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Last edited by belvadeer on Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total

Quote:

Yet Capcom hasn't forgotten them entirely. Gargoyle's Quest 2 is out for the 3DS and Wii U eShop next week, and Demon's Crest will be available on the Wii U in the same way.

Pardon me while I let my eye twitch from how long it took Crapbomb to finally realize they needed to do this years ago and the fact they needed to do this one for the Wii.

Beatdigga wrote:

And all they have to show for is a really bad game and toy companies unwilling to work with them.

You keep insisting this, but, honestly, I feel like the people calling it bad probably have no real understanding of how the game works and why it could actually conceivably be bad.

(and I'm very ambivalent about calling it bad despite its flaws because the game plays and controls tighter than games that have probably had significantly larger budgets and production schedules than this game... I was more entertained by this game than trying to get my character to move around and do things in, say, GTAV, which felt like playing Street Fighter online and under water or something awful)

My main issue with the game is it seems like an issue of balance: Platinum has something good going on with the chi meter system, but there's stuff in place there that just throws out good design and makes the thing practically irrelevant...

(I pretty much had to handicap myself to get the most out of the game system)

Which is probably intentional since a lot of people probably couldn't handle the game on its regular difficulty setting without some kind of assistance (there's like some actual walls here and they have a bunch of busted items that essentially mows down all obstacles... on the bright side, having chi maxed out all the time looks really really cool).

Balancing around the chi meter system would have been an honestly pretty clever idea (I noticed a lot of characters in the game block, but this is made irrelevant because of the massive amounts of chip damage you can inflict... it would have been more interesting to have earth bending or max out chi be a guard break... missed opportunity), but Platinum offers too many ways to play the game and this becomes obscured.

But then, they kinda have to make it so that the player can customize his or her experience (they've been doing that for forever, really, and the games still probably sell like crap), because otherwise you end up with this weird God Hand situation where no one actually knows how to play the damn thing despite the simplicity of execution requirements compared to most games of its kind.

Man, I don't even know anything about Korra lol

So the main focus of the game is irrelevant and you have to intentionally restrain yourself to make it relevant?

That's horrid game design.

Beatdigga wrote:

So the main focus of the game is irrelevant and you have to intentionally restrain yourself to make it relevant?

That's horrid game design.

Pretty much, but most people probably wouldn't be able to really grasp the combat system and critique the game like how I just did.

The game is more of wasted potential than it is a game the plays like crap...

All the necessary systems for a good game are there, but, for whatever reason, Platinum had to restrain themselves (I don't know whose fault this is: Activision? The original creators? Who knows? I'm still kinda surprised that they were even asked to make the game... I'm still kinda surprised anyone gives them money in general)...

But this is probably better than just crapping out a game system without any real thought.

(because a good game in this scenario would necessitate trimming as opposed to refining the actual system further)

That aside, production quality kinda sucks (low enemy variety being the most obvious, though I find it interesting that each variety has some kind of main gimmick that you have to focus play around), but you can only get so much out of $15, I guess.

(the world is invaded by like... the same 3 dudes lol)

leafy sea dragon wrote:

Chrno2 wrote:

Well, I'm more referring to more recent games that have been based on movie franchises. And a good number of them often rate poorly. Some of the factors that come up is content and game mechanics. More than likely I'm generalizing based on what I have seen or heard. But if there are games based on popular animated shows that are good then I'll need to see more. As far as the Adventure Time game, well look at who we are dealing with? A team of creators that seem to know how to incorporate what they love and grew up with. So it's no surprise. But at the same time it could've gone wrong. But we do know that even some games that have issues it still can come off as a hidden underrated gem.

Adventure Time: Hey Ice King! was made by WayForward, which has had a history of making good games based on licensed properties.

Otherwise, as far as movie tie-ins go, the developers' hands are tied. The games are only made when the studio making the movie makes a license deal with a game developer, and then they get limited information about the movie, even with NDAs. The developers don't have much time to make the game, and sometimes the studio breathes down the developers' necks to make sure the game is faithful.

That being said, it is perhaps no coincidence that Shadows of Mordor was released between Hobbit movies. The circumstances are different though, as the source material is a book written nearly a century ago, so the team had plenty of time to make the game and refine it to their liking.

Yeah, that pretty much makes sense. Nothing like tying in movie properties.

DKL wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

So the main focus of the game is irrelevant and you have to intentionally restrain yourself to make it relevant?

