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Cream Lemon needs re-organising




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Area88



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:06 am Reply with quote
Cream Lemon needs re-organising since it's current layout is a mess.

It should resemble something similiar to wikipedia because at the moment each episode is geting it's own entry which seems like a first for ANN.

Anyway quoting wikipedia, Cream Lemon should have 16 for number of episodes with the following episode titles:

1. "Be My Baby" (August 10, 1984) (Ami series #1)
2. "Escalation" (September 10, 1984)
3. "Superdimension SF Legend Rall" (December 3, 1984)
4. "Pop Chaser" (March 13, 1985)
5. "Ami Again" (April 10, 1985) (Ami series #2)
6. "Escalation 2: Forbidden Sonata" (May 25, 1985)
7. "Don't Do It Mako! Mako Sexy Symphony Part I" (July 12, 1985)
8. "Super Virgin" (September 10, 1985)
9. "Happening Summer" (October 20, 1985)
10. "Star Trap" (December 25, 1985)
11. "Black Cat Manor" (January 25, 1986)
12. "Don't Do It Mako! Mako Sexy Symphony Part II" (February 25, 1986)
13. "Ami III: Now I Embrace You Ami" (May 25, 1986) (Ami series #3)
14. "Nalice Scramble" (August 5, 1986)
15. "Superdimension SF Legend Rall 2: Lamu Ru Strikes Back" (December 5, 1986)
16. "Escalation 3: Angels' Epilogue" (February 21, 1987)
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Yeah...I spend an entire afternoon looking into its entries in Wiki English, Wiki Japan, official website, and several fan sites. Anime dazed Will take some time to sort them out.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:20 am Reply with quote
See (if you have not already) the "Ask John" column on the subject, as well as the original version (which is organized into series, though it contains some inaccuracies). Oh, and the archive of (NSFW; Shift_JIS) Green Bunny's site (they distribut[ed] thirty-six episodes, which I think include the original series, New Cream Lemon, and the specials).

IMHO, Cream Lemon is best organized in the Encyclopedia as an omnibus, since the episodes often have little to do with each other, other than the overarching title and the production company. The series ("Rall", "Mako", "Escalation", etc.) should (again, IMHO) be single entries, but to put Pop Chaser in the same entry as, say, Escalation: Tonight It's Hard Core is a little silly (I own and have watched both)—the two have no characters or themes in common (well, other than lesbianism and being pornography).
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Area88



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:20 am Reply with quote
It still seems better to have all the episodes mirror the 'Ask John' article you linked too. Otherwise it's confusing for newbies and expirienced fans alike since it's alot of clutter to comprehend.

Some of the ova episodes may be completly different to each other in terms of characters and plot but they still fit under the Cream Lemon label. Robot Carnival consists completly of self contained stories yet we don't see seperate entries for them. Just like Robot Carnival, Cream Lemon has central themes that link up all the episodes.

For instance Cream Lemon is well known for having excellent series of parodies such as Pop Chaser, Star Trap (parody of Dirty Pair), Nalice Scramble and even Project A-ko until it went mainstream. You can't possibly tell me these aren't related?

Plus most of the episodes have multi-parts like Ami, SF Legend Rall, Escalation, Mako Sexy Symphony, do we really want to seperate these into fragmented entries?

I guess i'm just raising the question of consistancy and the fact thats there over 70 episodes of Cream Lemon in total.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:51 am Reply with quote
Area88 wrote:
It still seems better to have all the episodes mirror the 'Ask John' article you linked too. Otherwise it's confusing for newbies and expirienced fans alike since it's alot of clutter to comprehend.

I don't understand what you mean—would you kindly elaborate?

Area88 wrote:
Some of the ova episodes may be completly different to each other in terms of characters and plot but they still fit under the Cream Lemon label. Robot Carnival consists completly of self contained stories yet we don't see seperate entries for them. Just like Robot Carnival, Cream Lemon has central themes that link up all the episodes.

IMO Robot Carnival is a poor example—it's a single film (made of several parts, it's true), not dozens of OAVs spread across three decades. As such, it is more-or-less a unitary work—which Cream Lemon is not. Besides, having a theme or themes is not enough to lump something together in a single entry (as opposed to an omnibus entry), which is the impression that I take from your arguments (though obviously I could easily be wrong).

