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Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World- (TV) (all seasons).


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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13224
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:30 am Reply with quote
The last one. Everything else is the same impulsive behavior he's shown during the entire series.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:40 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
The last one. Everything else is the same impulsive behavior he's shown during the entire series.
going to disagree wth this somewhat. The scene with the Knights was Subaru at a new low, and he managed to reach an even lower point 10 minutes later.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:38 pm Reply with quote
I am of the mind that Subaru as a character is supposed to be taken as the "standard male LN protagonist", usually they are MUCH more bland than Subaru for the purpose that the reader can self insert into the story.

The point of the scene then is to be a kind of reader punch, where the reader had experienced all the lively events and was surrounded by cute girls, and then suddenly the lead girl now effectively proclaim (in much better written words) "I am my own character, and I am NOT your Waifu!"

The experience of course is different when experienced as an anime based media as Subaru is clearly an established character, however, as a character he STILL falls into many of the usual LN story telling tropes of a standard male lead, one of them often being an expectation that "the lead guy should get with the lead girl".
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:33 pm Reply with quote
I don't know why people say that Subaru is meant to be some sort of LN/VN self-insert character. I don't know about anyone else, but *I* sure as heck wouldn't want to have to suffer through the painful deaths he's had to endure. With the sole exception of the time he died in his sleep, they've been nasty, and often horribly drawn out. He's basically almost a basket case internally, so why would anyone want to experience that? To hang out with cute girls that (at least at first) don't trust him or outright slaughter him? He may have *appeared* to be a self-insert/wish-fulfillment character at first, but it doesn't take very long to realize that's not what he is... at all. Not in my opinion, anyway.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13224
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:14 pm Reply with quote
In the first place that Subaru is demanding Emillia to be in love with him is an assumption. He doesn't actually say anything to that effect, simply that he thinks he's owed something for his efforts. Considering that the word "friendzone" is a big trigger around here I'm not surprised some people immediately jump to the conclusion that Subaru demands Emillia's body as payment for the debt.

And I know it's taboo to criticise the female in these situations, but let's be honest here: Emillia is being a hypocrite. She wants Subaru to tell her everything, yet she refused to explain why she didn't want him to go to the gathering. Had she just explained that she didn't want him to see the other candidates badmouth her because she knew it'd upset him she might have gotten him to stay behind, or give him the condition that he can come along so long as he keeps his mouth shut.

She comments how the her inside his heart is different from the real her, while at the same time the Subaru in her heart is apparently some one who doesn't give her special treatment. She has her own expectations for their relationship she is likewise projecting onto him.

She accuses Subaru of having selfish intentions, but her desire not to see him harmed because of her, is that just genuine concern alone? Or does she not want whatever happens to him to weigh on her shoulders?

As with all human relations, it's not so black and white. Even if the show is putting Subaru 100% in the wrong.
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Raftina



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 3282
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:18 pm Reply with quote
Bugnin wrote:
At this point, I'm rooting for Subaru to die again. He apparently still hasn't learned his lesson.

Unless his reset point is just after the conversation with Emilia, dying would have the opposite effect--it would allow him to escape the consequences of his selfish actions, as Vaisaga pointed out earlier.

But hey, he could always fall into the waiting arms of his one true waifu if things do not work out with Emilia.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:03 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
I don't know why people say that Subaru is meant to be some sort of LN/VN self-insert character. I don't know about anyone else, but *I* sure as heck wouldn't want to have to suffer through the painful deaths he's had to endure. With the sole exception of the time he died in his sleep, they've been nasty, and often horribly drawn out. He's basically almost a basket case internally, so why would anyone want to experience that? To hang out with cute girls that (at least at first) don't trust him or outright slaughter him? He may have *appeared* to be a self-insert/wish-fulfillment character at first, but it doesn't take very long to realize that's not what he is... at all. Not in my opinion, anyway.

And I think that is exactly the point. Why would you want to be Subaru?

