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At first I thought the chick on the cover for Ladies versus Butlers was naked, but upon further inspection at CDJapan, she simply has a floral pattern bathing suit that is much, much too small for her large bosom.

Thank goodness she has that skimpy, little outfit that hardly covers anything on, I could've overheated if I found out she was naked. Crisis adverted.

Bakemonogatari in the end will average over probably average close to 80,000 sold per volume combined sales, maybe a little more depending on how the last volume does in the end. To put that in perspective, amongst TV series only EVA and the original MS Gundam have sold more per volume, though they've both had multiple re-releases to help inflate their numbers.

K-ON!! did a better than I expected for BD. I'd said I expected it would easily pass 20,000 combined sales, and it did, very easily. About 29000 BD/4000 DVD. The first season was the highest weighted towards BD I'd seen at the time, and the second season even more so. I've never seen a higher ratio (close to 90%) of BD to DVD sales. If it maintains these numbers, it'll sell less than the first season per volume (maybe 75-80% of first season numbers), but more volumes to sell.

Well, I'm thankful to see the Time of Eve movie sold more copies than Ladies vs Butlers, cause it would have been quite depressing if it was the other way around.

Anyway, I knew those people stating the death of K-ON!! were full of it. The sales of the Live K-ON Concert on BluRay just a few weeks back already had proved that the audience was itching for more K-ON. Although would it kill them if they actually you know, had music in the show every now and then?

Usually I'm not jealous of the Japanese fans but I really want that Time of Eve BD right now.

The record setting BD sales of Bakemonogatari clearly shows that anime fans haven't gotten the memo yet that the anime industry is dieing out Wink

As long as there are lolis and bandaids covering private parts, otaku will buy them. As a 100% otaku pandering show, Bakemono succeeded immensely..

Megiddo wrote:

Well, I'm thankful to see the Time of Eve movie sold more copies than Ladies vs Butlers, cause it would have been quite depressing if it was the other way around.

Anyway, I knew those people stating the death of K-ON!! were full of it. The sales of the Live K-ON Concert on BluRay just a few weeks back already had proved that the audience was itching for more K-ON. Although would it kill them if they actually you know, had music in the show every now and then?

You honestly believed K-ON was going to die out like a candle in the wind? K-ON is only getting STRONGER now that people know it might be coming to an end.

Megiddo wrote:

As long as there are lolis and bandaids covering private parts, otaku will buy them. As a 100% otaku pandering show, Bakemono succeeded immensely..

Since you've so clearly established that Bakemonogatari is a "100% otaku pandering show" and pandering is a very bad thing, just what percentage of pandering is K-ON at? Who do you think is buying K-ON if not otaku? Middle-aged housewives? Why don't other shows with far higher levels of fan service and pandering of all sorts sell more than a small fraction of what Bakemonogatari does? Because you've been grinding that axe for so long that it must be nearly worn away by now. Your argument is as flimsy as arguing that since EVA and Gundam are the best selling shows ever, otaku will buy any show with giant robots in it.

The answer is quite simple.

There is no scene where Azusa, Yui, or Mio's private parts are covered up solely by a band-aid.

In other words, there's no loli fanservice. It's just moe on its own. And while moe on its own sells quite well (as the near 30k BDs sold for K-ON!! vol 1 attests), it doesn't sell quite as much as loli fanservice.

EDIT: Though I never see where I said that pandering was bad, just that Bakemonogatari was a pure otaku pandering show, which I think you would agree with, right? Just like K-ON!! is a pure otaku pandering show. Bakemono just succeeded more by including the loli fanservice.

Megiddo wrote:

The answer is quite simple.

It's simply wrong.

Quote:

There is no scene where Azusa, Yui, or Mio's private parts are covered up solely by a band-aid.

You're answering a question that wasn't asked. I asked why other shows with far higher levels of fan-service and pandering don't have anything like Bakemonogatari's success, since you claim that's all that's needed for success. You keep harping on *1 or 2 frames* of animation in the final episode of a 15 episode show, when the show sold at this level right from the first volume, long before the last episode was even done. But let's say you're right. Kanokon had that same bandaid thing on a loli character, but for a lot more than 2 frames. So it sold... less than a tenth of what Bakemonogatari does.

Quote:

In other words, there's no loli fanservice. It's just moe on its own. And while moe on its own sells quite well (as the near 30k BDs sold for K-ON!! vol 1 attests), it doesn't sell quite as much as loli fanservice.

