Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
|
|||||
That's a very good point. Akito spoiler[is tormented by Ren, who believes Akito is stealing Akira's love. So, the cycle of abuse continues and Akito starts tormenting Yuki to feel superior. Plus, I think even a kid with a normal upbringing and with normal parents would become warped if she were constantly told, "You're God. The fate of these 13 people rests with you. You control their destiny ..." And, add to that being head of the family with servants catering to her whims and it's no wonder she's spoiled and demanding, mental issues aside.] On another note, I found Vol. 18 at the bookstore today. I didn't realize it was out; I went to the bookstore because I was bored and found it. -Murph |
||||||
|
||||||
aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
|
|||||
I think that it was Hana the author of the words that made Kyo act the way he did. We see along the way that Hana perceives with her spoiler["gift" a lot of the sensations that Kyo has, even feelings. And I think that she was actually the one that said the words. If you have observed along the play there are a few characters who state their own point of view apart from the play: Uo-chan sends that message to Kureno, asking him to see her, "dammit"  , then there was Kyo wondering how he will bother people if he will remain locked and even Tohru being horriefied by this prospect. ] I don't know how much of the play has been written and how much has been "adapted"  along the way.
As for Akito, well, we all know that spoiler[her brain might have been damaged both by Ren and by the surrounding people (I especially refer here to the old maid). She is capable of many evil things, but I admit that she has her own reasons.] |
||||||
|
||||||
eyesopen0791
 Posts: 108 Location: A Sleepy Town in California |
|
|||||
Oh, ok, that clears things up. I got that Uo expressed her true feelings along the way, but the scene with Hana and Kyo, I wasn't sure. When you point it out like that, it seems then that Hana is pushing Kyo gently toward Tohru because he sure doesn't seem to Hana at least to be making any move forward himself. You know, what I also got from Vol 15 is Yuki's early relationship with his brother, which is mentioned as spoiler[indifference but looks to me also like contempt.] I had felt sorry for Ayame when he first appeared but seeing him in Vol 15, I felt anger toward him in how he spoiler[badly treated Yuki as much as their mother did.] In Aya's defense, he barely remembered Yuki's existence, and now after reading about Yuki's childhood, can also see that maybe spoiler[Akito was feeding lies about Yuki to all the other Zodiac members, just like Akito was feeding lies to Yuki about how the other Zodiac members felt about him.] I also noticed what terrible luck Yuki's parents had. It's bad enough when one child is a Zodiac member, but both of your children? Not good at all. No defense of their actions, just an observation. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
|
|||||
I just finished reading Vol. 18, and I can't believe spoiler[the attitude that old maid takes with Kureno after he frees Rin from the cat's room. She's starting to annoy me as much as Akito. ] I love 'Sorta Cinderella!' I think Kyo spoiler[gets a hint that Tohru knows what will happen to him, if Akito gets her way. He knows that at least one person will mourn for him, if he's locked away, but he's still resigning himself to that fate. To Tohru, I think her reaction during the play just solidifies her will to do something to break the curse. ] -Murph |
||||||
|
||||||
LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
|
|||||
I think that Akito lies to everyone including himeself! Akito wants the Zodiac to think only of Akito not of themselves, other members of the Zodiac, their families, other Sohma family members or outsides. Akito wants to have them all to himself but keep them seperate from each other at the same time. But it doesn't work that way but Akito, in his madness (Yes, I think that Akito is quite mad in a way) does not and cannot see that. Murph, we are going to have to discuss that spoiler[old maid] aren't we! I think that she's the same person who spoiler[led Yuki and his mother to Akito in this volume that we're discussing now. The one saying that the birth of the Rat was a cause for celebration in the Sohma family...yeah, right!] |
||||||
|
||||||
|
eyesopen0791
Posts: 108 Location: A Sleepy Town in California |
|
|||||
|
About Akito and Ren, looking forward to reading how the later volumes go deeper into their twisted relationship. For right now, I think Ren is wrong in that the spoiler[Zodiac bond doesn't exist. It is there, it courses through the blood of the Zodiac members and God, and people who don't have the blood won't understand what the Zodiac is going through.] I wonder how much of the curse affected Akito's madness and how much is caused by Ren.
Also, for the first time, we see a possible weakness in Akito, the mother, Ren. I mean before Akito was this horrid awful villian with no seemingly weak defenses to attack spoiler[her, but Ren may be one path to bring down Akito]. I can't read the spoilers on Vol 18 because my Borders won't get it until Sunday. Stupid bookstore!  They should have made sure it was on the bookshelves when it was released!
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
|
|||||
Is she? I can't remember. spoiler[She is a real two faced bitch, in my opinion. Sucking up to Akito and then acting as if she's better than the rest of the Zodiac. Is she a Sohma? I don't know if the manga ever tells us that.] Well, if anything, this gives me an excuse to reread that volume (which I probably should have done already). I can't wait to hear your opinion on Vol. 18, Lydia. There's a certain chapter or two I think you'll really enjoy.
