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Hey, Answerman! - Dub Steps


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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:23 pm Reply with quote
On the subject of official subtitles.... I still don't get why TAN insists on using those piss colored subs. No matter how "Good" their translation is, fansubs will still be better because the text isn't painful on the eyes.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12680

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:45 pm Reply with quote
Not sure where you pre-ordered Samurai Pizza Cats when they just announced it...
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Is anime relegated to Adult Swim and other late-night slots on small cable networks, never to appear on a network with a bigger viewerships, and is this further confirmation that anime on TV is doomed to obscurity?


Unless you want more dubs like Naruto Shippuden's, or worse yet, 4Kids and Nelvana's stuff, then I'm afraid so. It's come to the point where I can't think of a single anime currently airing in Japan that wouldn't get the exacto knife taken to it if it wanted to air on American television outside the Adult Swim line-up.

And, yeah, the whole "networks don't own anime, the licensing companies do" so Cartoon Network makes much more money off their own franchises like Ben 10 than they would off Naruto or One Piece.

As for official subtitles.. that's another sticky mess. Let's offer an analogy to the professionalism comment. Viz is a professional company, but anyone who reads their Naruto or Pokemon manga translations can tell you it's not accurate.

Fanscans/subs benefit in the fact they don't have to worry about making a profit or anything, so the temptation to dumb something down, or edit something, isn't there for them like a professional company of "Well, if we change this, more people might not be intimidated by it and want to try it out which yields more profit." While making money is understandable, the bad thing about official translations is there's only one of them. Don't like TAN using edited dub names and scripts for Persona 4? Too bad, it's all you're getting. Meanwhile, with fansubs, if you find a bad sub, you can just try another group until you find one you like, with no real obligations like official companies to either make a profit, or worse, get bound by other companies to use certain translations or name changes.

But overall, it depends on what you view as a 'good' translation. Me, I find it extremely distracting when they do something as simple as reverse the name order in subs (Ren Suzugamori instead of Suzugamori Ren, for example), since what we hear is the opposite, and it's distracting. To say nothing of localizing like adding in slang like "dude" or "bro", or full on line changes. Some people don't mind that, but other's do.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4249

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:24 am Reply with quote
I really have to disagree with you on the Redline dub, because I liked it a lot. You really did not watch the dub, fully, because what I took from it was that all the actors were totally loving their lines and characters. I cannot imagine, at all, how you got the idea that it was lifeless. That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard you say in this column.
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Red Fox of Fire



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:33 am Reply with quote
Lol @ sub-elitist rant. Was that really even worth putting in here? I've seen that same shit a thousand times. It's all just people who fap to anything Japanese and don't actually know what they're talking about.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4249

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:35 am Reply with quote
Red Fox of Fire wrote:
Lol @ sub-elitist rant. Was that really even worth putting in here? I've seen that same shit a thousand times. It's all just people who fap to anything Japanese and don't actually know what they're talking about.


I'm pretty sure he put it in there so he could tear apart its arguments.

Or it was a slow-news day, and everyone knows how taking about controversial subjects (like dubs) brings traffic in like nothing else.
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CG-LOVER



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 355
Location: East Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:54 am Reply with quote
Man, if the Answerman doesn't like The Big Bang Theory then we clearly have different tastes in comedy. And I REALLY wouldn't say avant-garde is the best word to describe Tim & Eric. I'd say the word moronic is much more fitting.

But to be on the topic of anime, I guess the only parady dub that I've really even seen is Ghost Stories. And yes, maybe it is true that the jokes tend to get a bit old over time.

Moving on, why do the people at ANN seem to hate the Redline dub so much? Am I the only one who doesn't think it's as flat as they claim it is? Honestly, it seems pretty competent to me. I mean the dub still managed to engage me, regardless of what the Answerman said. And btw Answerman, you shouldn't make sweeping generalizations like "that dub isn't going to engage anyone". I mean, aren't you only basing that off of your opinion (and maybe Zac's I guess)? Unless you're really arrogant enough to think that everyone else out there always agrees with your opinion of something, I'd abstain from making statements like that in the future.

Regarding the Answerfans question, I guess if I'm only picking one title I should pick the most non-mainstream title that I've seen and would have only discovered it through fansubs. That for me would be the movie Cencoroll. You know, when I think about it I don't even remember how I found out about this movie in the first place. It was kind of forgettable really.
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:07 am Reply with quote
How about shows that were super-mainstream in Japan, but could only be discovered via fansub by English speakers? I found Precure through fansubs. The same goes for Doremi (although most episodes were raws.)

