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REVIEW: Tears to Tiara DVD part 2


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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:26 am Reply with quote
The main issue is that the last three episode really depart from the PS3 version, and that's where the story falls flat, as it lacks the corality of the game finale.
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maaya



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:19 am Reply with quote
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(Seriously, if they are going to use such a prominent name, they could at least be bothered to try to pronounce it right.)


won't you tell us which name you're talking about? The pronuciation of Arthur is supposedly based on the Welsh pronunciation of the name, if that's the one you mean.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:24 am Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
won't you tell us which name you're talking about? The pronuciation of Arthur is supposedly based on the Welsh pronunciation of the name, if that's the one you mean.


No, I'm referring to spoiler[Lucifer], which the seiyuu are consistently pronouncing with a hard C sound instead of the correct soft C sound. These episodes drop plenty enough hints to indicate that it is intended to be a reference to the most infamous entity with that name.
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vashfanatic
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:58 am Reply with quote
ximpalullaorg wrote:
The main issue is that the last three episode really depart from the PS3 version, and that's where the story falls flat, as it lacks the corality of the game finale.


"Corality"??? Is this an in-game term I don't know about?
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LKK



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:59 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
No, I'm referring to spoiler[Lucifer], which the seiyuu are consistently pronouncing with a hard C sound instead of the correct soft C sound. These episodes drop plenty enough hints to indicate that it is intended to be a reference to the most infamous entity with that name.

I had forgotten about that name. But now that you mention it, I remember twitching every time I heard it pronounced that way.
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maaya



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:20 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
No, I'm referring to spoiler[Lucifer], which the seiyuu are consistently pronouncing with a hard C sound instead of the correct soft C sound. These episodes drop plenty enough hints to indicate that it is intended to be a reference to the most infamous entity with that name.


Indeed. It's seems to be based on the Latin pronunciation, which would be spoiler["Lukifer"]. In Japan the english, french, italian, latin etc. pronunciations of the name seem to be commonly used. Eventhough the english one is probably the most common, the pronunciation used in Tears to Tiara is not their own invention and equally listed on wikipedia.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:21 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
Indeed. It's seems to be based on the Latin pronunciation, which would be spoiler["Lukifer"]. In Japan the english, french, italian, latin etc. pronunciations of the name seem to be commonly used. Eventhough the english one is probably the most common, the pronunciation used in Tears to Tiara is not their own invention and equally listed on wikipedia.


Okay, but still, that's not the way 99% of the world's population who is familiar with that name pronounces it. Why vary on this one when every other name used in the series which resembles a real-world, current-day name uses the common pronunciation?

Either this is a case of someone not doing their homework or of someone trying to get cute on technicalities.
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LKK



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:43 pm Reply with quote
That very well known name is probably common enough in Japan that it seldom occurs to them that English-speaking natives pronounce it differently. Just like how most Americans mispronounce many Japanese-import words.
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maaya



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Okay, but still, that's not the way 99% of the world's population who is familiar with that name pronounces it.


99% is a bit much. Every language pronounces the name differently and neither of these many pronunciations is used by 99% of the world's population, I suppose Anime hyper

They just happened to chose the latin pronounciation for this series, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted to stick to "original" pronunciations of the names. Same as with Arthur, where they chose welsh over the much more well known and commonly used english pronunciation (and they sound very different in japanese), and it is supposedly originally a welsh name.
And the other one is indeed originally latin. But that's just a guess. ^^

Quote:
That very well known name is probably common enough in Japan that it seldom occurs to them that English-speaking natives pronounce it differently.


It's more because in Japan especially with names that exist in several languages they often use several pronunciations based on those different languages, not only english. And they apparently often stick to the "original" one, as with names like "Rene" or "Noel", they usually use the French pronunciation (which was the reason that in Claymore all the english-speakers were unable to recognize Renee's name. And worse, they won't even believe you when you tell them xD I was happy that the official english translator did a goob job on this one.).
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 am Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
99% is a bit much. Every language pronounces the name differently and neither of these many pronunciations is used by 99% of the world's population, I suppose Anime hyper


Does "every language pronounce it differently?" I've heard the name spoken in several other languages (Spanish, French, German, and Italian, anyway), and never heard it spoken any other way than the way it is traditionally said in English. Sure, the accent of the particular language might give it a slightly different flavor, but not enough to change one of the basic syllable sounds.

Quote:
They just happened to chose the latin pronounciation for this series, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted to stick to "original" pronunciations of the names.


