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Shelf Life - Apples and Oranges


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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1853
Location: In My Angry Center

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:48 pm Reply with quote
Quick question - Is there a limit as to how many photos we can send for Shelf Obsessed?
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6165
Location: IL

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Oh man. So your gripe about Gunslinger Girl is that it's creepy? Well yeah, it is. That's a part of the shock of Gunslinger Girl. It's also a satire at how far government organizations (such as the Social Welfare Agency) will go in order to accomplish their goals, even if it means using little girls who are terminally ill. But I guess if you only look at it on the surface as "this show has little girls, so it MUST be bait for pedophiles" then there isn't much you can do to change your mind I guess?

Oh well, at least this wasn't as bad that the review for the Teatrino OVA.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1820
Location: Tekkoshocon

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Gunslinger Girl is 10 kinds of awkward, but you're right about the amount of lolicon. It only exists because the characters are of that age.

I wonder if the times had something to do with that as well. Produce Gunsmith Cats in, say, 2008, and Rally's top would be practically non-existent after a fight.
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1853
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:10 pm Reply with quote
All this talk of Gunslinger Girl reminded me... Has anyone in here actually read the book Lolita?

:/ Exactly. Lolita is over 9000 different kinds of awkward and creepy. Yet if it lost it's single center point, it'd lose all 9000 of those psychological commentaries, and would effectively be a trash novel afterwards.
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1576
Location: Leiden, NL, EU

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Sorry about the mistake in the description of my shelves Anime smile + sweatdropSoraKake should of course have been TokiKake. Blame it on the picture on the DVD box.
And I forgot to put the R.O.D. The TV box back before taking the photos too Embarassed
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 650
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Hey Kimiko, which Haibane Renmei box set is that? Is it the thinpack?

Not that I'm such a huge geek for that show that I'd re-buy the whole thing for nicer packaging. No way. Totally not.

Gunslinger Girl is probably the most dissapointing anime I've seen (in fact I meant to send that in to Answerfans but I forgot). I totally agree with the flatness of the characters, but I was also annoyed that the girls didn't really act like children, which took all the drama out of the story. Every interesting question brought up by the scenario- how do you get someone that young to kill people? What sort of effect would that have on them mentally? How would it effect the adults responsible?- was explored at an extremely superficial level or simply glossed over.

For all that, I never really got a "creepy" vibe from it. True, there was no reason for Henrietta to be killing terrorists in a school uniform, but I'm a bit baffled by the frequent view that the series has lolicon elements.

Quote:

Oh well, at least this wasn't as bad that the review for the Teatrino OVA.


What do you think would have constituted a "good" review?


Last edited by Penguin_Factory on Mon May 24, 2010 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Ugh, Appleseed sounds quite average. I bought it blind awhile ago, but at least I got it good and cheap on DVD I suppose.

Initial D: Never really got the appeal of this. I'll probably try a few episodes once season one is redubbed, but I don't expect to be hooked for the long haul. Racing shows tend to not grab me with very limited exceptions (the most recent: the surprisingly enjoyable underdog Oban Star Racers).

You know, on Gunslinger Girl, fair enough. Mileage varies and the situation that the girls are in is rough stuff, so I can understand not liking it simply out of not wanting to be exposed to that. That said, isn't it inaccurate to associate the series with lolicon when, as you say, there's nothing sexual about it? My understanding was that this was an essential component of lolicon. Yet if we're intended to have empathy for the various characters and wish that they weren't in this situation, I think it logically follows that it isn't being fetishized. We're made to feel disturbed. At the most, I'd say there's shades of moe similar to, say, Air and Kanon with their portrayal of cute girls that you want to see comforted and so on. I get that, but from where I'm standing the show doesn't really even slightly overlap with the Strike Witches of the world.

An aside on the SF comment (why tear ducts remain): it's been awhile for me but my recollection is that they only make functional or necessary adjustments as needed. Of course, on our side of the 4th wall, you correctly note that removing the ability to cry or making the girls more like emotionless husks would be gratuitous and even unproductive to what the show was trying to do. If there's a huge theme to the series beyond simply feeling sorry for the girls' plight, it's probably that elements of their humanity manage to manifest themselves in spite of all of the horrific conditioning that they've been put through.
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1576
Location: Leiden, NL, EU

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:
Hey Kimiko, which Haibane Renmei box set is that? Is it the thinpack?