Subaru has many of the trapping of an insert character: He is a normal person from our world and has magically been transported to a cool fantasy world. Even more that he was an otaku and a shut-in, he is written like the starting point for the perfect insert character, an escapist fantasy that viewers could imagine themselves also doing. His power actually on a meta level takes it even further, he essentially reloads after having a bad end, a power a player tends to actually have from a video game. Reloading after a bad choice or especially after being physically overwhelmed is actually something myself and others like me are used to in games such as fantasy worlds, it is pretty much an implicit power expected more than being stronger than enemies.

Subaru got the attention of a beautiful girl, and he is liked, he should be living out the fantasy, but things are not so great. HIs video game like power's mechanics have royally screwed him up, the idea of reloading is removing consequence, but it has actually scarred him. It is an inverse of the fantasy, but more is what was happening here with him thinking that he is owed a certain amount for his actions up till now. It is a common criticism that there is a certain level of disempowerment from the damsel in distress trope, the expectation that in the hero saving the damsel that they owe the hero their affection, turning it into a reward, in turn making themselves a reward and thus an object. It is a key aspect common in video games, light novels, anime, movies, literature and old world mythology. There is a certain amount of romance around the idea, that a man get a beautiful lady and a woman a handsome prince, but is kind of messed up because men are pressured to be strong and women pressured to be beautiful and trusting.

Subaru's outburst was kind of showing it in its ugliness the idea that on a level he feels like he is owed for the hardships that Emilia might not even know about. That she is a waifu he has to protect for all the parts of her character that might not even be relevant to the Emilia right in front of him. It is not all negative against Subaru in saying he is sexist or something, he thinks that he is doing the right thing, and to him Emilia is an important person. We could even see it as somewhat reversed in that Subaru was actually the damsel that was saved in the alley and Emilia is the hero who saved him, it was another reason he is so protective of her. Maybe a little like a hero being set up without the input of a player and now are faced with the affection of someone treating you like a god for something you yourself never did, and is a "relationship" under disconnect. We followed the tropes commonly followed and really it has blown apart in a logical way showing the flaws in the trope, an insert fantasy gone wrong.

Emilia is trying to evenly give the same respect he showed to her in trying to help him in return, but instead he is white knighting himself into situations where he is hurting himself and her, unnecessarily. I am not a big fan of the term in general, I do consider myself a male feminist and not too fond some comments where people think that people like myself are trying to act like white knights as if to earn points or something. Ironically because the white knight concept is against feminist ideals in treating female character like an object. Anyway, it was put in the face that it is putting the relationship in a way that is not equal, even if he internalises it like he is treating her better than himself, it is kind of the same end effect.

There are a number of other ways to take the plot, the feminist take is not the only way or probably the most likely taken way, most people hate the word, and the other ways have just as much merit. That Subaru has broken down from his experiences. That they are both putting too high expectations on each other. That Subaru is be unfairly penalised from the effects of an outside power. That Subaru is not earning Emilia's trust. But regardless, I do believe that Subaru being written much like an insert character in his backstory, and the fact things blew up, do have some thematic significance.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Posts: 756
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
And I know it's taboo to criticise the female in these situations, but let's be honest here: Emillia is being a hypocrite. She wants Subaru to tell her everything, yet she refused to explain why she didn't want him to go to the gathering. Had she just explained that she didn't want him to see the other candidates badmouth her because she knew it'd upset him she might have gotten him to stay behind, or give him the condition that he can come along so long as he keeps his mouth shut.

She comments how the her inside his heart is different from the real her, while at the same time the Subaru in her heart is apparently some one who doesn't give her special treatment. She has her own expectations for their relationship she is likewise projecting onto him.

Not to say you can't flip many of her questions onto her, but I don't see how her explaining it would change anything (same as my feelings apropos to Subaru telling her about his power). If anything, it'd only guarantee he'd do whatever it takes to be there and protect her as she feared.

