Forum - View topicPlayStation 4 Reaches 10 Million Units Sold Worldwide
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iloveturkey
 Posts: 70 |
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Nothing is 'objectively better'. It's all opinion.
The reason Japanese games sell in America is the same reason anime and manga sell in America. They exist to serve a demand that domestic products are not fulfilling. America may the king of shooters, but for those that do not like shooters, they need to find alternatives. If that means buying Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Mario, and other games then they will go to those games since those demands are not being supplied by their own country. The reason western games generally do not sell in Japan is because all their demands are being met already. America can offer shooters, and while a few of those might end up selling decently in Japan, they also have franchises like Resident Evil which can satisfy their shooter itch on their own.
One of your links is a blog that criticizes why huge JRPGs like Final Fantasy are not being cranked out year after year like the multi-player shooters of Epic Games. The absurdity and false equivalencies of that article are amazing. I can still remember all the music, environments, aesthetics, story, and characters of every single Final Fantasy I've played just fine, but couldn't for the life of me recall the difference between UT2003 and UT2004, or the names of the marines in Gears of War. Putting time and effort into your product to make it a memorable and lasting experience should not be scorned. I was under the impression yearly rehashes were hated, but apparently I was wrong. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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Don't know why you're wasting your time arguing with Guile. He's exactly the kind of person who will make disingenuous and self serving points to make his view seem correct. He's exactly the kind of person who thinks unconditionally Japan is better and everything else is terrible. He won't listen to any other point then that. He'll make up reasons stay in his fantasy world.
Apparently he dosen't actually understand aesthetics, because he's talling about style. Nor does he understand art design. He seems to think going for realism takes no skill or thought. It's just "bam realistic". Which is dumb, because capturing the feel of something and it's look takes a whole lot of skill. Just as a more out there art direction would. Photo realism is a perfectly fine aesthetic choice and good graphics are in fact working to serve that aesthetic. Graphics and good art direction are the reason something like Grand Theft Auto 5 captures California and modern America and quite honestly it's pretty amazing at all the detail they got right. Battlefield 3/4 sure are going for the realistic military look, but they sure have thier own style. The use of color tones and shaders give BF a far more unique look then anything in CoD. BF does have a great since of style. Of course people like Guile just like to turn a blind eye. Of course if I were to say all this waifu anime crap looks the same, they'd tell me I'm wrong. Again there is fantastic and unique art direction going on in titles like Killzone, The Last of Us, Remember Me, Bioshock, Red Dead Red, Grand Theft Auto, Elder Scrolls, Guild Wars, Deus Ex, DMC, Mirror's Edge, Halo, Gears of War, and more. None of those games look at all the same even if they attempt to look more realistic. But why would any of this matter to the person who wanted to put all western games under the bus while praising Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Yes as if they don't attempt to look more realistic(yes even FF with it's attempt its more photo realistic people that look like dolls). But since they are Japanese, they don't get this criticism. But no I can think of a few things I would criticize Japanese games with and surprisingly they would almost match up with western criticisms. -Playing it safe. Too many of the same games from the same ips. Japanese companies seem unable to want to take actual risks these days and would rather whore out thier ips. -No new ips. When the last time Sqaure attempted something new on it's Japanese side? The Last Remnant? -Taking far too long with console games. No game should take as long as FF15 or TLG did and no this is not about actually about taking time to make a quality product. This is about outdated development practices that don't make any sense in this current generation. -I guess console development was too hard so Japanese developers just ran to mobile. -Too many cheaply made otaku games. It's a shame they are the face of the console market. -Little variety compared to the PS2 days. Lots of clones of MH, Square whoring out FF. Mario Mario Mario. Pokemon which is the same every time. It's nothing like the PS2 era where Japan was just putting out so many things. -art direction. Either it's your typical and disgusting moe crap or generic looking anime. There just hasn't been a lot of cool and imaginative looking Japanese games in a while. There was Asrua's Wrath which was amazing. Suda 51/Grasshopper sure keeps thier style going. FF still can crank out cool things, but these aren't the whole of Japanese games which kind of all look the same. Case in point the Tales series. There's probably a lot more. And it would be nice if iloveturkey would say things that have nothing to do with his made up opinions. The reason Japanese video games sell in America has little to do with anime. That may be why