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INTEREST: 6-Year-Old Idol Skips Kindergarten After TV Program Falsely Reports Boy She Likes


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SheRrIs





PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:13 pm Reply with quote
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:46 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
Unlike America, Japan does not suspect every stranger they meet to be a potential threat and give into hysteria.


Really? Because literally everything I've ever read makes it seem like Japan has a phobia of having their children anywhere near an unknown adult man. I have been told many first hand stories of men getting arrested, or questioned, simply for being somewhere within the vicinity of a child. A guy I know was questioned by the police while literally photographing birds in a park because someone felt unsafe having their children playing around him(for the record, he's about as good of a person as someone could possibly be and doesn't look suspicious at all). I don't know what idyllic world you are talking about, but Japan has a massive problem with suspecting every stranger they meet. Especially if that stranger happens to not look Japanese.
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Chester McCool



Joined: 06 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:32 am Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
Especially if that stranger happens to not look Japanese.


That's just common sense. Foreigners commit more crimes on average
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:53 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
Japan is not a fearmongering country like America is. The public does not get alarmed because to rational people there is no reason to be alarmed. Japan is a country where children are allowed to walk to school without parents supervision, and sees very little crime. Unlike America, Japan does not suspect every stranger they meet to be a potential threat and give into hysteria. The past few months have shown me just how hysterical and overreacting a lot of Americans can be. Have you considered the problem lies within you rather than Japan or the industry? The odds of you being the one true enlightened person to see the light where millions others cannot is highly unlikely.


Unfortunately, I'm of the impression that crimes in Japan, particularly cases of sexual assault and abuse, often go unreported and/or unenforced, in part because of personal embarrassment, in part because of police indifference, and in part because of cultural desires to maintain the public harmony.

To my understanding, the Japanese sentiment of allowing children to walk in public without supervision is becoming less common in recent years, particularly in the bigger cities due to rising fears of public predators. Certainly, if Japanese people felt as though strangers were completely trustworthy, they wouldn't have implemented female-only passenger cars for their metro system, in response to numerous reports of perverts copping feels on the railways.

I don't believe you can convince me (or anyone of a normal disposition) that the act of adult male strangers ogling prepubescent girls isn't repulsive, frightening and disturbing. If you're really of the impression that adult men playing games of Twister with elementary school children, or paying money to play card games with them on long bus rides, that any of that is "okay" --- it brings a lot of your personal philosophy into sharp question.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Chester McCool wrote:
relyat08 wrote:
Especially if that stranger happens to not look Japanese.


That's just common sense. Foreigners commit more crimes on average


That only reinforces my point. They treat single Japanese men similarly though. Stuart is wrong on this one. Japan has a fear of single adult men being anywhere near their children, or women in general, that is pretty extreme. Like Kikaioh noted, they even have women only train cars. Not using it as a source, but it probably is noteworthy that anime uses jokes about Japan's fear of predatory men all the time. The MC gets suspected of being a pervert for being somewhere in the vicinity of a girl, etc etc.
Stuart's "America sucks and Japan is amazing because they don't suspect people" argument is just totally wrong.
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:34 pm Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
That only reinforces my point. They treat single Japanese men similarly though. Stuart is wrong on this one. Japan has a fear of single adult men being anywhere near their children, or women in general, that is pretty extreme. Like Kikaioh noted, they even have women only train cars. Not using it as a source, but it probably is noteworthy that anime uses jokes about Japan's fear of predatory men all the time. The MC gets suspected of being a pervert for being somewhere in the vicinity of a girl, etc etc.
Stuart's "America sucks and Japan is amazing because they don't suspect people" argument is just totally wrong.


If we're going to use anime as a source I've seen plenty of kids and teenagers approach strangers just fine without worry. Old shrine guardians, shopkeepers, businessmen on the street.

Wait wasn't this just covered in one of those Answerman articles?

Answerman wrote:
] Japanese kids learn at a very early age that most strangers can be relied on for help. Tokyo in particular has such a dense population that, in public, it's very hard to not at least be within earshot of SOMEBODY. This great trust in common decency and general safety is the main reason why such young kids are given such tremendous latitude with their lives, for better or worse.