Area88 wrote:
For instance Cream Lemon is well known for having excellent series of parodies such as Pop Chaser, Star Trap (parody of Dirty Pair), Nalice Scramble and even Project A-ko until it went mainstream. You can't possibly tell me these aren't related?

Only by parody and that they are pornography (except, of course, for Project A-ko). Without knowing what you intend, I can't really comment, but my initial impression is that it would be like lumping together Hardcore Hospital and Sex Ward simply because they are two hentai shows about hospitals, made under the Vanilla Series brand by Digital Works. (Calling their anime a "series" was a clever bit of marketing on their part, IMHO.) And what about the non-parody episodes: the Escalation arc, Dark (or so I understand), and the Black Cat Manor arc?

Area88 wrote:
Plus most of the episodes have multi-parts like Ami, SF Legend Rall, Escalation, Mako Sexy Symphony, do we really want to seperate these into fragmented entries?

It would hardly be worse than Gundam (well organized though that may be). In any case, I only propose to separate the story arcs from each other, not each individual episode (something upon which I think we agreed).

Area88 wrote:
I guess i'm just raising the question of consistancy and the fact thats there over 70 episodes of Cream Lemon in total.

That's a little misleading, in that your episode count is low, and that Lemon Angel counts for 60 episodes (in four series—three television and one two-episode OAV) by itself (pages 362-363 of The Anime Encyclopedia, Rev. & Expanded Ed. (AKA "TAE 2nd")); the remainder consists of 56 episodes (the new version of the "Ask John" column lists 52 (not including the two Midnight Anime Lemon Angel Specials and Lemon Angel television series), plus the four episodes of Cream Lemon New Generation), including the compilation videos (Ami Young Graffitti and the Cream Lemon Climax series, plus possibly Cream Lemon 3 Year Anniversary Special Graduation Album (I don't know of what it consists)—eight or nine entries in the "Ask John" list).

BTW, another source (though I'm not certain it will be helpful) is The Anime LD Cyclopedia.

Oh, other than the obvious series, Tou Moriyama Special 2 - Afterschool XXX is a sequel to Tou Moriyama Guest Special - Five Hour Venus (see TAE 2nd, p. 116, column 2).
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2930
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:53 pm Reply with quote
Bumping because I've been working on this. Here's what I've found based on Wikipedia and why I didn't separate each arc into it's own entry (which would have been a nightmare)

The series was released, by and large, chronologically: animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=17074&page=28

The arcs were sometimes bundled together for three special VHS releases. The Climax Complete Works, the JR releases, and several releases seen here: animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=3553&page=28 are merely recuts (either to remove censored material or add it back).

I haven't added Climax Complete Works or JR releases because I can't find definitive information yet as to what episodes they contain.

In the few cases of omnibus' spanning across several works (like Tou Moriyama), it seems more beneficial to just add that release with a note to each relevant work page. Same can be said for say the Ami original OAVs relationship to the Creamy Lemon OAVs, and on the Black Cat Manor Zoku OAV.

This seems a lot simpler than having the omnibus grow that large or making separate arc entries when the releases weren't really marketed that way to begin with.

If anyone has seen all of the related Ami material and can tell me how it goes in relationship to one another, that would be helpful.

There's the Ami episodes in Cream Lemon (Kobi Imōto Baby, Ami Again, Ami III) Ami Image: Shiroi Kage (OAV), Ami Shusho (movie), Ami: Sore kara (OAV), Ami Omnibus [need to know what this contains, Japanese title is 亜美・青春グラフティ くりいむレモン亜美総集編] , Shinseki Cream Lemon episode "Ami RENCONTRER," and the Cream Lemon: New Generation Ami episodes.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:08 pm Reply with quote
FWIW, here's my own list of Cream Lemon episode titles.

You may find chapter 5, "A Twist of Cream Lemon: Forbidden Fruit for the Mass Market" (pp. 42–51), of following book to be useful:

  • McCarthy, Helen, and Jonathan Clements. The Erotic Anime Movie Guide. London: Titan Books, 1998; Woodstock, N.Y.: Overlook Press, 1999. ISBN 1852869461; 0879517050. OCLC 44832651.

Alternately, see the Cream Lemon entry in The Anime Encyclopedia, 3rd Revised Edition.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2930
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Thanks, I'll look into this!
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