eyed human/ghoul hybrid]. |
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Lain'sHairline
 Posts: 158 Location: Dallas, TX |
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FINALLY.
The bug-eyed pantywaist is dead, and the world celebrated. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I had the reverse action to ChibiKangaroo; even though the playout of events was fairly predictable, I thought it was actually the best-executed and most impactful episode so far. Very much liked the juxtapositions between the sewer and outdoor scenes as it looked at things from both perspectives; in fact, the series' emphasis on doing so over the last couple of episodes has, I felt, been its strongest point.
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I will say that the second half of the episode's scenes with Hinami were pretty good. I wasn't expecting spoiler[her to become as strong as she did. It was a pleasant surprise, and as others have mentioned, kind of darkly beautiful in some ways. I think that contrast though between her inner strength and Kaneki's inner weakness might have made his weakness even more distasteful for me.] However, spoiler[her turnaround] wasn't enough to make this an epic episode for me. To have every single character fall into a pit of sentimentality like that was just too much. They even went the extra step of justaposing sentimental speeches between characters, so they were finishing each others sentences and whatnot. Was there some genuine emotion there? Yes. But it was a flood of stuff all at once, and I think each character was drowning out the others' moments (pun intended  ).
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Moral dilemmas are a topic that ANY good story involving killing should have in it. These matters should never be black and white (like Akame ga Kill seems to try to do far to often). spoiler[If you want a recent example in real life a man was recently killed because the U.S did not pay the ransom for his freedom in time.
Many people could argue that a human life should ALWAYS be put over money. But guess what? These same terrorists have been doing these ransoms with Europe for a long time now and have raised millions upon MILLIONS of dollars because of it. All that have to do is threaten to kill someone and they can score all the money they ever wanted. America doesn’t want to get caught in that scheme of course. After all, continuing to give into the demands of terrorists is stupid no matter how you slice it. So how do they attack the issue? They try everything they can to rescue the captive before they can be killed. They take the enemy by surprise after they’ve found them and attempt to rescue them. Take note that many lives are in risk when such a thing is done. But they are willing to put their lives on the line to rescue them. Sadly it didn’t work this time. However that’s the point I’m trying to make here.] spoiler[People finding a moral middle ground in situations like this. And that’s the appeal behind the series.] Sometimes there aren’t any answers for making people understand each other. Understandably so in this case. But you can bet people are going to fight against that fate no matter how hard they have to try. That is what makes the series hit so close to home for me. By all means humans have a right to want ghouls gone because their very existence poses a danger to them. If i remember correctly one human body will only keep a ghoul from going hungry for about 1 week. Needless to say it would be a messy business trying to organize a way to satisfy them and not piss off the people who want a proper burial. However just as all life they just want to live. They did not have a choice in the matter that they were born Ghouls. They are capable of human understanding and emotions as well. That’s what makes the issue here. Humans are not wrong for wanting Ghouls to die. However on the flipside Ghouls are not wrong in simply wanting to live, a function that nearly every creature on this earth wishes for. And exacting revenge on either side when you don't understand how deeply it could possibly effect their loved ones doesn't help anyone. If anything it only makes the tension between the races worse. I love it  .
Oddly enough I’ve never found myself annoyed by Kankei’s weakness. In fact I think it makes him a stronger character. If he just went around killing everyone in his way he would not be able understand each sides reasons for hating each other. He’d probably end up like Touka just going around picking fights with people who upset her. Which would ruin the point the show is trying to make. He’s the bridge for humans and Ghouls to understand each other. And the more powerful someone is the less likely they will be willing to try to reason with people who disagree with them (pretty much the case with every villain in the show so far). The fact he’s weak let’s him experience the cruelty of both humans and ghouls while being able to look into their way of thinking. Again works just fine for this story. While he was getting beat up he was gradually understanding Amon's point of view. Something that would have been accomplished had he laid the smackdown on him immediately. |
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batou37
 Posts: 455 |
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I was glad to finally see a small bit of development in Kaneki's carachter this episode. Still a little lacking compared to what I'd have like to have seen but this point. but at least it's something. I think I remember a few episodes back someone mentioning something about how him being a one-eyed ghoul made him more powerful than a normal ghould (or at least the capacity to become stronger at least) is that correct? But he can't use his strength because he hasn't been feeding other than the coffee? Just trying to clear it up in my mind.