If you have a source for this, I'd like to see it. I've looked multiple places which trace the origin of the name in Latin back to a combination of spoiler[lux and ferre], which definitely wouldn't give it a hard C sound. In fact, I've found no indication that it was ever pronounced that way

Quote:
Same as with Arthur, where they chose welsh over the much more well known and commonly used english pronunciation (and they sound very different in japanese), and it is supposedly originally a welsh name.


Actually most likely Celtic, but close enough. I guess I'll have to go back and listen carefully for this, because if it was pronounced different then it didn't stick out to me as clearly as in the other case.

Really, though, all of this is pretty trivial - or would be, if I didn't already have a long-standing beef with the double-standard a lot of anime fans have for lambasting English VAs for mispronouncing Japanese names and terms but not giving seiyuu similar treatment when they mangle English names.


Last edited by Key on Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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bk



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:15 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
maaya wrote:
99% is a bit much. Every language pronounces the name differently and neither of these many pronunciations is used by 99% of the world's population, I suppose Anime hyper

Does "every language pronounce it differently?" I've heard the name spoken in several other languages (Spanish, French, German, and Italian, anyway), and never heard it spoken any other way than the way it is traditionally said in English. Sure, the accent of the particular language might give it a slightly different flavor, but not enough to change one of the basic syllable sounds.

Sorry, but are you serious? I've heard that name spoken differently even in German and it does have a really different pronounciation in English, not to mention French - and no, it's not just some accent ...

Quote:
Quote:
They just happened to chose the latin pronounciation for this series, for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted to stick to "original" pronunciations of the names.

If you have a source for this, I'd like to see it. I've looked multiple places which trace the origin of the name in Latin back to a combination of spoiler[lux and ferre], which definitely wouldn't give it a hard C sound. In fact, I've found no indication that it was ever pronounced that way

Do you know anything about Latin at all? Looking up what the word is composed of won't give you any information about how it is pronounced. There is indeed quite a disagreement whether you should pronounce a "c" in Latin as a "c" or as a "k" whenever it is followed by a vowel and if you look at south Germany or Italy or France, you'll find that they often speak it as a "k" ...

Long story short: maybe you just should accept that your own way of pronouncing things isn't the best and only way there is ...
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maaya



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:21 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Does "every language pronounce it differently?"


They are all different enough to turn into quite different spellings in the Japanese syllabic transcription for sure ^^

Quote:
If you have a source for this, I'd like to see it. I've looked multiple places which trace the origin of the name in Latin back to a combination of spoiler[lux and ferre], which definitely wouldn't give it a hard C sound.


A source for the latin pronunciation of the name you mean? "Lux" is pronounced as "Luks" (as in "looks") - the root being "Luk", and there you have the "K" sound, while followed by an "s"-sound in this case, it was dropped in other grammatical cases and also here when combining both words to form the name - therefore the spelling is also different.

- ‹C› and ‹K› both represent /k/
- ‹X› represented the consonant cluster /ks/

The rest you can check on wikipedia in detail ^^

And concerning Arthur, whether it sticks out or not depends on you (and your ears ^^ ), but they definitely use a different pronunciation from the standard english one (as it is transcribed in Japanese).

Quote:
Really, though, all of this is pretty trivial - or would be, if I didn't already have a long-standing beef with the double-standard a lot of anime fans have for lambasting English VAs for mispronouncing Japanese names and terms but not giving seiyuu similar treatment when they mangle English names.


Oh, I completely agree with that one. And I'm not trying to defend how Japanese don't even try to pronounce foreign names or words correctly. Just saying that in this case they are apparently not using the english pronunciation.
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:00 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:


"Corality"??? Is this an in-game term I don't know about?


Oh I'm sorry, it seems everyone assumes that posting here means you're a native English speaker...mistakes can happen. The point still stands though: the ending in the game was a group focused affair, while in the anime they threw everything out of the window.
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vashfanatic
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:02 pm Reply with quote
ximpalullaorg wrote:
vashfanatic wrote:


"Corality"??? Is this an in-game term I don't know about?


Oh I'm sorry, it seems everyone assumes that posting here means you're a native English speaker...mistakes can happen. The point still stands though: the ending in the game was a group focused affair, while in the anime they threw everything out of the window.

Well, we do assume you try using spell-check. Confused Thanks for the clarification! "Corality" would actually make an awesome word, though. Mind if I steal it? Very Happy
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maaya



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:12 pm Reply with quote
So what do you think about this? I hope you're not simply planning to ignore the explanation and leave the review as it is o_O;;
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