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Why are mature male VAs being cast for prepubescent males in ENG versions of anime?


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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2633
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:42 am Reply with quote
^ because people use seiyuu and VA or voice actor to distinguish between the actors origins and they don't always have to type out Japanese or English every time.

It's not gratuitous at all to borrow a Japanese word on occasion if it works and makes things easier. It's no different than using anime instead of Japanese animation. It's ultimately just a type of fandom jargon.

And the reason why people don't use the Japanese word for director because when you say director you are typically referring to one thing. Okay there is the English ADR director but that is pretty different from the director of the series. You don't typically need to distinguish which director you are referring to as you may with a Seiyuu vs a VA.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
My question is, why use "seiyuu" at all, even for Japanese casting, when "voice actor"/VA works just as well? It comes across as Gratuitous Japanese, and it's not like anybody says "Oh, the kantoku made an odd choice there" when talking about directors.

I don't see how I was "gratuitous" in using a Japanese equivalent of an English term...If one were to go by this sort of logic, the use of the terms "anime" and "manga" in place of "animation" and "comic" would be gratuitous.

Anyhow, I think we're straying a bit too far from the track keeping this going any farther, so this is my last word on this matter. If you have any thoughts about my viewpoint of mature male English VAs being cast for prepubescent males, I would love to hear them. Smile
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Night fox



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
I don't see how I was "gratuitous" in using a Japanese equivalent of an English term...If one were to go by this sort of logic, the use of the terms "anime" and "manga" in place of "animation" and "comic" would be gratuitous.

I suppose using "seiyuu" instead of "voice actor", when discussing English dubs, is a bit like using "anime" when referring to American cartoons (which would be rather confusing). Wink
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
IMO, this is precisely why female voice actors are inappropriate. Female voices are great for young characters, but once they get into the age range where puberty can hit at any time, a female voice starts sounding too feminine. It either makes the character sound younger than they are, or "too girly."


Some female VA's can pull it off extremely well though. Ranma (male version) had a woman for his first Engilsh VA, and she sounded amazing. It wasn't until years later I found out that it wasn't a guy voicing him. I really wish English VA's would follow Japan's practice of hiring women for more feminine male characters or younger boys. Himura Kenshin, Shinji Ikari, and Naruto are all fantastic examples. In English they cast these VA's to sound way, way too manly and deep by comparison.

Even if the character has a male Japanese VA, sometimes the English VA's voice doesn't fit the character. It's just offputting to me to see really androgynous male characters with these deep gravely voices trying to be all badass. Cloud from FFVII is a good example. He's a very weak/sensitive character, and the Japanese VA played him really well. The English VA.. *shudder* just went way too deep to try to make him sound like this batman like mysterious cool guy. Didn't work for me.

We do have some male English VA's though with more range (Vic Mignogna, Johnny Yong Bosch for example).
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:22 pm Reply with quote
I don't see any problem with the practice. While I don't watch a lot of dubbed anime, I do watch some. I have never experienced a problem listening to young male characters. I find the idea of questioning every decision on voice actor casting to be a bit silly. Unless a voice is so distracting or inappropriate as to take me out of the show, I'm fine with it.

I have listened to some bad dubs, usually from older shows. Where I have a problem is with women trying to go higher and squeaker than their natural range to the point it sounds fake.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:49 pm Reply with quote
Lili-Hime wrote:
Even if the character has a male Japanese VA, sometimes the English VA's voice doesn't fit the character. It's just offputting to me to see really androgynous male characters with these deep gravely voices trying to be all badass. Cloud from FFVII is a good example. He's a very weak/sensitive character, and the Japanese VA played him really well. The English VA.. *shudder* just went way too deep to try to make him sound like this batman like mysterious cool guy. Didn't work for me.

We do have some male English VA's though with more range (Vic Mignogna, Johnny Yong Bosch for example).

Oh yes, hearing gruff, deep-sounding voices from androgynous male characters can sound off-putting, I'm in agreement there. Male VAs with effeminate voices (Josh Grelle and Nicholas Roye, for instance) or middle-range/deep-sounding female VAs would be at their most effective with them. It's a huge bonus if an androgynous female VA were to voice a androgynous male. Smile

Alan45 wrote:
I don't see any problem with the practice. While I don't watch a lot of dubbed anime, I do watch some. I have never experienced a problem listening to young male characters. I find the idea of questioning every decision on voice actor casting to be a bit silly. Unless a voice is so distracting or inappropriate as to take me out of the show, I'm fine with it.

Hey, I've got no problem with you being fine with it; if anything, I'm used to this practice myself. However, that doesn't mean that I can't respectfully bring it into question, does it? Confused
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:16 am Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
Quote:
that doesn't mean that I can't respectfully bring it into question, does it?


Certainly you can bring it into question. However, you did ask for opinions, that is mine. Every time a dub cast is announced, we get a lot of opinions posted both pro and con. Some of the people who don't like a given cast decision can get very vehement. That is fine, but I feel they are wasting a lot of emotion on something they can't change. I apparently do not take dubs as seriously as some others do.
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Night fox



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:08 am Reply with quote
You might as well ask why there are bad casting choices in English anime dubs at all. Assuming that the choices are dependant on the competence of those in charge of the casting, the studio's budget and the availability/interest of the VAs, then chances are that a few dubs will be flawed in some ways.