Actually, thinking back, fansubs were my first exposure to magical girl anime period. We didn't have Cartoon Network, so I didn't see Sailor Moon on TV. My first episode was a fansub of SuperS 152. I'd only seen Pokemon, Ranma, and some Ghibli before that.
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tangytangerine



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:25 am Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
On the subject of official subtitles.... I still don't get why TAN insists on using those piss colored subs. No matter how "Good" their translation is, fansubs will still be better because the text isn't painful on the eyes.


It's because it's one of the standard subtitle sets used. ADV/Section 23 has been using that subtitle font & color ever since they started releasing dvds. The only difference between then & now is that the font size has shrunken a little(although I think the HD aspect ratio might be involved with that).

Changing it would require time & money to alter it, which is not something they'd probably want to spend on.
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Ted_the_bear2001



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:30 am Reply with quote
Quote:
the only one that I'd consider an unqualified success would be Samurai Pizza Cats.


I wouldn't think of it as a "success", unless if there was a slew of fans of that show in the 90s who would be willing to buy the dvd.

About parody dubs, I feel that many companies are doing specifically for the edginess. Shin Chan is an example when it aired on Adult Swim. You knew that the animation mixed with pop culture humor would be the perfect mix for that crowd. Did Shin Chan do well on that channel?

And you can't forget what ADV try to do with Super Milk Chan, which just screams out "This is for Adult Swim and Adult Swim only."
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The Black Stones



Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:01 am Reply with quote
Chalk up another person baffled by the bashing of Redline's dub, I thought it was really good, and I'm really surprised that people are saying it's a bad dub. I could accept someone saying mediocre, but bad? I don't see it.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 964

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:07 am Reply with quote
Quote:
But let's talk about the dub thing, because I can agree with that. A bad dub does NO ONE any favors. For example: the dub of Redline is so flat and dull, it's basically a travesty. How a movie that ebullient and energetic could inspire a dub so listless and lifeless is completely insane. Plus, that movie had a real shot at launching itself above and beyond the core group of us hardcore anime fans and into the eyeballs of curious bystanders! But with a bad dub, that's just not really an option. Just go ahead and consider that outside audience a non-issue, because that dub isn't going to engage anyone.

Okay, that's it. I'm just... I'm done. With all due respect Brian, I'm just... done! Forget for one minute about 4Kids, Nelvana, Steve Foster, and parody dubs. I have no f****** idea what it could possibly take for a dub to impress anyone anymore. It's like a scenario where a teenage daughter is introducing her boyfriend, who's as far as teenager go is well-mannered, dresses appropriately enough and is employed to her parents and the parents are finding any possible loop-hole that would give them a reason to forbid the boy and their daughter from being together.

Like what the hell could it take to make a dub acceptable to any of you people? I know not all dubs are great and have flaws for whatever reason or another. And I know everyone is entitled to their opinions and all, but... there must be something subtitle and specific about the majority of dubs these days that is turning off so many fans that I'm just somehow in the dark about.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:24 am Reply with quote
Ojamajo LimePie wrote:
How about shows that were super-mainstream in Japan, but could only be discovered via fansub by English speakers? I found Precure through fansubs. The same goes for Doremi (although most episodes were raws.)

Actually, thinking back, fansubs were my first exposure to magical girl anime period. We didn't have Cartoon Network, so I didn't see Sailor Moon on TV. My first episode was a fansub of SuperS 152. I'd only seen Pokemon, Ranma, and some Ghibli before that.


My first thought was Bakemonogatari but the Precure series is a perfect example. Something like this has to be grabbed day 1 for it to make sense in the long run. Though I remember Tokyo Mew Mew might've gotten a license and dub, IIRC. Then again that was only a 12 or 24 episode show.

Yes as long as CR can continue to improve their service and constantly add more to their lineup, people will find CR a better place to watch anime than fansubs, and not just for the reason of "supporting the industry." This is the only real way of any reasonable attempt at getting rid of fansubs, anything heavy handed will just fail.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:40 am Reply with quote
Asterisk-CGY wrote:
Though I remember Tokyo Mew Mew might've gotten a license and dub, IIRC. Then again that was only a 12 or 24 episode show.


Tokyo Mew Mew is 52 episodes. 4Kids only dubbed 26 though, because they couldn't find a toy company who wants to touch an action oriented show starring females so with no toys to make the series profitable, 4Kids had to put it down halfway through.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:45 am Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
On the subject of official subtitles.... I still don't get why TAN insists on using those piss colored subs. No matter how "Good" their translation is, fansubs will still be better because the text isn't painful on the eyes.


Its a readable color, that's the only real point. Though folks could go to white with a black border these days.
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