That's horrid game design.

Pretty much, but most people probably wouldn't be able to really grasp the combat system and critique the game like how I just did.

The game is more of wasted potential than it is a game the plays like crap...

All the necessary systems for a good game are there, but, for whatever reason, Platinum had to restrain themselves (I don't know whose fault this is: Activision? The original creators? Who knows? I'm still kinda surprised that they were even asked to make the game... I'm still kinda surprised anyone gives them money in general)...

But this is probably better than just crapping out a game system without any real thought.

(because a good game in this scenario would necessitate trimming as opposed to refining the actual system further)

That aside, production quality kinda sucks (low enemy variety being the most obvious, though I find it interesting that each variety has some kind of main gimmick that you have to focus play around), but you can only get so much out of $15, I guess.

(the world is invaded by like... the same 3 dudes lol)

OK, now I'm starting to get what you're saying. There's a good concept, but the execution, tied in with horrid production values, ruin the game.

You know, if Korra's creators hadn't done their damndest to isolate any sort of merchandising tie-in save fanmade doujin and season Blu-Ray's (which don't sell because the fans rip the episodes online) they probably could have gotten a retail release that actually looked good.

The execution of the actual gameplay is fine because it plays real smooth... I still find it funny that all they had to do to marginally improve (?) the general experience is to remove some of the items.

(or at least put them behind some kind wall... they don't give you the dumb wicked weave item in Bayonetta right away... aren't health and respawn items more than enough for people to cope?)

As it is, not many people will get a chance to even explore the interesting chi meter system, which is kinda sad, but I'm hoping Platinum ends up reusing the idea in the future.

To be honest, when I really think bout it, the game is probably not going to do a good job of selling the franchise to people...

Which is funny because I'm actually kinda interested now because of the game x_X

Most of the time, tie in games are cheaply made to maximize profit, they don't care about the quality of the game. They are just made for people to buy them because of the name attached. Other times there isn't any oversight or just plain ignorance, because they don't play computer games.

The person or company that is laying out the money for the game, has to actually care about the game and to demand the 'proper amount' of oversight to ensure their vision of the game is realized. They also should be knowledgeable about the type of game they are requesting, or at least have a staff that is. It is the only way they will know if the game company is actually doing a good job or is just going through the motions.

Etrien wrote:

Quote:

If you have any fondness for video games, I'm sure you have a favorite to break out when Halloween rolls around. Go ahead and share it!

As a child of the SNES era, I have a tendency to break out things like Castlevania IV, Super Ghouls n' Ghosts, and Zombies Ate My Neighbors.

Day of the Tentacle!

TarsTarkas wrote:

Most of the time, tie in games are cheaply made to maximize profit, they don't care about the quality of the game. They are just made for people to buy them because of the name attached.

Plus, those who'd play the tie-in game play it for the characters or environment, not gameplay itself. I.e. the Girls und Panzer game is not that good of a tank game, but buyers bought it to see their characters again.

Ryusui wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks they should've stuck with the in-dev title for Freedom Wars, "Panopticon"? I mean, the characters are prisoners...

Me too, Panopticon sounds much cooler. In any case, Freedom Wars looks like a blast, I can't wait to play it.

Nerroth wrote:

Speaking of Freedom Wars, the list of Panopticons available in the North American and European versions of the game is up:

Nothing in northern California huh?, oh well, LA it is.

Stuart Smith wrote:

Rather than accepting another season, Genndy walked.

-Stuart Smith

Just as well considering Jack loves walks.

Those developments are funny because not only has the movie been in development hell but CN teamed up with IDW to put out a comic book which essentially picks up where the show ends.

Hopefully this ties up any loose ends and doesn't wind up like the Gargoyles comic from a few years ago.

I really ought to go pick up those comic books. Still, Samurai Jack is that sort of series that is at its best as a moving medium. It feels like it'd adapt poorly to a comic book, as Samurai Jack is extremely light on dialogue and its big draw is the fast-paced fight choreography. You'd need like 200 panels to depict a fight scene that the show would take 12 seconds for.

Beatdigga wrote:

I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly what Korra's creators were thinking. What we do have is third hand accounts and commentaries.

To wit -

The creators of the show were apparently upset that none of the initial line of Avatar toys had any of the female characters (because it's proven that female characters usually don't sell very well in toylines). That probably contributed to their trolling.