niche things like Tales and the crap NIS puts out sell, but that's not why Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Souls games, Mario/Nintendo's stuff, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Team Ico games, Dragon's Crown, Suda 51 games, or even animeish things like Ni No Kuni or Persona sell well. No for many of these franchisees it simply has to with the fact that they hit mainstream appeal at the right time. They have a long legacy associated with gaming. Lots of gamers grew up on these titles. It has little to do with anime as the anime audience is'nt going to be big enough to push these games into the high sales they receive. In a lot of these cases the fact that they are Japanese is hardly part of the appeal. Lets not forget, they were what was on consoles until the PS3/360 era. So you've really just proven that posters point. Many westerners do actually buy a variety of titles and don't shut-out games just because they aren't from thier country. Something you accuse western gamers of even though basically you are admitting that western gamers are actually a diverse group that dosen't just like one thing. And I hate to inform you. Games like CoD, Battlefield, TLOU, Grand Theft Auto, and even watchdogs are selling well in Japan. Better then thier own niche stuff like the crap Idea Factory puts out. And again please learn to read. The Japan Time's article says every other year, meaning two years. It's not calling for an anualization of Final Fantasy. It's point is it takes forever for them to make a video game. Which by the way your point about them taking time and thats a better product? Complete bullshit. It's like you don't remember, Final Fantasy games use to come out every year. There is not a big gap between 1-10's releases. You don't seem to understand the point the article is trying to bring up, because you have to defend everything Japan does while criticizing the west. Seriously, Gears has never been an annual series and while you may not remember the characters or story of Gears plenty of people do and plenty of people enjoy the universe and characters crafted in those games. I don't know why, but quite honestly it's no worse then any other video game, Japanese or not. But even the people behind Final Fantasy admit that they have problems with development. Either it comes from not having good management, not having unified engine, or wasting time on irrelevant things. Like spending too much time on asset generation that makes no sense. The old way of making Japanese console games made no sense in this HD generation where making assets is the longest and most costly part. Why don't you actually get informed on these things by reading XIII's post mortem or Yoshida P's talk on what went wrong in the original 14. Where they spent so much time on things like pots. The people behind Japanese games actually have a lot to say about Japanese console development and what they got wrong, I'm not sure why these supposed fans of Japanese games don't listen to them. No they'd rather say there are no criticisms when they criticisms are coming from the Japanese themselves. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I have a question: when was the last time you played a game that is not from Japan?? @Rahxephon91: yep, that's the impression I get from reading several users' delusional thought about Japanese gaming is better, when it's not.
I share the same thought too, and don't forget console sales in Japan has been on the decline, and it could get worse if the next tax hikes in Japan in 2015 can hurt the industry.
That's Japanophiles. disillusioned and thinking Japan is still on top, when they're not. I mean Japan's gaming market is going through hard time, I mean do they not read about Nintendo's sales have decline in 2nd quarter despite Mario Kart 8 high sales. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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That's fine. Many Western gamers feel the same way.
In many stretches Tales Of series is yearly; Gears of War series is not. We remember the names since we pay attention. |
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SynergyMan
Posts: 99 |
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@iloveturkey Not really. Based on the technology and sound systems, it's safe to say that the graphics in most western games are beyond that of most JP games, although plenty of JP games have western level graphics like FF-XIII, Metal Gear Solid 4 and RR, Resident Evil 5/6, so it depends on how much $ the Japanese wanna spend. Also, that excuse doesn't work. The manga market is about 3-4X bigger than the US comic market. In terms of manga and comics, Japan doesn't need other comics, because it produces enough on its own. When it comes to games, the US alone overtook it years ago and it produces more games than Japan, so in that sense, it's odd why Japan doesn't like western games. Don't wanna use the "x" word, but I might have to, considering some of the hate I've seen for non-Japanese games from a few Japanese gamers. But then again, the US market for animation is also several times larger(gross wise and even when movies aren't taken into consideration), but Japan produces about 20X more animation, meaning that at least in the animation regard, Japan can look after itself. For games, not so much. Also, as I've said before, it's about being good, not about nationality. Why does English music sell so well in Japan, but not games? If they can buy western music for its merits, then games have to be the same. Granted, sales=/=quality, but sales=recognition.