Definitely, I mean look at Dance in the Vampire Bund. Same studio, same director as Bakemonogatari, plenty of loli fanservice, and... it bombed. A bit more than 1000 per volume. What happened?

Quote:

EDIT: Though I never see where I said that pandering was bad, just that Bakemonogatari was a pure otaku pandering show, which I think you would agree with, right? Just like K-ON!! is a pure otaku pandering show. Bakemono just succeeded more by including the loli fanservice.

You're certainly didn't phrase it in a way that would lead anyone to believe you thought it was anything but a bad thing. And no, I wouldn't agree, for either Bakemonogatari or K-ON; in terms of pandering I think they're both beaten out by Strike Witches.

Your argument that Bakemonogatari's success is attributable to loli fanservice is weak at best, and it certainly doesn't seem to work its magic for other shows.

Well, then why do you think Bakemono was successful? For people who say it was for the sarcastic/intelligent conversations, well those sarcastic/intelligent conversations can be found as well in Katanagatari (the same author wrote them after all). And how many BDs has Katanagatari sold? Not too much from what I remember of these rankings charts. So people obviously don't really care too much of the witty remarks and that.

And don't think Shinobu was the only loli in Bakemono. From the 3rd episode you had Mayoi, who Araragi molests not just once, but twice. Then of course you have Nadeko with the whole swimsuit and then the taking off the swimsuit and then the bondage marks. So that makes 3 lolita characters (balanced by the 3 non lolita Hitagi, Suruga, and Tsubasa). So then what was it? It obviously wasn't SHAFT because as you said Vampire Bund didn't sell worth crap.

But then, was Vampire Bund a harem? I didn't really watch past the first episode to see. It didn't look like it at least. And I'm pretty sure Strike Witches isn't a harem either (is there even a male character in the show?). So in the end that leaves Kanokon, which had some pretty poor production values and I'm pretty sure just 2 characters after the little shouta boy (and honestly, what otaku wants to put himself in a story as a shouta boy? That's usually for fangirls and it was really off-putting in the show).

So maybe the real success of Bakemono is that it's a supernatural harem with a balance mix of lolis and non-lolis. Who knows though. I would have thought Katanagatari would have sold a heck of a lot better than it did considering the fanbase Bakemono has.

Megiddo wrote:

Katanagatari (the same author wrote them after all). And how many BDs has Katanagatari sold? Not too much from what I remember of these rankings charts. So people obviously don't really care too much of the witty remarks and that.

I think you're mixing apples and oranges. Katanagatari was considered Nisiosin's weakest work long before it was made into an anime. If you look on Amazon.co.jp, most volumes of the light novel get around 3 star ratings, so it's not exactly surprising that it hasn't been a smash hit. Averaging around 8000 combined sales per volume, I'd say it's a modest success.

As for why Bakemonogatari is such a success, I don't know. If it was as easy to figure out as that there wouldn't be so many bombs out there. But to try to reduce it to a single factor is I think a fruitless quest.

Megiddo wrote:

Bakemono just succeeded more by including the loli fanservice.

It's nowhere that simple. The thing is that Shinbo x SHAFT was a mega success waiting to happen, and it just took a particular combination of elements (particularly the witty wordplay) to do the trick.

Bakemonogatari had all kinds of pre-release momentum going for it. The "genius" of Shinbo had been hyped time and again (really dominating 2ch in many ways; however, Shinbo had primarily worked on parody/reference shows, which mainly attract the most hardcore and knowledgeable of otaku), so it was only a matter of time before they landed on something that caught everyone's attention. Enter the "genius" of Nisio Isin, and they now had a series that any otaku would have to buy into.

OTOH, KyoAni already made the giant waves with Haruhi, so in terms of word of mouth excitement, K-ON! was less newsworthy. I'm not saying that loli fanservice didn't help Bakemonogatari, but it's unlikely that K-ON! would've enjoyed the same success even with that service.

I'd also predict that it's unlikely for a future Shinbo x SHAFT show to create the same splash if it relies on a similar formula.

Last edited by egoist on Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

The King of Harts wrote:

At first I thought the chick on the cover for Ladies versus Butlers was naked, but upon further inspection at CDJapan, she simply has a floral pattern bathing suit that is much, much too small for her large bosom.

That's exactly what I thought but I realized those were flowers without checking another site. But, yeah, they got us. Time for revenge! Wink

can someone post the link for blu-ray ranking on oricon?
I can't find it

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