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18if (TV).


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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:31 pm Reply with quote


18if (TV)

Source: Original

Demographic: Everyone

Animation Studio: Gonzo

Genres: drama, mystery, psychological, supernatural

Themes: dreams

Plot Summary: One day, Haruto wakes up on a round bed in a strange room, with the only familiar things around being his smartphone and headphones. After encountering a strange girl in white named Lily who claims to be his sister and a man who looks like a cat, Haruto learns that he is in a dream belonging to Yuko, a girl stricken with Sleeping Beauty Syndrome.

Yuko is the Witch of Thunder, an all-powerful woman who makes the dream world bow before her to ensure she's known the strongest, the best, and the most fun person around. Haruto's sister tells him that he must wake Yuko up by killing her in the dream in order to break the “spell” she's under, but Haruto's got some other ideas about what might be keeping Yuko asleep.

Air Date & Platform:
July 7, 2017 (Friday)
Available on: Crunchyroll, FUNimation

Episode Count / Runtime: 13 episodes
----------------------------------

I was kind of talking about this show on the "What are you watching right now? Why?" thread in the general Anime section, and I kind of talked about it enough that I decided that I would make this thread if the series continued to be of interest. I think it has, so I will copy what I wrote in the general thread before writing about the newest episode.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:35 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
One of the shows I have been watching that does not deserve its own discussion is 18if, and I am writing this after watching episode 5. The show has been lacklustre in a number of areas. If I had to guess the anime's point is to address a number of issues that young women experience, show it in an empathic way by the use of dream like aspects, but most of the time it does not feel like it knows what to do with its aesthetics, or even its message, that it ends up as a mess. This episode itself was BS I think in the meaning ended up being along the lines to wake up from your dreams, the dream here beingspoiler[ that a girl who had been forced into celebrity figure skating could have a normal life, so she could not fight destiny of the rink]. The main guy even kind of said it earlier that spoiler[normal life is boring and she should be happy she has a talent], he has supposed to be written as totally understanding, but this ran counter.

But this does not even overcome the really weird twist in the episode, wherespoiler[ apparently she woke up as an old woman]? What?! There was no foreshadowing to this, the dream world she finds herself in based on her mind is filled with modern aspects like laptops and modern karaoke, not something to hint she had been in a coma for 40 years. This dream world itself has reality concerning problems too, as how would she even know even know what a normal college life was like if she was forced into skating so much. And that is one of the confusing parts of this show, it is left very ambiguous if things are only surface level of what the dreamer would know, or if it is a fully functioning world. The aesthetics in this episode not helping where it would seem everyone but her and our main character were pretty much static images as if just a backdrop, which made him asking around with them just confusing.

And yet the episode tried to get around it in him saying that he is a college student so he should be able to show her around that type of life. But I thought that he had no memories of who is, that was established earlier and I have not seen it amended until he said something like this. And I think is part of an aspect that this show is pretty bad at keeping a narrative consistency. Like in one episode the mysterious girl who calls him big brother is seen on rare occasions and to the cat guy she treated as almost a rumour of being rare, and the next she is sleeping next to the main character like it is nothing and the cat guy questions her being there like it is normal maybe even spotting her when this should be the first time he has seen someone so important.

With episode 4 I could see that the answer to the problem of a spoiler[binge eating bulimic should be that she should learn a healthy way of living of generally eating what makes her happy, and be within reason, that some food will not balloon her and would be okay to eat some things occasionally]. But I don't even quite know what the message was, something about a spoiler[memory of eating curry as a kid], I am pretty sure it was not what it was supposed to be at actually confronting the problem. There was also a douchebag boyfriend that if anything she was lucky to get away from.

Or episode 3, which actually did have a rather interesting idea of playing around with perception with the story, but had some pretty big fails I think in properly telegraphing these changes in perception that it came across as kind of confusing. And I can really recall what the meaning of the story was, and that is one of the big problems, this show sucks at having some moral of the story to take away from these events.