@Guile The creator and producer of Mega Man disagrees with you. He said the western industry risk wise was better. He said the JP community isn't as good as it was. Even Square of Japan's boss admitted this. True, there are problems here as well, like a focus on story and cutscenes over gameplay and a focus on DLC, but that's not as big as the problem in Japan, like the low budgets, the lack of interest of non-Japanese games, the console decline, the corner cutting, etc. |
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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Sorry if you took it that way, let me explain. Indie games have become overwhelming the past few years. There's a glut of them on Steam and other platforms these days and most of them, especially the more popular ones, are clones of other games with little to no originality. There was an article I read which summed up my feelings perfectly but I can't find it at the moment. The basis of the article was she loved Super Metroid, but hated every single indie clone of it that came out like Shadow Complex because all they do is copy, not create. There's no reason to play them over Super Metroid because they're just clones of it and do nothing with the genre other than pander. I feel the same way. Most indie games just copy and try to trigger nostalgic memories in people over making a memorable product. They focus on retro graphics and gameplay that is obviously ripped off older games. Recently there's games like Shovel Knight and Child of Light, both of which admit to copying games like Mega Man and Grandia. The issue being Mega Man and Grandia didn't copy anyone, they created their own revolutionary gameplay experience and that's why they're iconic. There's no reason to play these games instead of the source material. That's why I dislike most indie games. Their budgets don't allow them to stand up to normal games in terms of content, so when they try to emulate normal games there's little reason to play any of the hundreds of clones over the original one since they obviously can not match up to them. Indie gaming should be about creating new ideas, not milking old ones for a quick buck. |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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There's plenty of reason to play them, because they are good. Calling them clones is being very duplicitous. One, because I'm sure you have no problem playing many games that offer nothing genre breaking. Do you play Neptunia games?How about any video game at all? Because very few video games are actual original.
Shovel Knight is not a clone. Taking inspiration from 8 bit platformers and then doing something slightly different does not make you a clone. Child of Light is not an indie game and taking ideas from Grandia does not make you a clone. Forget the fact that it's a 2d sidescroller with a totally different tone and somewhat unique visuals, it's main influence from Grandia is it's use of the active bar. It dosen't really play like Grandia. Why play it? Well 1st Grandia is done and it's a solid game on it's own. I guess with your logic why should I play Bravely Default since it's just taking the job system from FF5 and copying it. I should just play FF5. Shadow Complex is'nt an indie game and yes it clearly takes influence from Metriod. So did Castlevannia Symphony of the Night and it's ilk. Should I not play those games even if they are good because Super Metriod did it first. That post is an incredibly ridiculous rationale that makes no sense. All games take influence from what came before and I'm sure you have no problem playing Japanese games that clearly take from thier peers. Of course you don't call them clones and probably don't complain about thier un-originality. Indie games are simply games, I'm not sure why someone would care if they also emulate other games. Not when they do it well. I don't think anyone even said they were original, just offering some uniqueness and variety. But sure sweep them all under the rug for truly made up reasons that I don't you ever hold to Japanese games. Because in the end labeling every game that happens to be independently made as unoriginal means nothing and is possibly the most ignorant statement a person can make. It's also meaningless the way you describe it because nothing is really original. Everything takes ques from something and either does nothing with it or puts some fresh spin on it. Plenty of indies games do that and do it unique personality and visuals. I also don't understand how all indie games are shallow. What is shallow about things like: Rogue Legacy, Shovel Knight, Fez, Kentucky Route Zero, FTL, Gone Home, Guacamelee, Paper's Please, CounterSpy, The Swapper, Reus, Brothers, and many more. What makes them apparently all bad and shallow games even though many are mechanically well made, unique or well done in thier visuals/art direction, and just in general not poorly made games. None of these games are clones. They do not rip from games wholesale. That is such a weak argument. I also doubt you have problems playing many games that take thier ques from other games so I doubt you are even consistent there. You are so willing to paint with such a big and broad strokes that all these games are bad, shallow, and unoriginal. It's kind of insane and with a laughable rationale as well. Please, just admit it. You simply dislike these games because they are not Japanese. Just get it over with because that is obviously your problem. Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14761 |
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Touhou games are hardly original; yet they're popular.
There's nothing new about 2D fighting games anymore (just play MAME). |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Yep, I share this same exact thought too (along with my observation). |
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