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CheezcakeMe
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 Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:42 pm
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Final fantasy has to evolve if it wants to survive, and unfortunately turn based combat is a thing of the past in big budget games. Gamers these days like open worlds they can explore for days on end, and like action over drawn out strategy so either Final Fantasy caters to that, go for a more low budget indie style, or die out.
Frankly after the hell that was the XIII franchise this is a welcome change.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5912
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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| Quote: | | I'm disappointed that it doesn't seem to be following what made the previous games great, |
What made the previous Dead Rising games great? besides the black comedy
| Mr. Oshawott wrote: | | Perhaps the 3DS's technical limitations explain why the 3DS Edition of Super Mario Maker had no option for course-sharing on worldwide online or downloading courses from others. However, even with the 100 Mario Challenge, I don't see any reason besides portability to buy SMM For the 3DS when the WiiU version has plenty more options available... |
If you don't have a WiiU nor care about those options altogether it won't really matter all that much.
| Stuart Smith wrote: | | It just doesn't look very much like the Final Fantasy games that came before it. |
Which is funny since 7,8,10,12, & 13 don't look like any of the other games that came before it either.
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Themaster20000
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 863
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:28 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: |
| Quote: | | I'm disappointed that it doesn't seem to be following what made the previous games great, |
What made the previous Dead Rising games great? besides the black comedy
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I believe he's talking about the time system the other games had,which added a level tension to what you were doing,so you had to really plan your moves out. This one is getting rid of that.
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meiam
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3442
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:51 pm
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| CheezcakeMe wrote: | | Final fantasy has to evolve if it wants to survive, and unfortunately turn based combat is a thing of the past in big budget games. Gamers these days like open worlds they can explore for days on end, and like action over drawn out strategy so either Final Fantasy caters to that, go for a more low budget indie style, or die out.
Frankly after the hell that was the XIII franchise this is a welcome change. |
Do they? I don't remember any big JRPG going bust because turn based combat was bad. I replay FF10 not too long ago and turn based worked just fine
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5912
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:58 pm
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| Themaster20000 wrote: | |
I believe he's talking about the time system the other games had,which added a level tension to what you were doing,so you had to really plan your moves out. This one is getting rid of that. |
The time limit didn't make the game great though for that very reason you mentioned you couldn't go everywhere in the game with the clock ticking against you and therefore wouldn't be able to find or save every survivor.
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TarsTarkas
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5823
Location: Virginia, United States
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:26 am
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No Man's Sky - At first I had thought I had thrown away my money on this game, when my laptop couldn't load it. After a couple of weeks, it mysteriously started working. Probably some update fixed that. It's a nice game where you can lose hours of real time exploring planets. Made the mistake of not following the story line right away, and deprived myself of an access pass, for who knows how long. It is nice they are still working on improving the game.
Final Fantasy XV - Biggest flaw for me is the 'four guys' in a car motif. Great for some, not so great for others. Other flaw is the not so 40 hours of play time in the main story line, with players finishing the game in 13 hours. It's a pretty game, and I am sure plenty of people will like its game play, male cast, and its aesthetic. Hope it sells well, so the franchise can continue.
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partially
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oz
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:53 am
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| TarsTarkas wrote: | | Final Fantasy XV - Biggest flaw for me is the 'four guys' in a car motif. Great for some, not so great for others. Other flaw is the not so 40 hours of play time in the main story line, with players finishing the game in 13 hours. It's a pretty game, and I am sure plenty of people will like its game play, male cast, and its aesthetic. Hope it sells well, so the franchise can continue. |
The four guys in a car thing works a lot better than I thought it would actually. Was not expecting much of the game going in.
And the finishing the game in 13 hours is a bad thing? I think it is actually good. If you don't have a lot of gaming time and just want to play through the basic story you can. If you want to actually fully play the game through, you can do that too and get 40+ hours of game. It branches the game out into a lot of optional content unlike previous games. FF games (JRPGs in general really) are pretty notorious at adding a lot of padding to the games to reach 40 hours. Going back and forth, grinding mobs, etc. FFXV still has all the padding you want, just makes it more optional.
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Lord Oink
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:31 am
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| CheezcakeMe wrote: | | Final fantasy has to evolve if it wants to survive, and unfortunately turn based combat is a thing of the past in big budget games. Gamers these days like open worlds they can explore for days on end, and like action over drawn out strategy so either Final Fantasy caters to that, go for a more low budget indie style, or die out.
Frankly after the hell that was the XIII franchise this is a welcome change. |
Bull. Plenty of turn based RPGs still come out. And plenty of RPGs like Tales incorporate action combat without sacrificing RPG mechanics. I'm not sure what industry you're talking about but RPGs have always been more niche than other games. What you're saying is the same kind of logic someone would have if they say they should turn Final Fantasy into a shooter or sandbox because those games sell the best. If that's the audience Final Fantasy wants now, and judging by the FF7 remaking looking very similar to XV it is, then I'm suppose I'm done with the franchise for now.
