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Lupin III - The Woman Called Fujiko Mine (TV).


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DerekTheRed
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:15 am Reply with quote
Heh, more Castle of Cagliostro homage. I like this show, but I'm starting to miss Goemon. It's got to be his turn next.
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Surrender Artist
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:34 am Reply with quote
I did not expect episode six to have schoolgirl lesbians spoiler[with machine guns] and a spoiler['trap']. This show just has everything.

Oscar is confusing me and unsettling me. I had thought that his disdain for Fujiko was because he saw her as a threat to his relationship with Inspector Zenigata, even though the Inspector does not see or acknowledge the relationship that Oscar seems to want. After this, however, I'm completely at a loss.

There was disconcerting intensity to the lesbian 'affection' in this episode. The content of the episode becomes more interesting when one consider, as Ben Ettinger (who seems not to care for the series) points out, the series director, series writer as well as the writer of this episode and the episode director were all women. So perhaps the intent was to subvert a common male fantasy by making it feel uncomfortable and absurd.

This episode kept me interested and often entertained by its excess, but I think that I might be intrigued by it more than I like it.

Episode seven was a more accessible. It was talky, but I like talky stuff better than most. I found the switching among time periods a little confusing, but it was an entertaining story and a sly, satirical dig at the cold war and points beyond. The idolization of the ersatz Castro alongside the escalating absurdity of the USSR and USA knock-offs with silly names made for a wry, amusing story. I'm sure that there's at least one good Doctor Strangelove or How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb reference in there if I look closely enough. It sure as Hell wouldn't've been out of place for somebody to yet, "you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I wish that Goemon's part had been larger. He came in to give us a damned cool climax, but this was mostly the Fujiko and Philadel (phia?) show. The way that Fujiko treats Goemon is interesting. She treats Lupin as a sort of rival and Jigen with a kind of disdain, but she comes close to affection with Goemon, almost treating him as a naïve kid that she doesn't quite take seriously.

I feel like this series must be going somewhere. I doubt that they're puttering around with those surreal flashbacks and the images of a young Fujiko in the ending for nothing. I hope that it starts heading there soon.

DerekTheRed wrote:
I had an idea for the climax of this show in the shower just now...

Spoilers apply if this show is your only taste of Lupin.
spoiler[Oscar is the odd man out. He isn't in any later shows so I think unless they intend to re-boot the franchise with new characters, he has to go at some point. So I think this series will see the four main crew mostly antagonizing each other, and then towards the end, they will realize that they need to team up and use their combined skills to escape. And they will be escaping from Oscar, who is secretly really, really evil. Or he's a mystical type, like Pycal(?) was in the first season. He'll be so evil that Zenigata will aide the 4 as well, at which point he will come to like them, if only secretly, and he will loose his murderous rage and adopt the personality that we're familiar with.]

What do you think? Possible?


It's an interesting theory, but feels almost too straightforward for a series that like to play around as much as this. Still, I think that you're on to something having the finale and the lasting changes that it might bring hinge on Oscar. It would seem a waste to create such a striking character without a purpose. I could imagine him ultimately trying to kill (or worse) Fujiko, leading to some sort of event that might change her relationship with Lupin et al and perhaps exorcizing some of the ruthless quality that she's shown in this series. I also wouldn't be surprised if they threw something really weird on, liking having him turn out to be Fujiko's brother, which would add all sorts of terrifying implications to a certain scene in episode six.

Botan24 wrote:
One more quick note: after Fujiko compliments "Isolde's" hair and then touches her face...I got the distinct impression that Fujiko would eat her alive (in the metaphorical sense not literally). Very creepy, but interesting how that supposedly sweet scene didn't give me that impression.


There is something malevolent about this iteration of Fujiko. I suspect that her exaggerated sexual exhibitionism might be part of a power fantasy and an act of aggression for her. When I consider that women play such large, leading roles in this production, I keep wondering what their motives with the rampant nudity are. Barring some sort of massive 'false consciousness' problem, which is an interesting allegation that I worry carries too much presumption, it's either a massively cynical play for attention from the male audience or has some narrative purpose. A theme that has come up when distinguishing typical fanservice from the nudity in this is that Fujiko is in control of it. While I expect that to be true, perhaps how she exercises that control is meant to be a bad thing.
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Botan24



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
Botan24 wrote:
One more quick note: after Fujiko compliments "Isolde's" hair and then touches her face...I got the distinct impression that Fujiko would eat her alive (in the metaphorical sense not literally). Very creepy, but interesting how that supposedly sweet scene didn't give me that impression.