It's the thinpak boxset from MVM. Four thinpaked DVDs in a chipboard box. I bought it from Anime-On-Line.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6165
Location: IL

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:

Megiddo wrote:

Oh well, at least this wasn't as bad that the review for the Teatrino OVA.


What do you think would have constituted a "good" review?

For the Teatrino OVA? Well, focusing on the other 48 minutes instead of the whopping 7 seconds of Henrietta/Rico in their swimsuits, particularly when there's at least a full minute of shirtless Jean and Jose.

There is no reason to call Gunslinger Girl lolicon, unless you're using the vague definition that it has characters which are little girls. Since there is no pandering and no weird fanservice (unlike other truly creepy loli otaku bait shows), it shouldn't be dumped in with the likes of Strike Witches, Popotan, etc.

Particularly when the characters are quite fascinating. Not so much the girls, since they can be brainwashed and such, but just watch Jose or Hillshire throughout the series and see just how much of a toll their work for the Social Welfare Agency has taken on them. Franco and Franca are also particularly fun to watch. Ya don't get to see too many terrorists in anime after all.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:39 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:

For the Teatrino OVA? Well, focusing on the other 48 minutes instead of the whopping 7 seconds of Henrietta/Rico in their swimsuits, particularly when there's at least a full minute of shirtless Jean and Jose.


We should really be focused on the first series but I have to say that hey, she did do that. You can look it up. She spent 478 words talking about it (yes, I checked) and devoted one substantial paragraph to the beach episode. That occupies about a third of the brief review, so you really aren't being fair.


Last edited by GWOtaku on Mon May 24, 2010 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Reibooi



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:40 pm Reply with quote
I can understand people being creeped out by the concept of Gunslinger Girl. It's entirely understandable when you see what the girls have become and what they do it is rather unsettling.(seeing a little girl blow bad guys away without a second thought)

However to not like it because the characters are young and writing it off a Lolicon? That's just... I'm not even gonna say. The characters are never exploited in a sexual way. The relationships are more like brothers and sisters as opposed to anything else and it's just about them seeking approval none of that is sexual which is in addition to the age of a character what makes something Lolicon(that's just my opinion because everything with a young character cannot possibly be loli or else we would be watching nothing but such)
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3481
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In general, I tend to agree with Aristotle.

Well, doing such was all the rage before the Renaissance, though finding genuine Aristotelians is more difficult nowadays.

I am nonetheless hesitant to watch Appleseed, but only due to what I've seen of the character animation. The same applies to Freedom.
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Psycho 101
Thread KillerThread Killer


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 8345
Location: Afterlife VIP

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:10 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Quote:
In general, I tend to agree with Aristotle.

Well, doing such was all the rage before the Renaissance, though finding genuine Aristotelians is more difficult nowadays.

I am nonetheless hesitant to watch Appleseed, but only due to what I've seen of the character animation. The same applies to Freedom.

As clunky and bad as the movie may be it is still far better then the old OVA from the 80's That thing was just buried garbage gold. The second Appleseed movie honestly is much better I think in terms of smoother visuals (not so blocky and clunky) and a better plot with more character development. Plus the good part is you don't need to watch the first one to get the second. I'd say just watch that one and skip the first movie.
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yblees



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 165
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Particularly when the characters are quite fascinating. Not so much the girls, since they can be brainwashed and such, but just watch Jose or Hillshire throughout the series and see just how much of a toll their work for the Social Welfare Agency has taken on them. Franco and Franca are also particularly fun to watch. Ya don't get to see too many terrorists in anime after all.


I thought Gunslinger Girl Season 1 was fascinating (haven't gotten around to S2).
I agree with Megiddo that the girls are best regarded as simply part of the "situation" if you will.
Of much more interest are the reactions of the handlers/big brothers,
and the various ways the cope with having to mentor not-quite-human little girl assassins.
The way those guys deal with the situation, is essentially the way various viewers deal with the creepiness of GS.
Everything from fascination & fondness, to dislike, disregard and abandonment.
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Dakaran



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Gunslinger is an excellent piece of anime. Again, a review who feels the need to protects itself from public's opinions and the bangwagon of the cases put on the spotlight by the law. I won't read anymore reviews from ANN you guys if you keep that attitude and don't make true reviews. This is a disgrace to reviewers when you are biased in opinions and your review just shows it from the start. The worst is you share many anime I've got but can't neutraly describe Gunslinger.

/disappointed

-Dak


Last edited by Dakaran on Mon May 24, 2010 8:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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