Forum - View topicWord Filter Suggestion
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Background information: the discussion thread for the TuxTeam cosplay of characters from My Love Story.
I do think it is weird and confusing that the word "trap" - which people have been using on this site for many years without complaint - is now banned, seemingly overnight. And yes, I understand why it is wrong to use it - Hope Chapman made a detailed post on page two explaining that - but the change in policy was very sudden and took a lot of people by surprise. May I make a suggestion? If ANN has indeed officially decided to make "trap" a No-No Word, then how about adding it to the word filter? It might make people more aware that the word is not tolerated anymore. After all, most users on this site will not have read that particular discussion thread. It would be unfair on those people for there to be a new and very stringent policy implemented without some sort of warning. Or maybe there should be an official list somewhere (in a stickied thread, perhaps?) of all the banned words and phrases. That way people can avoid stepping on any toes and also stay out of trouble. Plus it would mean that no-one can use the excuse of "I didn't know" when it came to what words not to say. What do people think? Does either suggestion sound reasonable to you? |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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I don't think that's possible for this particular case, simply because the word "trap" has other uses, far more common than the slur, and we'd end up with posts that looked like this:
or
or
I don't think the filter can work by context, so I don't think implementing that would be very helpful |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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You're absolutely right. It is impossible to contextualize the filter, so that idea is a no-go. I should have realised it straight away.
Perhaps my other suggestion of a stickied list of banned words is still possible? |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I had not read that thread because I am not interested in cosplay, but I am glad that I have read it now. I really did not know that "trap" was used as a derogatory term. I thought that it was just a short, convenient way to refer to a type of anime character. I am sure that I have never used it as an insult. Now that I am aware of the situation I will try to remember never to use it at all in that context.
That seems like a good idea to me. Some words can be filtered because they are always offensive but, as has been pointed out here, many potentially offensive words cannot be filtered because they are common words that are usually not offensive. A list could explain the context in which the use of the word is not acceptable. The list could be prominently displayed in the Announcements & Teh Rules forum. If a moderator does need to edit a post then a link to that thread could be used instead of a detailed explanation. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I know this may sound like a contradiction, given we're tightening the reigns on certain words or phrases as of late that are becoming more insulting ti groups of people, but I think a stickied list would be too authoritative. I mean I know some people already feel we're being unduly harsh or tight in some instances with words we've recently added to the filter. Suddenly having a list at the top of the screen to me would be even worse. We don't want to be too harsh or make the place seem too stuffy.
I don't personally see it as a bad thing per se. I see how it could be beneficial for those words or phrases that may not be common sense. Or whose meanings can/have changed over time to become more derogatory. Such as using the word trap in the manner it has been. My point and concern is that the public perception could be quite unfavorable if we did it. Obviously if the admin feel differently and consider the idea then that's how it goes. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Frankly, I feel that such discussion over words when it comes around, while insulting and hurtful to some people, does also generate a positive outcome by making others more aware of the issue. And because it generates more awareness, hopefully it makes people more thoughtful on the matter.