Episode 2 might have been even worse in that it finished with the main character spoiler[becoming a murderer]. That episode was pretty gruesome, and it seemed to be kind of setting up a story with the main character that the heroine of the episode was twisting into something ugly in her search for vengeance. The main character specifically asking if he could watch had a feeling that it was being used to echo back the big psychopath of the episode, that she was being a bad guy, but in the end spoiler[she kills them and then seems to go onto a happy normal life like she is not a sociopath now]. In the narrative it was pretty clear that these guys were bad guys and perhaps was better to off them, but that is something the narrative set up, just to kind of meet this revenge fantasy plot and never face the kind of hypocrisy that was starting to leak through.

And maybe this falls through that I cannot even build a consistent personality for our hero of the show, because it feels like it changes every episode in what he is like. One episode he is getting gifts from cat professor of food (somehow), the next he is being passive aggressive by cooking purposely bad food for him. One time he is ready to dive into the problems facing a girl, the next it was like he did not want to get bothered by all the dreams, and then the next he is jumping in again.

Is anyone else watching this, and are you having an easier time?


DuskyPredator wrote:
Gina Szanboti wrote:
I kinda stalled out after the 2nd episode (I keep forgetting what the show is about and so have little incentive to watch it when I have other stuff to do), and your post makes me think I should just drop it. It's one of those shows that's somewhat interesting while I'm watching it, but doesn't stick to the ribs once I'm finished with the episode.

The entire show feels like it is trying to take the witch labyrinths from Madoka and be about different issues. Which could be fine, that was a really creative part of that series and could be used as the basis of good stories. But it becomes a problem that it feels like the dream aspects are largely window dressing, it does not really know that much how to use it creatively like how Madoka pretty much makes it a spectacle of what is running through the subconscious of the witch, or other parties in general Shaft. And perhaps forgettable because despite there being a build up for some resolution, largely it just does not land it.

I want to find others that might have seen some, otherwise it feels like I am shouting at the void while I am watching something largely meant for the female demographic, like Scared Riders Xechs ( Mad ), pretty much acting like the Grinch.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Episode 6

And here is the surprise of my opinion, episode 6 was actually good. I already said that this show tends to focus on issues that young women can experience, and that was true about this episode, it was on bullying, which might sound a bit broad, but it was also relatable, and I actually could relate to the topic. I hope that this was not a sole reason for me liking this episode, but it may be.

In specifics, it had a high school girl harassed by some horrible classmates in a specific way girls might, and our heroine (sorry I am bad at remembering names) seems to be a bit of an otaku in her favourite series is sort of an escapism from the horrible stuff she has to deal with. It actually really confused me and I did not like it at first, but the episode started as if it was this hypothetical anime, which although weird, I think played well for a theme of the episode, and maybe as a whole in the episodic nature of this series. There is some nice use of colour that made her real world feel quite cold, and probably shadows in ways I do not understand. It cultivating in her spoiler[attempting suicide via cutting herself in the bathtub]. Now that can sound a little extreme, but in comparison to previous episodes of family murder and disgruntled professional ice skater, this felt like it hit a good balance.

From there it became her in a dream world of her favourite series, but although she fights monster as a sort of power fantasy for a girl who feels powerless, she finds that it is all she can do and is otherwise alone. This felt like a good use of kind of showing the somewhat positive nature of fiction acting as an escape, but also not a means to an end at still being lonely. I could totally feel her "why me" moment it felt relatable, and fed into the kind of revenge fantasy it was setting up, that we could even go to an extent when Haruto said that the girls were getting what they deserved when Kanzaki is trying to convince him to intervene. Although it kind of set up one of the confusing parts of this episode, as this series has been so inconsistent in how he can with intention go after someone, that somehow Kanzaki could lead Haruto.

But also, I think it was also getting expressed how the people were kind of unneeded to have the level of harassment put back onto them that they could get hurt. Yet also that the people who merely ignored the bullying were just as bad in cases as the bullies. And going to the end of the episode, I think it was sort of wrong with a bad taste that the episode finished with the bullies getting harassed by a lot of people like this was merely just deserts, when we were already informed by how damaging this is. It might have been better if the show did not feel so gleeful over these girls receiving I think even worse harassment.

