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Sympathetic villains in anime?


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Albert Casanovas



Joined: 10 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:56 am Reply with quote
sometimes characters turn into villains by traumatic circumstances of their lifes and the same happens in anime and manga, even though this does not excuse their actions they're still sympathetic and oftentimes they redeem themselves (specially if they're anti-villains). For this reason I hate to hear and read of how people treat them like garbage, because first, they didn't asked for this to happen, and second, they have a hidden softer side but they're either too angry or nervous to show it. I'm saying that because sometimes I behave like an insensitive jerkass and it makes me feel unhappy and I don't like my situation because I'm a good person in my heart. Wink

[EDIT: Changed your title to better reflect your intentions. -TK]
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Night fox



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:17 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for. Are you saying that fans need to be more forgiving toward anime villains in general, or do you have any specific examples of "misunderstood" murderers or psychopaths?

I generally find that shounen series, such as Naruto, Hunter x Hunter and Bleach, frequenty address the issue of whether some violence can be seen as justified and that any one, under the right (or wrong) circumstances can resort to the most gruesome behaviour to exact revenge (Sasuke Uchiha), or because they've grown up in a violent and ruthless environment (Phantom Troupe), or because they simply are psychopaths (Sosuke Aizen).

I'm guessing that, out of these three categories, the one with a clear motive for his violence (Sasuke) is the easiest for fans to forgive. Smile
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Albert Casanovas



Joined: 10 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:51 am Reply with quote
What I meant to say is sympathetic villains, oh well... Confused nobody's perfect.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Well, usually the sympathetic ones aren't the main villains, but if you want some anime with sympathetic villains who play a major enough role, I have a few. Rue from Princess Tutu, Kirei Kotomine (particularly in Fate/Zero, though the Heaven's Feel path of Fate/Stay Night fleshes him out quite a bit), Funny Valentine and Diego Brando from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Steel Ball Run, Meruem from Hunter x Hunter (the Phantom Troupe are also very interesting, three-dimensional characters who happen to be self-serving villains), Toguro and Sensui from Yu Yu Hakusho (Especially Toguro), Griffith from Berserk, Light Yagami from Death Note, A couple of the killers from Dangan Ronpa (not really villains, but still the antagonists who the protagonist must defeat), depending on who you ask, Shogo Makishima from Psycho Pass, spoiler[Moeka] from Steins;Gate, most of the cast from Black Lagoon, technically most of the enemies from the Bokurano series (I recommend the manga on that one), plenty of characters from Gash Bell (ugh, Zatch Bell if you want the American title) but in particular... Koruru, Patie and Byonko, Zeon, Cherish, Gorm, and Pamoon. For the Gash Bell ones though, most of them become good guys.

In addition, Gash Bell has plenty of interesting cases of Heel-Face turns (the act of a villain switching to a good guy) that rarely feel forced or unearned (like several of the ones I see out of Fairy Tail tend to be). A lot of the time though, these characters die soon after their redemption, so it's not as explored as I'd like. A great example of a villain-turned-hero story is actually spoiler[Koro-sensei] from Assassination Classroom. I'd recommend checking that out.
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Night fox



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:30 pm Reply with quote
^ Concerning Light Yagami, while I do think he's an interesting character, I certainly don't find him very sympathetic. He doesn't really have a good enough excuse for becoming a cold-blooded killer and you need to look hard to find a more self-centered character in anime - well, Sosuke Aizen might be on the same level as Light. Wink

There are some sympathetic antagonists featured in Blast of Tempest, who have a very good reason to oppose the protagonists. The "villains" in this case are really just doing what they believe is best for the world and that means stopping our heroes at all costs.

Deadman Wonderland is another series that start out very "black and white", good vs evil, but where seemingly ruthless enemies gradually are shown in a brighter light and are revealed to posses both hearts and moral code, Remember who the real enemy is.

Ga-Rei-Zero similarly starts out with showing us the classic good vs evil scenario, but quickly proceeds by bringing us back to a time when these mortal enemies first met. We get to follow the characters as they develop a strong friendship and are finally shown what caused the rift between them.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:59 am Reply with quote
^

I'd put Light as slightly less sympathetic than Kirei Kotomine. Yeah, he's a true villain and I don't feel sorry for him, but it's interesting to explore the incredibly realistic and human reason that he became evil.
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Albert Casanovas



Joined: 10 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:01 am Reply with quote
Well, there are many types of sympathetic villains for example: sympathetic murderers like Lucy/Kaede from elfen lied, sympathetic jerkasses like Sasuke Uchiha from naruto, insecure villains like Crona from soul eater and many MANY more, I hope someday they may succed finding redemption for their crimes. Sad
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Albert Casanovas wrote:
Well, there are many types of sympathetic villains for example: sympathetic murderers like Lucy/Kaede from elfen lied, sympathetic jerkasses like Sasuke Uchiha from naruto, insecure villains like Crona from soul eater and many MANY more, I hope someday they may succed finding redemption for their crimes. Sad


Funny you hold out hope for three products that are already completed. I believe Lucy is dead in some capacity by the end of Elfen Lied (Both versions in fact), and Crona sadly becomes more of a villain if I recall correctly from manga fans. Sasuke still has a shot though, with the sequel/spinoff about the next generation.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13224
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:50 pm Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:
Funny you hold out hope for three products that are already completed. I believe Lucy is dead in some capacity by the end of Elfen Lied (Both versions in fact), and Crona sadly becomes more of a villain if I recall correctly from manga fans. Sasuke still has a shot though, with the sequel/spinoff about the next generation.