-Murph |
||||||
|
||||||
|
LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
|
|||||
I think I know which one's you are talking about...less than 3 weeks and you'll get my opinion! 
|
||||||
|
||||||
suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
|
|||||
|
ha ha. i got it last week. but then i have already read the series.
what i really hate is tokyopops release for it. i have to wait untill march for one of the best volumes. also, 18 spoiler[finally reveals the true feelings Machi and Yuki have for each other, and it's the beginning of their third year in high school] |
||||||
|
||||||
|
murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
|
|||||
|
Yeah, I cheated and read the whole series, too. So, Vol. 18 wasn't a surprise, but I had forgotton some of the details. Watching spoiler[Yuki and Machi's relationship deepen was definitely one of the highlights.]
-Murph |
||||||
|
||||||
|
fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
|
|||||
|
The spoiler[play brought some new questions into mind, such as the relationship between Arisa and Kureno, as well as between Kyo and Tohru. Kyo realizes something when Tohru starts to speak out of context, which isn't something for a girl for her to do during a play when she had a hard enough time as it is learning the lines. ]
I can definetly agree on joining in on the conversation about spoiler[the old maid. She is a Sohma, yet we never get her actual name, but she seems to put herself into a position that I think she wants to or sees the need to run the Sohma clan. She does what she sees best for Akito or Akira, and opposes anyone who would seem to stand up to Akito.] |
||||||
|
||||||
|
LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
|
|||||
|
Another Friday, and the last one before that Horror of Horrors! -Black Friday
  aka The Day After Thanksgiving.
So in an attempt to ease my upcoming trauma, let's start the discussion of Vol. 16! It starts off with Kyo obviously trying to make memories that will carrying him over through spoiler[the years of his up-coming imprisonment. And because he is doing this, I sort of get the feeling that he's given up. That he believes that he won't beat Yuki and he will spend the rest of his life in that room - with only memories to sustain him...and hurt him. Surprisingly, one of his memories is a long talk with Kyoko (ya know, I just noticed the similarity in their names!  Hmmm, I wonder what sort of point Takaya-san was trying to make with that?) We've said that Rin, Yuki and Kyo have some of the worst parents - Kyoko's ain't that far behind! ""In this world, there are people who are needed and people who aren't. You're the latter, you ungrateful child." "Why did you turn out like this? Do you realize how angry your father will be at me? Do you know what the neighbors are saying?" The first quote comes from a jerk (yes, I'm being polite!) and the second comes from a woman who is obviously concerned with appearances. ]
Then Kyoko met Katsuya Honda. When they met, Kyoko was spoiler[ going pretty much berserk at school. But when Katsuya asked her "What's making you so angry?" and seeing her yell, scream then fall apart was just fascinating. A simple question, asked with sincerity made this wild child collapse into tears.] I loved, LOVED, LOVED!!!! Katsuya's comment to her parents spoiler[when she got out of the hospital after leaving her gang in an attempt to turn her life around: "So she didn't turn out how you wanted. That means she isn't yours? If she makes a mistake, you won't acknowledge her as your child? I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were saints. Well. Unless you believe you can drop parenthood the minute it becomes inconvenient." How wonderfully and nastily pointed! I wonder if they even felt the dagger as it slipped through their ribs?!]
The part that gets a laugh is when she asks him spoiler["Do you have a Lolita complex?" and he replies "This is your fault. You were born late.] That made me laugh because that also signifies their relationship - one of love and laughter. It was hard watching Kyoko freak out when she discovered that she was pregnant. I think that she went through the thoughts that a lot of people have when they've had a bad childhood but, once again, Katsuya brought things into perspective to her - she's been through it herself...spoiler[so she knows what to do and what not to do with a child. And, he'll be there to help.] Seeing Kyoko after Katsuya spoiler[died, made me cry. She needed him so much. He was her sun. Just like she was his. Stupid family members - on both sides! Bastards!] It's really no wonder why Kyo, after all this time, remember Kyoko's words - because he felt the same way himself. spoiler[Why am I here if no one loves me? I think that the reason why Kyo and Kyoko are here because there is someone who loves them. Someone who was meant for them and only them. Someone who, also, would be lost if they were not there for them.] Then from one difficult subject, into another...poor Machi spoiler[trying to understand why Yuki is asking her questions. And wondering why her opinion matters to him. It looks like she received a phone call from her mother. I'm not really sure how to put into words what I think but the phone call seems 1) out of duty 2) her mother really isn't interested in anything that Machi has to say. Machi knows this and that's probably why she can't respond. She really doesn't know how. People have "wanted" her opinion but in reality, they didn't want it. Yuki truly does and that fact has made Machi even more unsure of herself, I think.] Machi reacts a bit like Kyoko did. spoiler[Saying/acting one thing/way but meaning the opposite.] And of course, Kakeru has to be a jerk at the end of chapter 94 and announce to everyone that Machi likes Red - wink, wink, nudge, nudge! Finally, what a way to start out the New Year! spoiler[Apologizing to Akito and getting attacked for doing so...or actually for having "Those eyes" which I'm sure that we'll learn more about in the upcoming volumes - especially since Kureno was shown and we know that Kureno has escaped the curse already.] Yuki is really showing that he's grown up in the fact that he did spoiler[apologize to Akito and to Hatori for blaming them for things that none of them really had any control over...well, Hatori at least.] And, lastly, was Momiji giving Kureno a New Year's Gift from Tohru! 