Pretty much everything that the creators of Korra have done since then (the heavy focus on a rather poorly done love triangle they had to jettison in Season 3, as well as a heavy focus on romantic relationships in general, something only Naruto of all things really rivals it in as far as boy marketed material, except Naruto was actually better at keeping it from taking over the plot) is breaking rules in how to market shows to a teen crowd, which is probably why the main people watching the shows are adults that download it.

And you know what? That doesn't make the show's creators noble or champions of artistic freedom. It makes them unsuccessful because their show lacks any sort of way to connect with the primary target demo, especially in merchandise. And all they have to show for is a really bad game and toy companies unwilling to work with them. They showed those heartless executives!

You're not supposed to be all about the money. But it kind of helps if you target your key demo as opposed to breaking all the rules for the sake of breaking them.

I thought that Korra would be able to ride off the success of Avatar--while female characters sell poorly for shows aimed at boys, from what I've seen, boys are perfectly willing to watch a TV show with a female protagonist. (Sailor Moon is the single greatest example of that.) They just don't want the toys.

Perhaps they were trying to break the rules to buck a few trends and to provide an example that it's possible to have a show marketed to boys with extensive romance in it. However, that would only work if the show is successful.

What is the most puzzling is that it's clear the Avatar guys are huge anime fans, but anime, far more so than American television relies on merchandise to sustain themselves, so most anime is in fact just a way to convince viewers to go buy the merchandise.

DKL wrote:

Which is probably intentional since a lot of people probably couldn't handle the game on its regular difficulty setting without some kind of assistance (there's like some actual walls here and they have a bunch of busted items that essentially mows down all obstacles... on the bright side, having chi maxed out all the time looks really really cool).

You know, I hadn't thought about that before. The Korra game, by its very nature, would have to be something that beginners can play and play well. That's another thing with licensed titles: You're going to bring in people who don't play video games or don't play them often, and they're looking for totally different things from experienced gamers. The stuff that experienced gamers might like (character balance, deep battling system, long game length, combo system) would mean nothing to a beginner, whereas things that appeal to beginners might be considered negative points to experienced gamers (button-mashing, hold up/right to win, automatically executed mechanics, quick time events).

TarsTarkas wrote:

Most of the time, tie in games are cheaply made to maximize profit, they don't care about the quality of the game. They are just made for people to buy them because of the name attached. Other times there isn't any oversight or just plain ignorance, because they don't play computer games.

The person or company that is laying out the money for the game, has to actually care about the game and to demand the 'proper amount' of oversight to ensure their vision of the game is realized. They also should be knowledgeable about the type of game they are requesting, or at least have a staff that is. It is the only way they will know if the game company is actually doing a good job or is just going through the motions.

From what I can see, as far as licensed games based on children's franchises go, it's the parents who are buying them. Their rationale is, "My son/daughter likes watching/reading X. Here is a game based on X. He/she will love it too!" And even if the kids don't like it, they tend not to tell their parents because, well, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. So it continues.

All that matters are that the recognizable characters are on the box art and the game doesn't crash the console so hard it destroys it.

Most of the TV and movie companies (and book publishers, to a smaller extent) are run by old people who have no knowledge of video games. Even small, independent studios tend to treat video games as a rival business whose very existence is a thorn in their side. Even with the people lower on the ladder, the fact that they're working at a company that makes TV shows, movies, or books indicates they prefer that medium over video games, and the fact that video games (mobile included) are making so much money makes them highly envious. (This is based on what I've seen working in Hollywood.) If there is a video game deal, it is grudging at best. I'd bet the Korra game deal was like that too.

(On a tangentially related note, of all the major districts of Los Angeles, Hollywood was the absolute last one where I got a 3DS StreetPass, despite spending so much time there.)

leafy sea dragon wrote:

I thought that Korra would be able to ride off the success of Avatar--while female characters sell poorly for shows aimed at boys, from what I've seen, boys are perfectly willing to watch a TV show with a female protagonist. (Sailor Moon is the single greatest example of that.) They just don't want the toys.

Yeah but how many guys liked Sailor Moon because it was about hot underage girls in short skirts showing lots of leg? I liked how Sailor Moon had a plot and continuity and everything, but I was like 12 at the time and going through puberty as well. The fanservice was a nice bonus. Korra doesn't go around in a skirt or have fanservice really so it'd have to rely on it's writing. And.. ehug... I'll agree with Beatdigga the love triangle was way too much, and Korra herself was really unlikable for me.