Like someone already mentioned, sometimes characters are even given deep voices as a joke, e.g. Toshiro and Rukia from Bleach.

Now, I'm gonna assume that you've seen at least at least 200 different anime titles, meaning that the six examples you mentioned in your OP constitute less than 3% of all seen titles. That's hardly a figure to be concerned about. If 97% of all anime I watch were good, I'd be thrilled! Laughing
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:11 am Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:

Oh yes, hearing gruff, deep-sounding voices from androgynous male characters can sound off-putting, I'm in agreement there. Male VAs with effeminate voices (Josh Grelle and Nicholas Roye, for instance) or middle-range/deep-sounding female VAs would be at their most effective with them. It's a huge bonus if an androgynous female VA were to voice a androgynous male. Smile


Wait, I know this one: Wendy Powell as Envy in Fullmetal Alchemist. Still, I liked her better in Moonphase where she played an androgynous female. Wait, what does that last sentence mean? Masculine sounding female voice actors maybe? Or are you asking for something else?

For the most part, I'm in complete disagreement with you. What works, works and for me, that means acting more then either trying to get the voice to match the Japanese one- honestly, that's pointless since it's not in Japanese and English voices are lower anyways- or the performance to match the Japanese one- the languages have opposite sentence structure and I'm always amazed this process works at all let alone the 50 years it's been in use. Not just anime, I also count kaiju films from the 60s.

Is the process perfect? Do the Japanese care about their audio in the first place? No and no. It's the second no that makes all this talk meaningless. Can a deep voice come out of a feminine yet male face? Yes, there's this show called Paradise Kiss which is all over that. And for the opposite, I'll just say one name: Goku. Does it make sense? No but it does happen... even if it shouldn't.

However, bringing it all back to the main question, usually women are cast as young boys in both languages unless there's a reason for it. The issue with Negima was the accent and the fact he's cast against over 30 girls so you'd want to separate them as much as possible. In Japanese, you'd want a woman because of the songs and other crossmarketing options.

Then there's vocal range as some adept VAs are able to go both high and low believably- Greg Ayres and Josh Grelle are able toplay their own younger versions without having to recast or rethink the character.

And one who can't quite do it but tries anyway is Jerry Jewell. He's a fine actor but he really shouldn't play any guys younger then 13.

And then there's Black*Star from Soul Eater. Really should have been cast as a guy in both languages- what a shocker- but Brittney Karbowski did a better job than Yumiko Kobayashi because while both could do the lower register for normal speaking and yelling, Kobayashi's laughter was at her normal register.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:
Wait, what does that last sentence mean? Masculine sounding female voice actors maybe? Or are you asking for something else?

Yes, that's what I was referring to there, but hey, it's only a bonus. Wink

Quote:
For the most part, I'm in complete disagreement with you. What works, works and for me, that means acting more then either trying to get the voice to match the Japanese one- honestly, that's pointless since it's not in Japanese and English voices are lower anyways- or the performance to match the Japanese one- the languages have opposite sentence structure...

Well, then, perhaps much to your surprise, I'm actually in agreement with all of this. No way am I suggesting that English voices should be an exact imitation of the Japanese.

Quote:
Is the process perfect? Do the Japanese care about their audio in the first place? No and no. It's the second no that makes all this talk meaningless. Can a deep voice come out of a feminine yet male face? Yes, there's this show called Paradise Kiss which is all over that.

Yes, I'm fully aware that feminine males can have deep-sounding voices. Does this mean that deep-sounding male voice actors should be cast for every male character, including those with a feminine appearance? Of course not.

As for this topic being "meaningless?" To you, it is; to myself, I find it to be beneficial as I want to hear how others are faring with the process.

...and yes, I'm aware that there's no way to make a "perfect" cast, and I know that there's no way to please everyone. But there can be room for improvement.

Quote:
And for the opposite, I'll just say one name: Goku. Does it make sense? No but it does happen... even if it shouldn't.

Ah, yes...Perhaps the Japanese viewers of Dragon Ball were so thrilled of Masako Nozawa's performance as Goku, the studio virtually had no other option but to keep her or face possible blacklash. An obvious miscast in the case of adult Goku, but it is what it is. Neutral

Quote:
However, bringing it all back to the main question, usually women are cast as young boys in both languages unless there's a reason for it. The issue with Negima was the accent and the fact he's cast against over 30 girls so you'd want to separate them as much as possible.

...and that is understandable. I personally thought Greg Ayres did fairly well as Negi. Unfortunately, his rasp made some others beg to differ.

Quote:
And then there's Black*Star from Soul Eater. Really should have been cast as a guy in both languages- what a shocker- but Brittney Karbowski did a better job than Yumiko Kobayashi because while both could do the lower register for normal speaking and yelling, Kobayashi's laughter was at her normal register.

I enjoyed Brittany's performance as Black Star. I wouldn't mind at all if she was cast as another young male character sometime in the future.
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