Ouch! I just looked back on this and I wrote a long one today but this volume (and the future ones) just have so much to talk about in them! |
||||||
|
||||||
|
suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
|
|||||
|
ah, volume 16. spoiler[Kyoko's story is both hilarious and heart breaking. she and Katsuya have some of the funniest lines in recent books, but all of Kyoko's heartache is shown in very brief order. Her parents, her pregnancy and Katsuya's death. the saddest(but also relieving) is that she was about to kill herself when she heard the girl say "mama" and then she realized that she still had Tohru to both love and be loved by. ]
also, in volume 12, when Tohru spoiler[visits her Grandpa, and he says something along the lines of "I want to see them (Kyoko and Katsuya)" she remembers her mother saying the same thing, but obviouly, in that volume we did not know who was really speaking and the context of the statement. but those words shook Tohru to her core and she was stricken with grief (untill Kyo came along). and now we know why. she was so close to losing her mother, closer than i think she realizes, and she can't bear the thought of losing another person that is percious to her *ahem*] a final thought on the first part of volume 16, spoiler[Kyo's worst nightmare. one, he had to relive another tragic moment from his past, which i will not speak of for those who have not read about it, and he saw an image of his mother speaking the same words she said when he was a boy, "don't go outside". and we also see that he fears his imprisonment. but his worst fear, is that something will happen to Tohru. the look in his eyes is haunting. after this nightmare, he seems to lose all hope of finding true happiness, a hope that he got during the vol. 15 play. ] man, what a depressing volume |
||||||
|
||||||
|
fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
|
|||||
|
If I had to say which volume is the best out of the series, this volume is definetly a very strong contender for that spot. The love story between Kyoko and Katsuya proves it. Katsuya spoiler[opened up Kyoko's world in so many ways she wanted to change her life around, until the gang found her. She didn't end up so lucky like Arisa did when she got out.]
Her spoiler[parents are similar to those that you would find within the Sohma clan. Not wanting to understand their child and making themselves seem like the victims. Even after Katsuya's death, they didn't want her coming back at all, did they even care about their grandchild at all?] spoiler[The Honya clan wasn't much better. They were against the marriage, and even questioned whether Tohru was really Katsuya's child at his funeral. So Kyoko received NO comfort after his death, which made even worse for her to take.] spoiler[Their marriage was a happy one, for they were truly in love with each other. Even though there was eight years between them, they still made it work out. Katsuya was always supporting of Kyoko, even when she became pregnant, knowing that she might do something to her child. The thing that made her scared the most was if the child were to feel the same way she did. And for once she understood what she had done to her mom when she asked why she was even born.] I could definetly feel for Kyoko when spoiler[Katsuya died, to have to go to his work for his belongings, and then funeral procession, then to the thoughts of suicide. Fortunately for her there was something she still had of Katsuya, and that was Tohru. So she realized that she to live for something, and that something was right in front of her.] |
||||||
|
||||||
Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
|
|||||
|
I've fallen behind again on the discussion of the past volume, but I did get a chance to read Volume 18 today! Can I just take a moment to say that it's the shippiest volume so far and I am so grateful Natsuki Takaya created this series. It's truely been a pleasure to read and I wish I could get my brain ordered enough to talk about it more. (It's the last few weeks of college. Tests, presentations, papers, and prayers.)
A very small comment on 18: I've always liked Motoko Minagawa. From the very first time I got to meet her, I felt like she was spoiler[the only Yuki fangirl who really did have feelings for him. It really made me happy to see her tell him and thank him for all the joy he'd brought her just by being a part of her highschool life.] Also, I really identify with Machi's POV about life. spoiler[Being expected to always be at ones best is nerve wracking, even if you're allowed to mess up. And damn she's so perfect for Yuki it's scary. (I used to hope for Motoko to get him but wow Machi's such a better match. They're soulmates.)] About Volume 16: It was really shocking to see the scenes after spoiler[Katsuya's death and find that Kyoko basically slipped into a total depression so great she virtually forgot Tohru existed.] My family experienced a tragedy a long time back, unexpected and much less pleasant than spoiler[dying of a sudden illness], and it made my mother fall apart in much the same way. I don't really remember much of that time, but I do know that how spoiler[Kyoko] is depicted in this volume is so real it's terrifying. (It makes me wonder if the author's been through something like this or seen someone go through it. She's gifted with an amazing talent for realistic emotional story-telling either way.) @ LydiaDianne: Katsuya deserves a medal for what he said to spoiler[Kyoko's parents. And the way he answered her question about a Lolita complex], I'm going to have to file that one away in case I need it in the future. (Ah who am I kidding, I'm destined to remain unnecessary.)
Everything about this volume felt so natural and real, it's kind of hard to remember sometimes that these characters aren't actually real people. I almost feel like I could visit Japan and bump into Tohru on the streets or have a cup of tea with Kagura or buy something cute from Ayame's shop. (For the girlfriend I'll probably never have.) |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group