Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Dub Steps
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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Since ArsenicSteel pretty much covered the pachinko thing perfectly.. (and 4+ pages is enough on the subject)
Sounds awful. I hope they didn't use bad 4chan or Imgur/Tumblr memes, that would kill my interest in the series instantly.
Here's the thing. I'm watching a Japanese cartoon made by Japanese people for Japanese people. When I start seeing subs or hearing dubs that make the characters sound like they're American, something is wrong. Japanese high school students suddenly saying "Dude, that was a sick kegger last night, see you later bro on Xbox live where we can wtfpwn some n00bs" and other stereotypical American teen dialog would be terrible, because I know Japanese teens don't talk that way. It'd be like editing out every scene of characters coming home, taking off their shoes, then putting on special home shoes, because Americans don't do that, so it's better to cut it out in case Americans get confused by this practice. It's basically culture whitewashing at this point. If I understand your side of the argument, if they reference some popular J-Pop singer like Crystal Kay or Garnet Crow, you want them to change those names to "Britney Spears" and "Ke$ha" in order to convey the meaning that "these are popular pop singers" since they might not know who Crystal Kay or Garnet Crow are? Sorry, but that's not what I consider an accurate or good translation, that would be horrifying, and brings back images of the bad dub era of the 90s and what 4Kids and similar dubbing companies do. That's pretty much Americanization/whitewashing at that point, not translating. It seems perfectly reasonable a Japanese show would reference Japanese holidays, singers, websites, and etcetetra. If you really feel the need to, throw up a translation note that (2ch is huge Japanese image board) or (NicoNicoDouga is a popular video sharing website) or something. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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More TitanXL drivel. The only thing I find horrifying is your ridiculous views. Again, thank God nobody of your ilk actually ever gets hired in an entertainment job. Dubs would be absolute shit if people like you ever got your way, which luckily, will never happen. Yours is the kind of approach that would attempt to translate Japanese wordplay literally even though it would make absolutely no sense in English.
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I'm somewhere in middle ground here or perhaps just muddled... To use some recent offhand examples I saw in dubs, there is a moment in Ef a Tale of Memories where Renji uses this Japanese idiom about swallowing "person" or something like that, which didn't make a lot of sense to me but the translator note kind of explained it. I thought the use of an English idiom was entirely appropriate in that context.
But when it comes to replacing pop culture references in Japanese media with corresponding pop culture references I think part of the interest I have in watching anime is to actually find out something about Japan so I would prefer this not be done unless it's just an extremely difficult think to look-up/explain/etc. Then again, I am a true believer in dubs from Funimation for DBZ (YYH was also much better in English IMO) and such because I just didn't like the original casting at all and I know they "screwed it up" for people who really liked the original Japanese. I'm sure they probably did all kinds of things I'm saying I don't like and I probably don't care to know now in large part because I didn't really care back then about this issue. In any case, I'm torn on this, because I can understand both sides to a degree. |
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Apollo-kun
 Posts: 1213 Location: City 7, Macross 7 |
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To the guy who sent the subtitle rant, and pretty much anybody who complains about legal English Sub tracks:
Are you Japanese? No, I'm going to guess you're not. So what the flipping heck does it matter to you if there's something that happens to not be "100% accurate" to the original Japanese version of the audio? Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it was being altered to make more sense to you? Seriously, would you rather bask in foreign quirk and culture and act pretentious about something you don't fully understand, or would you rather something be changed a tad bit for you to get what's going on? I try not to engage in rants, but I can't help it this time. People who get off from abstaining from legal methods of buying anime because something isn't 100% Japanese grind my gears much like members of the Tea Party "Movement" do. Their unwillingness to accept common sense puzzles me. Here we are, living in a time when the anime industry is recovering from a giant downward spike in profit and is just starting to get it's footing again after floundering for a few years, and people have the sheer gall to not show support for wonderful companies like FUNimation, Sentai and Discotek because why? "Oh, this honorific was dropped!", or, "Oh, he said 'tree' instead of 'magnolia tree'!". Big deal. Here's what it really boils down to: do you know the story? Do you understand the characters, their names, and their personalities? Do you know where the story is set, why it's set there, and why the cast does what they do? Are you aware of sub-plots, character dynamics and what's going on overall? If you are, then congratulations, you're reading a good sub track. As a writer, I can tell you that these are the important things. Not idiotic little details like honorifics. In fact, if you need an honorific to understand a character's interactions with another character, that's poor writing, because you should be aware of their dynamics through the dialogue itself. Or perhaps it's not the dialogue, and the viewer needs to actually pay more attention. A crazy concept, I know! Stop blaming "inaccurate" subbing on your unwillingness to support your fandom monetarily. If you're a cheapskate who could save money to buy anime but just wants to get it free, own up to it and be honest. When so many companies are trying to make greedy fans like you happy, slapping them in the face with half-hearted arguments is insulting and shows how much you really care about this industry. |
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ShinnFlowen
 Posts: 141 |
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You said exactly what answerman said in his post with a bit more detail  . The only flaw with your little essay is that no one was encouraging piracy I believe and a lot of purists people were not saying they want subtitles rather they want their dub to incorporate the Japanse translation which I know is silly as your limiting your target audience to a really small group.