You should spoiler tag that stuff.

To be accurate, in Elfen Lied (MANGA SPOILERS)spoiler[Lucy dies saving everyone and her and Nyuu are reincarnated as a pair of twins.]

Didn't read the whole thing, but at the end of Soul Eater (MANGA SPOILERS)spoiler[Crona sacrifices him/herself to seal the Kishin away on the moon.]

A standout for me so far as sympathetic antagonists go is Nami Shishidou from The Girl Who Leapt Through Space. She used to be a successful teen model until bullying turn her into a shut in. Luckily she has her sisters to support her through such troubling... HAHA no. Her oldest sister basically just tells her to suck it up and her other sisters are too busy doing whatever to really care. She takes a little bit of solace that her sister Akiha is more unremarkable than her, but then Akiha turns out to be the chosen one and suddenly everything is about her.

All this leads Nami wide open to be seduced by the dark side and she indulges in vengeance against the world. Only to have the bad guys reveal they didn't actually need her for anything and it was still all about Akiha. So when another villain comes along and suggest they just kill everyone she's all for it.

The most tragic villains are the ones whose fall to villainy could have been prevented through simple means. If her family had just given her a damn hug none of that would have happened. Hell, we only see her happy in an alternate universe where she's terminally ill and Akiha almost mercy strangles her.
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 514
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:01 pm Reply with quote
A lot of magical girl anime uses sympathetic villains a lot as well. Most of the villains in Sailor Moon are like this and usually become good when Sailor Moon heals them with the Silver Crystal. Madoka has straight up evil villains like Kyubey but then there's also more morally complex antagonists like Kyoko and Homura. Most CLAMP works also usually feature a lot of morally complex characters too. Then of course you also have sympathetic antagonists in a lot of Ghibli movies, the best example being Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke. Fullmetal Alchemist has them too. Like the Homunculi in the original anime and Scar in both the original and Brotherhood are presented in sympathetic manners.
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Albert Casanovas



Joined: 10 Sep 2016
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:51 am Reply with quote
Well, sometimes redemption equals death. At least they didn't die being evil. Neutral
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
To be accurate, in Elfen Lied (MANGA SPOILERS)spoiler[Lucy dies saving everyone and her and Nyuu are reincarnated as a pair of twins.]

It should be noted that to say the same of Elfen Lied's anime ending would be more speculative than its ambiguity allows. spoiler[It would be out of harmony with the final scenes to hold that neither of Lucy's egos are still present. Indeed, for her to have died would mute or at least distort the theme of redemption that the show attempts, and I hold that a certain degree of charity is due in this respect.]
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:39 pm Reply with quote
As I recall it, Elfen Lied's anime ending is pretty damned ambiguous in regards to Lucy/Nyuu.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:32 am Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
As I recall it, Elfen Lied's anime ending is pretty damned ambiguous in regards to Lucy/Nyuu.


I agree that it's up to interpretation, but I think they were trying to nudge us in the more optimistic direction. It's like how we all assume spoiler[Spike is dead at the end of Cowboy Bebop] when Watanabe said "I thought he was just sleeping." It's a finished product left on an ambiguous note for us to ponder about forever and ever.
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A Mystery



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1886
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:02 am Reply with quote
The first time I ever cried because of an anime (I must have been only 11 years old), was because of Vegeta's speech to Goku on Namek in Dragonball Z.
It was easy to sympathize with him, even though he remained a jerk (and an evil villain) for most of the time.
It wasn't a situation which you often see in stories - where a villain meets the hero of the story and after the hero's action or emotional speech, s/he sheds his/her villain nature and becomes a true friend. Gaara (from Naruto) would be a prime example of this.

Light from Death Note... well, to say he is ultimately totally unsympathetic wouldn't be fair to the knowledge that, whether it's a good thing or not, many people do sympathize with the idea that the world would be better off without some people and that justice is not always exacted (or at least not the way some people want it to be). I personally believe Light is truly only a villain, as he doesn't have an inch of sympathy in him and justifies his actions with some reasons, while his actions really have more origins in need for power, the assumption that he's better than anyone, self-satisfaction and boredom (in my opinion). As I see it, he's an antisocial individual. I don't agree with his reasons either.

I have a soft spot for villains that turn into friends. These characters automatically have both good and bad traits, which defines a multidimensional character.
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