And I took her comment as admitting she's not some perfect, all-knowing and forgiving person of pure at heart, implying recognition to their expectations only hurting themselves and each other; hence cutting ties and letting them go their separate ways.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:14 pm Reply with quote
I had a rewatch of Subaru and Emilia's first encounter, and every turn she could she was trying to shoo Subaru out of her life, she even goes several times over about how he doesn't owe her a debt.
Emilia only conceded to allowing Subaru tag along as he caught a glimpse of Felt and she had no other leads at the time.
Emilia even initially claimed her name as "Satella" which would have warded off any other denizen of the kingdom, however Subaru's worldly ignorance meant he would still cling to Emilia.

This latest scene in series is not the first time Subaru "doesn't take a hint" even if someone is spelling out to "back off".

Subaru's bullheadedness is certainly a standout characteristic of his, it has both aided and literally gotten him killed.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:25 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
Man, was one scene really all it took to get people to turn on Subaru like this?

From what I've seen everyone has been piling on Subaru since the first episode.

FenixFiesta wrote:
This latest scene in series is not the first time Subaru "doesn't take a hint" even if someone is spelling out to "back off".

Subaru's bullheadedness is certainly a standout characteristic of his, it has both aided and literally gotten him killed.

So...knowing she's going to be killed, he should just go, "Oh, ok. My bad. I'm sorry to have bothered you. Have a nice day! ::mutter::...since that's all you've got left" and walk away to find a job while he figures out how to get home? Remember, before he'd even met her the first time, he'd already seen her die once before he came to this world.

It just seems like most people are judging Subaru according to real world standards, when his situation is anything but. It's not even fairy tale standard.
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Treeborn



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:26 pm Reply with quote
If this is a story about Subaru ultimately becoming a villain, I'm on board with the direction of this episode. Id actually love to see Subaru go crazy and malicious. If he's still supposed to beer the hero, I really hope they redeem his character soon. Every time he opened his mouth this episode, he became more and more annoying.

And I'm kinda feeling like Rem went from badass to doormat :/
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Ep 14
What fate is worst than your own cruel death?
Subaru learns this harsh answer again and again.

Subaru is doubling down on his madness mantra with his obsession of Emilia, his line of thinking is clearly unhealthy and only the audience and those close to him can clearly see it.

Crusch and Felix try to talk reason to Subaru, but of course he would have none of it as he retorts with paranoia while being consumed with insane thoughts all in an effort to return to Emilia.
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A Mystery



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1886
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:28 pm Reply with quote
I´m also on board for this series! Bit late for the party, I know. Subaru sure doesn't become nicer as I announce this (is it because of me?). It's an interesting thing this show does, letting him take the wrong route and failing miserably. I hope his character will redeem a bit, soon. Even though it's quality work, the audience can't bear to watch it Laughing
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Shikiari



Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 462
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Well it's all gone Pete Tong for Subaru. I'm expecting him to find Emilia-tan burnt at the stake inside the mansion next episode.

I wonder if he ends up taking his own life just to rid himself of this nightmare, just to find out that he can't change anything. Now that would be really sadistic.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:10 am Reply with quote
Episode 14

It is an interesting choice that Subaru is being presented wrong in some of how he is dealing with his thoughts on needing to be close to Emilia, but also that Subaru does need to be close to her. Two contradicting elements, perhaps showing how an end result is important, but how one goes about it is also important.

Subaru is seeing a number of the people around him as enemies, and that those who do not understand him, may be against him. One part was how Subaru assumed that Crusch is an enemy simply because he learned that she is helping him because of a contract and says that she will as much if he runs away. Perhaps seeing Crusch wants to be an ally of Emilia, and the contract she has made with Emilia is important to be one. If I remember correctly, Crusch was into independence, and apparently she well respects strong will.

As hard as it was to see the stuff Subaru is going through mentally in trying to think, the ending of the episode took it to another level in the horror he witnessed at the village, and finally the dead Rem. That would be really hard to take. I think that it is safe to assume that the people who attacked were the Witch cultists, and they did seem to recognise something in him. The talk about him resembling a villain continues my theory that he may ironically be sharing many of the traits that the Jealous Witch had and is going down a somewhat similar road.
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