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superdry
 Posts: 1309 |
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The first time was done in context because anyone who doesn't know the meme proabably would have been puzzled with the direct translation. The second time...it could have been kept due to context of the scene.
It could have been easy to note that said memes are Japanese in nature. I'm fine with that actually...little TL blurbs. There is a delicate balance to translation and localization. I prefer non-over-localized translations myself, but I'm not going to rage if something is a little localized here and there. |
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Apollo-kun
Posts: 1213 Location: City 7, Macross 7 |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I think that you are right about that. This started with somebody using "bad" dubs to justify fan subs, but the posts here soon started to attack "professional translations" without distinguishing between dubs and subtitles. At lest that is how it seems to me. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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I definatley find him more and more disturbing with each day. If it involves the west in any way, shape or form he'll immediately think the worst of it. ...I honestly have to question his credentials as well. I can't imagine anyone hiring a guy with such low-esteem for a culture and language...or hell, why he would even be interested in translating at all. |
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Looneygamemaster
 Posts: 192 |
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On a different subject...
I don't like gag dubs. Maybe I'm too rigid in my views, but a dub should at least try to represent the show. Dubs like Sergeant Frog don't. As for the question, I've sworn off of fansubs, but they were how I got into Touch and Space Battleship Yamato. The latter, in turn, got me interested in the works of Leiji Matsumoto. So there's at least one good thing. 
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Joke's on you then I guess, since people like me do exist out there in the industry. Look at Sket Dance's official subtitles. There's Japanese wordplay and all. Not every professional company is a 4Kids/Funimation who localize the heck out of everything, you know. Some companies are better than others. And CR apparently realizes changing Yukichi to Franklin to call a 100 note of currency would sound awkward since this takes place in Japan. Course the problem with CR is they have multiple teams. Some of their stuff is good.. others not so much. So it's a luck of the draw if one of their good teams works on a show or not. |
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superdry
Posts: 1309 |
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It's made to make sense to people who might not have a grasp of a foreign culture. That's fine. Sometimes it works to change things in context, other time it's fine to leave it as is and give a TL note.
Localizing something is fine. Over-localizing is bad though or changing things because the editor thought they were being cute. Katanagatari is a good example with Kleisha Bringers - make something really simple into something even more obscure.
That example is a good one to show when not to over-localize. I can see a lot of people going WTF if things were changed. The TL note made sense and everything was probably in context. I think, for some bizarre reason, the editor or translate (don't know) decided to use dollars instead of yen in the US K-On! release. That's a small blip, but a wtf. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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I should point out that I'm one of those people who also likes as much left in as possible, assuming that the resulting translation is still coherent. It's just that I don't lose my shit over localization and I understand (as does any good translator) that translating an experience trumps a literal translation. If there's a joke that will get a big laugh from a Japanese audience then a good translator will at least attempt to make sure the non-Japanese audience gets a big laugh at the same spot. If that means coming up with something that isn't a literal transcription of the original translation than so be it. All non-retards get this.
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Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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The only thing bizarre is your statement that it is bizarre. In most situations the most important thing is for the viewer to understand the value of an item. In K-On! the main point is how expensive a guitar is. The type of currency is not important to anything except getting the viewer to understand the price. The original anime used yen because it was made in Japan for Japanese viewers. The North American release used dollars because it was made in North America for North American viewers. What is bizarre about that? I admit that the value of the item is changed because the exchange rate is not really 100 to 1, which is generally used, but it is close enough to get the meaning across. |
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Scaramanga
Posts: 134 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Now it seems like we're getting into the much more reasonable territory of "this is my opinion of how I like things to be translated" as opposed to the "the translation/translator is a failure if they do not exactly transliterate everything, all the time!" side of things.
Here's the thing, I'm perfectly fine with a middle-of-the-road approach to translation. It makes as much sense to have some localization to bring in people who aren't hardcore Japanophiles, as it does to leave in some interesting cultural references, especially if they are integral to the plot (keyword INTEGRAL here kids.) Yes there are shows that egregiously violate this, but come on, such shows are pretty few and far between. And since sublety doesn't seem to work with some of you (I'm looking at YOU TitalXL): you are not the arbiters of what and how things should be translated. The companies that are licensees are.
But not enough for you, so I'm just wondering, why don't YOU get a job in the "industry"? I mean you are obviously an expert in Japanese language and culture as well as possessing a thorough business acumen. |
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