There is something malevolent about this iteration of Fujiko. I suspect that her exaggerated sexual exhibitionism might be part of a power fantasy and an act of aggression for her. When I consider that women play such large, leading roles in this production, I keep wondering what their motives with the rampant nudity are. Barring some sort of massive 'false consciousness' problem, which is an interesting allegation that I worry carries too much presumption, it's either a massively cynical play for attention from the male audience or has some narrative purpose. A theme that has come up when distinguishing typical fanservice from the nudity in this is that Fujiko is in control of it. While I expect that to be true, perhaps how she exercises that control is meant to be a bad thing.


Ever heard the saying "Women are the downfall of men"? (although it would apply to women and men here, after episode six) I love that saying because it is so true. Fujiko uses her sexuality as a weapon. It is her best and most lethal asset. Look at spoiler[how she got into Zenigata's pants, and recorded their love making.] That is extremely crafty and shows how she is truly in control of her body. I believe that is what the women involved in this show are trying to illustrate. Besides, a naked woman can be very alluring, sexy, and quite beautiful. So perhaps there's a little fanservice aspect as well, but that's not the prime intent.
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jsc315



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:40 am Reply with quote
Botan24 wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:
Botan24 wrote:
One more quick note: after Fujiko compliments "Isolde's" hair and then touches her face...I got the distinct impression that Fujiko would eat her alive (in the metaphorical sense not literally). Very creepy, but interesting how that supposedly sweet scene didn't give me that impression.


There is something malevolent about this iteration of Fujiko. I suspect that her exaggerated sexual exhibitionism might be part of a power fantasy and an act of aggression for her. When I consider that women play such large, leading roles in this production, I keep wondering what their motives with the rampant nudity are. Barring some sort of massive 'false consciousness' problem, which is an interesting allegation that I worry carries too much presumption, it's either a massively cynical play for attention from the male audience or has some narrative purpose. A theme that has come up when distinguishing typical fanservice from the nudity in this is that Fujiko is in control of it. While I expect that to be true, perhaps how she exercises that control is meant to be a bad thing.


Ever heard the saying "Women are the downfall of men"? (although it would apply to women and men here, after episode six) I love that saying because it is so true. Fujiko uses her sexuality as a weapon. It is her best and most lethal asset. Look at spoiler[how she got into Zenigata's pants, and recorded their love making.] That is extremely crafty and shows how she is truly in control of her body. I believe that is what the women involved in this show are trying to illustrate. Besides, a naked woman can be very alluring, sexy, and quite beautiful. So perhaps there's a little fanservice aspect as well, but that's not the prime intent.


I been saying this since the beginning. She is a strong female character. This is unheard of especially in anime and her being nude does not take anything away from the show at all as she is completely comfortable with it as well as uses it to her advantage.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:52 pm Reply with quote
jsc315 wrote:
I been saying this since the beginning. She is a strong female character. This is unheard of especially in anime and her being nude does not take anything away from the show at all as she is completely comfortable with it as well as uses it to her advantage.

She's mostly a strong female character. Her vanity and material greed are dangerously high, though. It's usually not an issue, because she tends to get what she's after, but in episode 5, her desire for the alexandrite peacock almost got her killed, and she might have died for it had Lupin not reasoned her out of it. That's something of a major weakness to have a character value pretty things over their own life.
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jsc315



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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 am Reply with quote
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
jsc315 wrote:
I been saying this since the beginning. She is a strong female character. This is unheard of especially in anime and her being nude does not take anything away from the show at all as she is completely comfortable with it as well as uses it to her advantage.

She's mostly a strong female character. Her vanity and material greed are dangerously high, though. It's usually not an issue, because she tends to get what she's after, but in episode 5, her desire for the alexandrite peacock almost got her killed, and she might have died for it had Lupin not reasoned her out of it. That's something of a major weakness to have a character value pretty things over their own life.


Yea but this is Lupin were talking about here. He'll always rescue her no matter the situation. Many time she'll get captured and Lupin and the gang has to save her and they walk away empty handed. There even time the group is so fed up with her Lupin has to go on his own to save her. She knows she's at risk and some of the times even plans it that way just to get Lupin there.