But before finishing to talk about the episode, I think my favourite part was how when the heroine was spoiler[talked out of continuing her attacks, she said that she could not go back to normal because it was too late]. Which was then followed up by a quick spoiler[shift of the genre to sci-fi as she said the invasion already started], like this was some dream logic, and placed some importance on what the escapism of her "otaku" interests are. Great in that our main character here decided to go with the flow and join her in this mecha fare, that he would kind of accept this side of her and not have her feel ostracised. With just a touch of a clumsy landing I think in him saying she is a bit of an otaku like he is judging her, and that it simply took her being informed she is still alive to leave the dream, and him saying the outside world as harsh reality. That last bit feels like it should have been slightly changed if somewhat reversed, that she should have said it is harsh, and he provide some advice that there could be things she do to change it, to assure her that she does have power in her own life and not try and throw it away.

Despite the small nit-picks, I do think that it still had this as the best episode yet, and actually enjoyable.
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horseradish



Joined: 27 Oct 2015
Posts: 574
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:07 am Reply with quote
Episode 6

I liked episode 6. The visuals in this episode were much better than the last episode's numerous still frames. I thought the bullying leading to Natsuki (witch) attempting suicide was handled well. It was hard to believe that the bully group was genuinely sorry about bullying Natsuki. No one in her class bothered to visit Natsuki or check to see if she was ok. Asking for forgiveness isn't the same thing as sincerely apologizing and atoning. Even in the stinger, two bullies from the group were trying to pin responsibility on each other. When Natsuki deems people similar to the bully group worthless and detrimental to society in the confrontation, Haruto later asks the rhetorical question, "nobody gets to decide that they aren't worth anything, do they?", which...I guess is kind of a weird point? Confused


Last edited by horseradish on Mon May 04, 2020 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:28 am Reply with quote
Episode 7

Some creative animation, but sadly it was pretty ugly rather than being charming, especiailly Haruto which was an ugly/boring scarecrow that actually did nothing in the episode. I really could not get myself to care that much about the characters of the episode. How am I supposed to sympathise with the inhuman looking characters, jumping into traffic, and for the most part I don't think quite enough was conveyed. Like how they were drawn into this, but also into the reveal that apparently tinboy killed his friend, was he still a kid through it all and thus a kid was being put to death too. Was not really conveyed how he took a stance with his country other than filling in holes, like really vague. I nearly laughed when one of the characters was hit by a bus. There were a couple actually nice tonal shifts, like towards the end where the witch is angry, which perhaps used the art nicely, but a lot just looked silly.

I keep double guessing if I am being fair in review of this series, but what I can say that I did like the previous episode that felt very easy to empathise with, but this episode just felt like too much.
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horseradish



Joined: 27 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:40 pm Reply with quote
Episode 7

The animation was stilted sometimes, but I really liked the art. The first half of the episode looked like picture book illustrations. I didn't care for Haruto's scarecrow design, but I prefer Kanzaki's lion costume was fun. His mane appeared to be fabric cuts or construction paper and they even added a zipper and lion head logo on the back.

I'm puzzled about how Nene's dream (the sunny witch) reflects events leading to her coma. I think Nene had at least one childhood friend, possibly a wealthy transfer student. They created a fantasy world with each other where they could feel safe. The childhood friend promised to make the world a better place and Nene agreed to support them. However, something tragic beyond their control (innocent Kuro's death) occurred. The friend became withdrawn (return to Valanga) and pushed through their pain to strive toward achieving their dreams, where they could find more control and stability over their life (becoming king). They felt pressured to succeed in society (advisors' influence in Pot's fate) and were willing to use any means necessary and ended up hurting many people including Nene (tyrant rule). They lost their decent, compassionate side (killing Pot?). When Nene confronted them, she realized that everything had changed between them and that nothing could be the same anymore despite the friend trying to desperately reconnect (cat's cradle). The friend valued their dreams and accomplishments over their friendship and wanted to protect themselves in the end (Pol trying to stop Nene from destroying his kingdom). Nene then tries to destroy everything the friend worked so hard for, possibly hurting both (trying to blow up Valanga with both inside the bomb? The plan backfires (misfire) and the friend starts to feel regret (climbing out of crater and finding Pot's glasses), but it's too late because the friend dies (Pol's execution)? Nene wakes up saying she wants to see someone but starts crying because the friend is already gone? "And then there were none" because their special world is ruined and the friendship is destroyed? I think that's the gist???