It's the mods job to make certain the discussion is still reasonable and not just people being insensitive and rude, degenerating the conversation. I can understand where having such conversations constantly would wear people down though, and after a certain point it would become soapboxing. At least for the discussion over the word "trap," it hasn't occurred often. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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@Psycho 101:
ANN is already pretty strict as it is, and it's becoming more so, especially with language or ideas that admin don't like. As you know, recently a certain three-word phrase and its associated acronym were added to the word filter, and I expect more words and phrases to be added with time. But hey, its ANN's site and so it's ANN's rules. I can live perfectly fine with not being able to call men who convincingly look like women "traps", so long as I am aware that I cannot label them as such. However, they key is actually knowing what is not allowed. My issue is that if words and ideas are going to be summarily banned, either outright or in specific contexts, how are people supposed to know what not to say? If the word filter isn't suitable then there needs to be another way. Think about it like this: what happens if someone who has not read that TuxTeam thread uses the label "trap" on the forums and then gets in trouble with the mods? They would be likely be confused, and - depending on how severe the admonishment was - could be justified in feeling aggrieved. They may have used it for years without any problems and then they land in hot water. As a regular user I prefer a publicly-available list of community standards. I certainly don't see it as harsh, just as I have no problem with having "Teh Rules". A list is a fairer and easier method for educating people than having no list and users being chided by mods without warning. Now that's a harsh system. And if mods have to edit a post to remove offending content they can add a link to the list to further aid education (similar to what happens with excessive nested quotes). Anyway, it's just a suggestion that I thought would help both ANN in educating users in the site's standards, and users in not inadvertently offending someone and staying out of trouble. I've made my case the best I can, and I won't press it anymore. I leave it to admin to decide if there's enough merit in it to go ahead with it. |
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Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Personally, I am in favor of the list, but
I think that I understand your concern and it does seem reasonable to me. Under the circumstances I doubt that anything else that I have to say would be constructive. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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On this one we just have to moderate, a word filter won't work.
It isn't that big a deal to say "this is offensive when it's used in this context, stop doing it". |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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Just as an FYI that 3 letter acronym was added because of the context it was constantly being used. At least the context here. It was used primarily, not entirely but certainly often enough, in a pompous self righteous way and almost never added anything of value to conversations. I do concede ANN is stricter, something personally I think most long standing members here are grateful for. The forum is not the wild west of anime forums like others I shall not name. We all know who they are. As for more words or phrases being added.....honestly that's mostly on society and on the members here, and not the staff. If a word or phrase changes over time to mean something rude or derogatory of course it will be added. If users take a word and turn it frm something innocent into something hateful or rude or insulting of course it will be added. If users don't do that, and the meanings of words don;t change in society than they won't get added. And as another FYI it was just the admin who felt the word "trap" was becoming a way to post veiled attacks or rude insults. Used in that specific context of course. Like Zac said though, it won't be added to the filter and simply moderated. The word does have many more innocuous uses and if we filter the word that would just not work realistically. I do understand your concern about wanting to know what words or phrases are filtered or not allowed. It's a valid point that users new or old could not be familiar with the term in that context, or know that's frowned upon now used in that context. The same can be said for other filtered or disavowed words. It is a fair request wanting to be up to date with that. I again simply feel a stickied list would be a bit too much in terms of the strictness here. Like being seen as stern but fair as opposed to simply asinine and anal retentive. What if instead there was a simple announcement, in said area, that mentioned and new words or phrases that frowned upon? You, and others, might feel that's the same thing but I think being a simple normal announcement thread, as opposed to a stickied thread always at the top right in your face, would be less abrasive. Thoughts? I would also mention that the mods, and admin, do our very best to not warn users too harshly for first offenses on a matter such as this if they did not know any better. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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By "a simple announcement, in said area", are you referring to the Announcements & Teh Rules section of the forums? If you are then yeah, I could live with that. I mean, that's where the site's rules are, so it makes sense to locate edicts there as well. As long as the information is on the forums in an easy-to-remember place then I'm happy. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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Yes, that's the area I was referring to. Obviously such an announcement, and the agreement to even make one and go along with this idea, would be at the behest of the admin. Most blocked words are pretty self explanatory in terms of insults, being offensive, rude etc. There are some though that do change or have evolved over time and are perhaps less likely to be seen as being offensive in some capacity. It would make sense to have those available somewhere to avoid confusion and mishaps. I'll ask the other mods and staff for their opinions.
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6524 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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This is much more fun.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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Have to admit, that one was a bit funny.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I don't know who's been screwing with the word filter, but I wasn't consulted. I'm going to clean it up. We most definitely can not censor words like "trap" which have other, non offensive uses (For that reason I've also removed "fag," but if I catch anyone using the term "fag" offensively, I'll ban them myself for a week minimum). -t EDIT: On further reflection and review, those particular word filters are fine. They stay for now. |
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