The one sticking point for me that is really holding me back from liking this show is that I do not remember them ever addressing any attempts to find a substitute for their normal feeding requirements. You would at least think a large effort to do this would have been made by both parties, humans and ghouls. I understand that it is a basis of the show that they are stuck in the position of what they have to eat and this is where the drama and conflict comes from but I just have a fundamental problem with it. Can cloned meat not be used? Some other possible solution? Has it been explained at some point and I am just missing something? |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I don't think anyone makes a Beano for ghouls. Their accommodation is to peacefully feed off of pre-killed humans such as accident victims or other unclaimed morgue residents. That strikes me as a reasonable accommodation. Mado got only a fraction of what he deserved. That post-ending-credits skit is twisted. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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leatherhead333, that you put it in spoiler tags doesn't avoid the fact that you were soapboxing - and off-topic soapboxing, too. Make this a one-shot deal.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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I really liked episode 8. After kind of bobbling for me, this show has regained its balance and become interesting, again. I love how everyone really has a justifiable point of view even while doing things that are not justifiable.
I am absolutely delighted that spoiler[Mado is dead.] If that had been the only thing that happened in the eppie, it would have been enough to make me love it. Hinami saying,spoiler[ I don't care about revenge. I just miss my mom and my dad. I'm sad.] was just heart-breaking. Really, really interested to see where things go from here. |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I dont think they addressed it but consider somethings. First both sides would have to see each other as sentient beings deserving of respect and life. The Ghouls see the normal humans as just food and the humans see the Ghouls as just monsters needing to be exterminated. Then when you have beings like Rize "the binge eater" and Mado on the other side its difficult for either side to see each other as nothing but monsters. Its therefore hard for both parties to find common ground to come up with a solution like what you suggest. There's also the question of education and economics. In one sense the Ghouls seem to be an almost underclass of society. Hinami hasn't had any formal education, Nishiki and others came from poor backgrounds and most of this is because its difficult to blend in with human society. Its difficult to rise above your economic class and get a first class education if you have to hide your identity because you are hunted and lack the financial means to get an education. So probably, there's a lack of scientists on the ghoul side and the human side is more preoccupied with creating ways to kill them. Plus, it seems so far that ghouls maybe territorial and will fight each other making cooperation difficult even among themselves. The last 2 episodes have been better, before it was a little uneven for me. I wish it was a 24-26 episode show. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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I would actually like to know how long Ghouls have existed. I'd imagine they haven't been around as long as regular humans. That way it could sort of clear up how one sided the racism is. It Ghouls have only existed for a short time then it's pretty reasonable that humans haven't really opened up to the idea of coexisting with them yet. If a long time has passed though I'd think there would have been some attempt to work with them. Still I'd say humans would feel a need to have some kind of control over them so they could prevent any issues. After all Ghouls can be very manipulative as we've seen.
Also if there were alternatives for ghouls to eat I think they would have already tried them already. For whatever reason human meat is the only thing they can eat. So raw meat from animals wouldn't work either. I'm not quite sure why coffee works for them though. |
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One-Eye
Posts: 2261 |
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I don't recall them ever saying that Ghouls go back to ancient times, unlike say a vampire story might do. In one sense its really odd that they haven't mentioned any history of the ghouls or where they came from or when they first appeared. Just that alone makes it feel that they are perhaps a recent phenomenon (maybe something like last 50 years?) and that's why the humans are still struggling to understand their nature. This is just speculation on my part but it wouldn't surprise me if the Ghouls were originally human creations. It might be a little cliched, but we haven't seen any other evidence to the contrary or anything pointing to a divergent origin. They are just here, bang. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Most likely ghouls are the result of some secret military bio-weapon experiment that got out of hand. IT has all the marks of it.
And I would bet money that Mado had some deep involvement in it. |
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Lain'sHairline
Posts: 158 Location: Dallas, TX |
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Yeah. We haven't seen the botched attempt at weaponizing an uncontrollable, savage organism in anime before. Oh look, a new plant. Let's use it to kill people! Ha ha. |
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