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alorian
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 22
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:52 am
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| Pierrot. wrote: |
| meiam wrote: | | Haven't played that much of it yet, but F15 is definitely a great game, its just not a very final fantasy game. |
What is a final fantasy game? I hear this so many times and yet the answers I get are never the same. |
"And maybe I want to run away from it all. But living in the village with everyone fills me with joy. The joy of living with them far outweighs the fear of death. Isn't it the same for you? Traveling with your friends gives your life meaning." --Mr.288, FFIX
Final Fantasy is never going to be one thing to all people. But what makes Final Fantasy what it is is not game mechanics, graphics, chocobos, or theme music. Final Fantasy has always been about the story, the quest, the characters, and the time you as the player spend with them. I've been playing this franchise now since the first game, I've seen all the peaks and valleys, and I know that this is what Final Fantasy is, and means to me. //traveling with your friends gives your life meaning.//
When that concept succeeds, the game succeeds. When it fails, it fails. If you don't care about the people you're with, whatever button you hit to make them whack things doesn't matter.
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Beatdigga
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4364
Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:46 am
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People expect a more...I dunno...diverse cast. FF XV is one Seth Rogen short of a Hollywood road trip movie.
Last edited by Beatdigga on Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paiprince
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:04 pm
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| Beatdigga wrote: | | People expect a more...I dunno...diverse cast. FF XV is one Seth Rogen short of a Hollywood road trip music. |
You get female party members, but surprise, surprise they're guests.
Anyways, yeah FF isn't exactly the same "mold" in every game if you could call it that, but in this one...they went way, way overboard on the realism aspect. FF8 had irl cars yeah, but it's infrastructure and locales still had that "Fantasy" aesthetic going on. FFXV just looked like they pulled assets from GTA and Witcher and peppered it with the chocobos, monsters and airships. Granted, one main city still manages to capture the FF feel moreso than the rest of the world. I can't say I really like this game, but I'll admit it was an experiment. It's doing really well sales wise because of the misguided advertising for it, but let's just say I remain ever cautious of the series' future direction.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5912
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:29 pm
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| Lord Oink wrote: | | Bull. Plenty of turn based RPGs still come out. |
How many of them have the notierity of Final Fantasy?
| Lord Oink wrote: | | I'm not sure what industry you're talking about but RPGs have always been more niche than other games. |
Maybe Japanese RPGs yes but Western RPGs are considered less niche than their Japanese counterparts.
I find this particularly funny considering the complaints people had with XIII and it's linearity.
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Lord Oink
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:48 pm
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If by Western RPG you mean Skyrim, then sure. But stuff like Witcher and Dragon Age sold worse than FFXIII and XV will no doubt sell better as well. There's not a whole lot of Western RPGs being made anymore, especially compared to the output of JRPGs. Western RPGs are a good example of what abandoning the core does. Most of them are little more than shallow action games and shooters with character building. It's amazing to see how downhill Dragon Age went from 1 to 3 as the market shifted and Bioware chased after it. That's why I don't like seeing FF following the same path.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5912
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:57 pm
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| Lord Oink wrote: | | But stuff like Witcher and Dragon Age sold worse than FFXIII and XV will no doubt sell better as well. |
Yes because of name recognition and brand exposure. FF has been around since the 80's whereas the Witcher's been around (as a video game) since 2007, With DragonAge being around since 2009. So none of their games were going to pull the same numbers as 13 or 15 which they don't actually have to do.
| Lord Oink wrote: | | There's not a whole lot of Western RPGs being made anymore, |
Traditional ones maybe but western RPG's are still being made.
| Lord Oink wrote: | | especially compared to the output of JRPGs. |
....That's not really a bad thing especially considering how having more of something isn't necessarily a good thing, that's why you have people who complain about the gaming market being inundated with shooters because almost every game is a shooter. Which isn't unlike almost every game in the 80's and 90's being a platformer, fighter, or RPG.
| Lord Oink wrote: | | It's amazing to see how downhill Dragon Age went from 1 to 3 as the market shifted and Bioware chased after it. |
Chasing markets didn't really have to do with the issues between the the first and second Dragon Age game that was just Bioware trying to make something less awkward and pissing off people who liked that awkward element i.e. the combat.
| Lord Oink wrote: | | That's why I don't like seeing FF following the same path. |
Part of FF's problem is that Square is stuck every few years, between trying to reinvigorate a long running game franchise with multiple entries with new ideas and fresh mechanics or staying the course and making games that are pretty much similar in gameplay aspects and story elements to the FF's of old but with a fresh coat of paint.
There's no easy outcome for this and whatever route they choose is going to piss off one group or turn off another.
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Stuart Smith
Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:17 am
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | Which is funny since 7,8,10,12, & 13 don't look like any of the other games that came before it either. |
The only difference between pre-7 and 7 and beyond was the change from 2D to 3D. It was a very successful transition that managed to capture the feel perfectly.
I'm really curious to see next weeks sales numbers out of Japan. Japanese gamers have been tearing the game apart. The hatred I've been seeing for XV is unlike any other I've seen for a Final Fantasy game. It's getting the same level of hatred SO5 got, only magnified since FF is a much bigger franchise.
-Stuart Smith
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