Kids aren't as stupid as people like to think. The differences in what constitutes a children show in America in Japan are proof enough that they're giving more respect for their intelligence
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
relyat08 wrote:
That only reinforces my point. They treat single Japanese men similarly though. Stuart is wrong on this one. Japan has a fear of single adult men being anywhere near their children, or women in general, that is pretty extreme. Like Kikaioh noted, they even have women only train cars. Not using it as a source, but it probably is noteworthy that anime uses jokes about Japan's fear of predatory men all the time. The MC gets suspected of being a pervert for being somewhere in the vicinity of a girl, etc etc.
Stuart's "America sucks and Japan is amazing because they don't suspect people" argument is just totally wrong.


If we're going to use anime as a source I've seen plenty of kids and teenagers approach strangers just fine without worry. Old shrine guardians, shopkeepers, businessmen on the street.


We aren't using anime as a source. Just because some people aren't afraid of strangers doesn't take away from the fact that many people are. There is still that attitude out there. And it's prevalent enough to show up in a lot of literature, news, and other media, like anime. Which is my point.
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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Kikaioh wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm of the impression that crimes in Japan, particularly cases of sexual assault and abuse, often go unreported and/or unenforced, in part because of personal embarrassment, in part because of police indifference, and in part because of cultural desires to maintain the public harmony.

To my understanding, the Japanese sentiment of allowing children to walk in public without supervision is becoming less common in recent years, particularly in the bigger cities due to rising fears of public predators. Certainly, if Japanese people felt as though strangers were completely trustworthy, they wouldn't have implemented female-only passenger cars for their metro system, in response to numerous reports of perverts copping feels on the railways.

I don't believe you can convince me (or anyone of a normal disposition) that the act of adult male strangers ogling prepubescent girls isn't repulsive, frightening and disturbing. If you're really of the impression that adult men playing games of Twister with elementary school children, or paying money to play card games with them on long bus rides, that any of that is "okay" --- it brings a lot of your personal philosophy into sharp question.


Your impression isn't wrong. I'm fairly certain that first paragraph has been confirmed at least a couple of times in some article or survey before. (I wish I could remember where I saw it.)

But I thoroughly agree with your entire comment.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:09 pm Reply with quote
Chester McCool wrote:
relyat08 wrote:
Especially if that stranger happens to not look Japanese.


That's just common sense. Foreigners commit more crimes on average


About as common sense as the statement coming out of your ass.
I get it, you're living in a post-fact world. Fortunately not everyone is.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:17 pm Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
Really? Because literally everything I've ever read makes it seem like Japan has a phobia of having their children anywhere near an unknown adult man. I have been told many first hand stories of men getting arrested, or questioned, simply for being somewhere within the vicinity of a child. A guy I know was questioned by the police while literally photographing birds in a park because someone felt unsafe having their children playing around him(for the record, he's about as good of a person as someone could possibly be and doesn't look suspicious att all). I don't know what idyllic world you are talking about, but Japan has a massive problem with suspecting every stranger they meet. Especially if that stranger happens to not look Japanese.


Outliers always exist, but they don't disprove a rule. For what it's worth even as a gaijin, strangers are fiendly to me when I visit Japan. Any suspicion directed my way I would understand and not take personally given the reputation of my people, though.

Kikaioh wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm of the impression that crimes in Japan, particularly cases of sexual assault and abuse, often go unreported and/or unenforced, in part because of personal embarrassment, in part because of police indifference, and in part because of cultural desires to maintain the public harmony.


Underreported crimes happen in every country, it's not something exclusive to Japan. That doesn't change the fact Japan is a much safer place than America is. My own personal experience along with all my expat collegues tell me the same thing if you refuse to believe statistics.

It's a bit funny you mention card games though given I did play Duel Masters with a kid in Japan, but I disgress. My original point was if those news stories don't bring up any negative public opinions I don't see why you should either. Let them decide what is or isn't a problem. Considering those kinds of celebrity meet and greets are heavily monitored by managers, there's nothing really to worry about anyway. I'm sure the fans would appreciate people not judging them and making assumptions though.