The newspaper bunny who is later revealed to be a boy at the same hospital, throw different newspapers. The bunny in Nene's dream threw papers named after itself with a rabbit logo on the lower lefthand corner. Whereas the hospital boy threw papers with Nene's dream doll form as a logo on the lower righthand corner. Since Nene can neither see nor hear images in a coma, I think she possibly infiltrated the hospital boy's dreams and used him to communicate with the outside world.



Last edited by horseradish on Mon May 04, 2020 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:16 am Reply with quote
In regards to last week, I found the lion perfectly fine, but the scarecrow was just the worst, and I think kind of ruined the episode for me.

Episode 8

This episode though, it was another good one, well to a point. At first I will say that what might relate it to among the better episodes especially is that it is probably reasonably relatable. Not that I think a good majority of the viewers will personally relate to the witch specifically, the topic being deaf, but it is common enough that we could kind of put ourselves into her situation.

I will before go into what I think was the worst part of this episode, and I think might kind of be related to how it said she was "preachy", this felt a little preachy, but I think it was more of that it had a little bit of trouble properly conveying itself. It was too on the nose with placing the doctor in a bar of likely where the woman goes to, and spends way too much time talking and explaining things without I think putting trust in its visuals.

Not that its visual story telling was all bad, how it started the episode I think was actually pretty fantastic with what its central theme was, only it kind of went too far to explain it. First was that "band" deaf girl seems to almost be assaulting him with some sort of power coming out of her mouth, these mostly miss him before one seems to land inside like a wound, he takes it in and then sends his own back. And seems to go past and hits "soft" deaf girl, hitting her, where upon she sends bubbles back to him, but he puts his headphones on and avoids them, making her cry, what this all means is I think good story telling.

The first bit is I think it needs to be made clear is that both deaf girls were the same person, but her own admission I might almost call the "band" one as "bitching", that she explained she becomes that to kind of vent about her problems, the other one might be some amount of "caring". What actually seemed the case was that he came to her because of course he is going to those who want help, takes her hard words before it seems one actually hits or hurts him, so he fires back his own. Rather than hit her bitching side he instead gets her caring part, who then tries to help him with kind words, but refuses to listen to them. In essence, the episode kind of turned this around by saying that the deaf girl who feels the need to just vent is mentally healthier than he is, that Haruto is maybe flawed In ways because he is deciding to help others because he does not want to help himself. Kind of feels a bit Monogatari there.

There are other noteworthy parts, like I had to mention the art, which was especially great for the world of the bitching side of deaf girl. Mostly black and white in a way I think was meant to show that it is the part of her that wants to talk in blacks and white terms to complain about them (in her own mental health), because venting can be good, and I think might have supposed to be more artistic for the beauty. But it took me a little bit to see what was especially great when they kept swapping was to show that this is the same person, who is maybe more of a whole than we might think. I generally thought it was fascinating seeing the parts of her life. Maybe confusing for a moment when it looked like missed an evacuation before aliens attacked, but was instead symbolic of the anxiety she has about her disability, and makes what seems to be her getting a hearing dog that can help her be heartening.