Got to say about the whole marketing thingie, did the creators of Korra say anything about marketing to Japan? I've noticed more and more companies indirectly or directly marketing stuff in Japan these days. Perhaps they all want part of the merchandising audience since Japan is quite known for being a huge marketing giant. Marvel has it with Disk Wars Avengers, Hasbro tried to market MLP in Japan. Mattel is currently marketing Monster High in Japan with an anime-tie in which is pretty kawaii

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSrJaosTL2s

I'd totally buy some PVCs of the Monster High girls in that style.

I guess Nick doesn't seem to care about Japan though. The original Avatar series was canceled and the Japanese Nickelodeon channel shut down so I guess Nick doesn't care about the Japanese market. Well I guess they don't care about Korra in general these days with how they treat it so I cant be too surprised.

Lavnovice9 wrote:

leafy sea dragon wrote:

I thought that Korra would be able to ride off the success of Avatar--while female characters sell poorly for shows aimed at boys, from what I've seen, boys are perfectly willing to watch a TV show with a female protagonist. (Sailor Moon is the single greatest example of that.) They just don't want the toys.

Yeah but how many guys liked Sailor Moon because it was about hot underage girls in short skirts showing lots of leg? I liked how Sailor Moon had a plot and continuity and everything, but I was like 12 at the time and going through puberty as well. The fanservice was a nice bonus. Korra doesn't go around in a skirt or have fanservice really so it'd have to rely on it's writing. And.. ehug... I'll agree with Beatdigga the love triangle was way too much, and Korra herself was really unlikable for me.

Got to say about the whole marketing thingie, did the creators of Korra say anything about marketing to Japan? I've noticed more and more companies indirectly or directly marketing stuff in Japan these days. Perhaps they all want part of the merchandising audience since Japan is quite known for being a huge marketing giant. Marvel has it with Disk Wars Avengers, Hasbro tried to market MLP in Japan. Mattel is currently marketing Monster High in Japan with an anime-tie in which is pretty kawaii

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSrJaosTL2s

I'd totally buy some PVCs of the Monster High girls in that style.

I guess Nick doesn't seem to care about Japan though. The original Avatar series was canceled and the Japanese Nickelodeon channel shut down so I guess Nick doesn't care about the Japanese market. Well I guess they don't care about Korra in general these days with how they treat it so I can't be too surprised.

I wasn't going to bring this up, but I think you forced me to; Korra's not really a great character. What she seems to be is this sort of forced stereotype buster. "This is minority female protagonist who isn't sexualized!" She's also not very likable, being brash, argumentative, and not really learning anything from her experiences. Just because you can break all the rules of how to market a lead character doesn't mean you should. I mean hell, even Sailor Moon had dolls and toys and other assorted junk in the US during its original run, to say nothing of all the stuff the remake is getting. I really don't want to compare Sailor Moon to Korra, but that Another Story RPG was supposedly pretty good.

Yeah, there's a reason why certain elements are so very pervasive in fiction: Because they help a story.

I have never seen Korra, but if a protagonist is brash and argumentative, it can work if 1) it's an environment where being brash and argumentative is good (that is, the voice willing to stand up against an oppressive leader, or where people like the protagonist are submissive and frequently abused), or 2) the character goes through enough development to become more likable by the end. I take it Korra, as a story, has not done either.

Even then, first impressions will significantly shape a character. This is why Cars (the first Pixar movie) was so divisive: Lightning McQueen was pretty unlikable at the beginning of the movie. Though he became nicer, that he was quite a jerk at first didn't sit well with a lot of people. (Cars, I noticed, is a movie that gets better with repeat viewings, at least with me. I didn't like it too much at first, but I liked it more with knowledge that Lightning is not a jerk because he wants to be, but because it's what he thinks he should be like based on his co-workers' behavior.)

Considering Nickelodeon's history with Angry Beavers and Invader Zim getting canceled abruptly and drawing out Rugrats, The FairlyOddParents, and SpongeBob Squarepants for as long as possible, Nickelodeon's style seems to be to play favorites and to axe shows that are getting too large of a periphery demographic. Thus, I feel like the top dogs at Nickelodeon have a specific agenda, and they have little interest in international appeal.

The punny names of the Monster High characters are totally lost when they katakana'ed them all. I do like these designs over the normal ones though. (Clawdia got quite the fanservice pack.) What's with the weird paper-marionette animation?

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