-Stuart Smith
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Considering the giant "beware of chikan" signs that are literally everywhere in every Japanese train and subway car I'd say people don't in fact feel as safe in regards to molesters as you seem to believe
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Kikaioh wrote:

To my understanding, the Japanese sentiment of allowing children to walk in public without supervision is becoming less common in recent years, particularly in the bigger cities due to rising fears of public predators.


I have practically spent the last six months in Japan (Yokota, Zama, Yokosuka, Sasebo, and Okinawa). What you said could be true in Tokyo and Yokohama, but of the cities I mentioned it definitely is not true. Even got to see a mother training her very young daughter how to walk to the bus, and most likely she even went all the way to school. And it is not unusual to see kids in uniform wandering through the shopping arcades in the late afternoon and early evening.
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BlueBitterCoffee



Joined: 21 Apr 2014
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:00 am Reply with quote
I HATE Idol culture for many reasons included in this article.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:28 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
Underreported crimes happen in every country, it's not something exclusive to Japan. That doesn't change the fact Japan is a much safer place than America is. My own personal experience along with all my expat collegues tell me the same thing if you refuse to believe statistics.

It's a bit funny you mention card games though given I did play Duel Masters with a kid in Japan, but I disgress. My original point was if those news stories don't bring up any negative public opinions I don't see why you should either. Let them decide what is or isn't a problem. Considering those kinds of celebrity meet and greets are heavily monitored by managers, there's nothing really to worry about anyway. I'm sure the fans would appreciate people not judging them and making assumptions though.


Certainly under-reported crimes happen in every country, but my impression is that Japan's culture lends itself much more to it compared to other countries. There's been a lot of discussion over the years about their male-dominated culture and the prevalence of chikan, and the situation seems to be a bit ways more worrisome for women there; you can hear some of the concerns voiced by people who've lived in Japan for some time on the following pages:

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-rape-statistics-for-Japan-so-low
http://howibecametexan.com/2013/08/29/things-i-hate-about-japan-chikan-perverts/
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2013/10/23/voices/japan-no-safe-country-for-foreign-women/#.WIYAYFw8ZpA

Also, I'm not unfamiliar with everyday life in Japan, having stayed/visited in various cities throughout the country a number of times over the last decade for homestay, university study, and general travel. Certainly it's safe to walk the streets at night without fear of getting mugged, particularly considering the citizens can't carry firearms. For women, however, it's a different story, and certainly makes me that much more frightened for young girls.

And regardless of the presence of managers, it doesn't change the fact that these adult strangers are physically allowed to come in contact with and "play games" with these little girls. This isn't about judging or making assumptions --- culture like this shouldn't be happening, or encouraged, in the first place.

TarsTarkas wrote:
Kikaioh wrote:

To my understanding, the Japanese sentiment of allowing children to walk in public without supervision is becoming less common in recent years, particularly in the bigger cities due to rising fears of public predators.


I have practically spent the last six months in Japan (Yokota, Zama, Yokosuka, Sasebo, and Okinawa). What you said could be true in Tokyo and Yokohama, but of the cities I mentioned it definitely is not true. Even got to see a mother training her very young daughter how to walk to the bus, and most likely she even went all the way to school. And it is not unusual to see kids in uniform wandering through the shopping arcades in the late afternoon and early evening.


The last I visited Japan was a little over 6 years ago, and was traveling throughout the country at the time (Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka, Okayama, Hiroshima, Fukuoka and Kumamoto). From my recollection, I would say that the presence of kids on trains seemed a lot more prevalent in the smaller cities and larger towns, than in the large cities like Tokyo. Admittedly it's been a while since I last visited, and so my current understanding comes from news reports and talks with friends in recent years, though I think combined with the rise of outspoken reports of perverts on passenger trains, parents are likely a bit ways more concerned about their children, particularly young girls, than in times past.
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