But what I think generally was the best part of this episode was turning away from simply making her a damsel of her disability that needed to be saved by Haruto because of her disability. To her instead actually being quite functional in living her life, with just having some help in places where she might need it, including someone to hear her vent. Being a person with a disability, that is actually something good, sort of reminding me of Interviews With Monster Girls. The other positive I think was giving us a glimpse of Haruto's history, something I think should be done after he claimed amnesia and other episodes slipping in him saying things as if he does remember, where something like this should have been done first. It seems he was affected by people thinking him a drag, annoying, and disappointed in him, which I am going to guess made him very angsty.
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:17 pm Reply with quote
I would say that the biggest problem with 18if is that it is basically an anthology show so you never know what kind of episode you are going to get. Episodes 2, 3, 6, and 8 were good but the other episodes were average.

Episode 1 was an average episode to start the show on and I have no idea why they went with this as the first episode. Episode 2 was a gritty Judge Dredd approved episode and it really should have been the first episode of this show. The episode was fantastic and the ending was unexpected. Episode 3 was a tragic romance story and while those aren't my favorite it was a very well made episode. Episodes 4 and 5 were average. Episode 6 was a sad story about bullying but it had an optimistic heart. Episode 7 was average. Episode 8 was good and did some clever tricks with how it visually portrayed sounds.
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chaccide



Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 pm Reply with quote
This episode was just basically saying that we need to learn to listen in other ways so we can more fully appreciate all the colors around us.

I still can't believe so few people are watching the show. I know the episodes are uneven but the good episodes are so good it makes it worthwhile. I mean Space Dandy seriously had its ups and downs too and people loved that one, so why the overall feeling of disdain for this one?
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:34 pm Reply with quote
chaccide wrote:
I still can't believe so few people are watching the show. I know the episodes are uneven but the good episodes are so good it makes it worthwhile. I mean Space Dandy seriously had its ups and downs too and people loved that one, so why the overall feeling of disdain for this one?
I stopped watching 18if after the first episode and only started watching it again when I heard people talk about the second episode. They really put their worst foot forward with that first episode. Also so far there isn't anything connecting the different episodes together so it really does depend on the quality of the episode and whether you enjoy that genre.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:44 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 and chaccide

I have kind of felt like I have been rather critical of the series, but I am going to admit that I think episode 6 (otaku witch) and episode 8 (deaf witch) were episodes that were actually rather good. Now that we have a couple more people, I would kind of like your opinions on some of the other episodes, starting with the two Chrono1000 also liked, episode 2 (revenge witch) and episode 3 (first love witch)?

I admit that both of these had facets that could be good. Episode 3 a little more for me in how it used a different perspective while being pretty sweet, but as I said I thought it was a little confusing in how it telegraphed these changes in perspective, and really I can't quite remember what the lesson it was.

Episode 2 though, I thought it really muddied its message by making Haruto pretty much a murderer. It had an interesting theme where he might have been used to point out the hypocrisy of the witch in him showing the echoing of events (can I watch?). But in the end it felt like he was just used to empower a revenge fantasy, his character does not always feel consistent.
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:36 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I admit that both of these had facets that could be good. Episode 3 a little more for me in how it used a different perspective while being pretty sweet, but as I said I thought it was a little confusing in how it telegraphed these changes in perspective, and really I can't quite remember what the lesson it was.
The lesson for episode 3 was tragic romance. I prefer happy endings so I don't care much for the tragic romance genre but that episode did it very well. That it was made by a first time director is quite an accomplishment.

DuskyPredator wrote:
Episode 2 though, I thought it really muddied its message by making Haruto pretty much a murderer. It had an interesting theme where he might have been used to point out the hypocrisy of the witch in him showing the echoing of events (can I watch?). But in the end it felt like he was just used to empower a revenge fantasy, his character does not always feel consistent.
The three murderers were completely unrepentant about the murder of her family which they did for fun. As such I think the witch was justified in wanting them dead and the only issue was how she was going about it. Granted I believe some people are evil and when given the chance will go out of their way to commit evil which is why I like movies such as Dirty Harry, Judge Dredd, and Robocop.

As for Haruto his actions do vary a bit though he does seem to have strong moral convictions. Haruto always takes the side of the witch when he thinks she has been wronged though he does have compassion for the perpetrators when they have shown remorse for their actions. This show is definitely an anthology though and even the narrative style will change from episode to episode.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:33 pm Reply with quote
Episode 9

This episode was pretty... sexual. Is it surprising to have an episode with a lot of boobs? It was an idol, by which it is set inside the dream of a disgruntled idol who has worked hard, and is getting targeted by people that think she is being loose to get favours, or other impure aspects. Things like boobs, dicks, crotch fires, and the like, were kind of I think more used to set up this feeling of being uncomfortable in response to the weird expectations put on idols.

My response I think is kind of different, in that maybe it is part of a different culture. I kind of hate Japan's totally fake purity idol thing that it has. I don't know if is what is supposed to be taken away, but I think it just gets in the way of other artistic escapades. The general journey through the episode was in the witch showing the pain she goes through, before being faced with the same type of bullying she had a problem with in the first place., before she made a decision to start a solo career. So was the lesson that her staying with the pure idol thing was keeping her back? Because the conversation she had with Haruto seemed to turn into validating the things she went through as not being for her fans, but for herself in doing what she wanted to do. But I feel like that is having some weird assumptions, that she should have to deal with those sorts of things, like the harassment she got from producers.

I did not hate the episode, but really I kind of feel like this is the case that I cannot be a good a judge of it, whether the episode was exploitive or not. We do see quite a bit of pitched tents, which makes me wonder if this was being a bit on the other side, having a guy sporting a hard on while being tortured, and hanging out with his cat friend at the end.
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:21 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Things like boobs, dicks, crotch fires, and the like, were kind of I think more used to set up this feeling of being uncomfortable in response to the weird expectations put on idols.
I think that episode 9 was trying to be uncomfortable at times to reflect the problems in the idol industry. Idols are expected have an image of purity but at the same time are often taken advantage of by people in that industry. Of course any entertainment industry including Hollywood tends to have those problems. The only way you can get rid of those problems is to have impartial committees handle the hiring process with a combination of zero tolerance policies and easy reporting methods. Of course directors tend to dislike that but nothing will change in the entertainment industry unless the hiring process changes.
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horseradish



Joined: 27 Oct 2015
Posts: 574
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Episode 8
I liked the episode's theme about communication along with the message about how people could be more receptive and understanding toward themselves and others, especially those with depression or feel isolated in some way. The dark witch's world was in black and white outline and vaguely resembled an underwater coral reef.

It was interesting to feature a deaf character. She bought an expensive blu-ray set and couldn't even enjoy the dialogue since there were no captions or subtitles! Would be ironic if the Japanese release for this show didn't have captions.

Episode 9
Not sure if there was a proactive message. People should be treated with respect? Considering how problematic her fans (stalker) and upper management were (ugh), I doubt she could do anything to really change the industry on her own. Possibly that there's more than one way to achieve a dream and that you can always change your life and career trajectory? Pretty sure Misaki died at the end though.

Lily returned to make a slightly menacing appearance. I thought she was going to drag Haruto away from the witch's world and some serious overarching plot would be revealed, but it turned out to be a joke.

Chrono1000 wrote:
As for Haruto his actions do vary a bit though he does seem to have strong moral convictions. Haruto always takes the side of the witch when he thinks she has been wronged though he does have compassion for the perpetrators when they have shown remorse for their actions. This show is definitely an anthology though and even the narrative style will change from episode to episode.

I think that seems to be quite true. Haruto also seems easily influenced by the witches and their worlds. He takes on the role that the witches want from someone in their lives. The witch in episode 9 mentions how Haruto appears to be a prince-like figure for them.

chaccide wrote:
[...]
I still can't believe so few people are watching the show. I know the episodes are uneven but the good episodes are so good it makes it worthwhile. I mean Space Dandy seriously had its ups and downs too and people loved that one, so why the overall feeling of disdain for this one?

18if's been a bumpy ride.


Last edited by horseradish on Mon May 04, 2020 8:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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