The two of them have a interesting rivalry. Fujiko is a big cock tease to Lupin and he's a huge perv. He wants to impress her and and please her so he can get into her pants. Both Lupin and Fujoko are thieves and I know this is kind of a prequel, but in the Red series they tend to often steal for the thrill of it. It's not about actual heist or even the money they can get away with, but often fujiko and Lupin are competing for the same thing and it's more about the thrill of seeing who's plan will work best. Usually Fujiko screws over Lupin and the gang and he'll come back for more because he's a big dope that is in love.

Also yes Fujiko tends to value her life less then something that is valuable. She is a very very greedy women. Often she'll put Lupin and the gang in situations they can't even get out of just to get away and steal what ever it is they are attempting to steal. She's a cold bitch that only wants money and diamonds. In the end she knows at least Lupin will be there even if she abuses him and teases him to no end. She may not act it or even show it but she really does care about Lupin.

I hope this explained some things. I know a ton of this is foreshadowing and most of it is not from this series but it relates a lot with who they are and hopefully give you a better idea of who these 2 characters are.
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Surrender Artist
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:33 pm Reply with quote
I liked episode eight a lot. The idea of a fortune teller who specializes in fortelling deaths is a effective one and it had surprisingly strong characterization. It also had Jigen in it, which I always approve of. I always found him more likeable than Lupin and easier to relate to than Goemon. He also plays well off of Lupin, as was on display here. I've been enjoying the art throughout this series and I really loved it in this episode. I'm a sucker for ominous cities in the rain and this episode delivered that in wonderfully stylized spades.

I suspect that Lt. Oscar might be headed toward some kind of breakdown after his prior failures, the wine scene from episode six and spoiler[now having failed again with some condescension from Inspector Zenigata to boot].

This episode also fulfilled my expectation that we'd start to see the way to what those strange storybook flashbacks meant. We have what is presumably the name of our villain who has evident prior, very unhappy ties to Fujiko. It seems likely that spoiler[he sexually abused her when she was a child], which is the obvious, almost intuitive direction, but almost a little disappointing. Yet I hope that there's some more interesting, or at least less demeaning path for this to take. I was very struck spoiler[by Fujiko's intense, cold, pitiless expression as she murdered the fortune teller]. It was a chilling moment. It's can be quite a quandary whe a protagonist is a manipulative, cold-blooded killer.

I'm a little wary, but very interested to see how this will go.

Botan24 wrote:
Ever heard the saying "Women are the downfall of men"? (although it would apply to women and men here, after episode six) I love that saying because it is so true. Fujiko uses her sexuality as a weapon. It is her best and most lethal asset. Look at spoiler[how she got into Zenigata's pants, and recorded their love making.] That is extremely crafty and shows how she is truly in control of her body. I believe that is what the women involved in this show are trying to illustrate. Besides, a naked woman can be very alluring, sexy, and quite beautiful. So perhaps there's a little fanservice aspect as well, but that's not the prime intent.


That's actually the concept that I was drawing upon. I was trying to draw something a little deeper out of it and not condemn the act, but wonder if there was some sort of 'abuse of power' angle to it. It's not a matter of how indifferent a relationship she has with clothing how much mind she pays the consequences of her actions upon others as well as her motivation for why she feels that way. The way she acts is not innately wrong, but can be used wrongly. I have a tricky feeling that when logically extended this line of thought could loop around to something I didn't intend at all, but I wanted to see if there could be something a little deeper about it.

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
She's mostly a strong female character. Her vanity and material greed are dangerously high, though. It's usually not an issue, because she tends to get what she's after, but in episode 5, her desire for the alexandrite peacock almost got her killed, and she might have died for it had Lupin not reasoned her out of it. That's something of a major weakness to have a character value pretty things over their own life.


I don't think that it makes her a weaker character, in an abstract sense, if she has flaws. I think that those flaws make her a better, if not necessarily stronger, character, even if a bad person within the reality of the series. To me the idea of a strong female character is that she's a fairly complete character who is not in a material way demeaned or diminished for the titillation of male audiences, to satisfy the expectations of restrictive gender roles or otherwise subjugated to the expectations of a male audience. Fujiko as portrayed in this series might delicately skirt around that sometimes, but not because she's pathologically, self-destructively greedy.
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Botan24



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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Ah, poor Oscar. He just can't win, can he? Something tells me, spoiler[he might become a pawn of Mr. Owl head.]

Sheesh! I cannot believe that the bad guy is being portrayed with owls! I like owls, in fact, they're like my thing right now. I've got an owl shower curtain, towels, paintings, figures, etc. Grrr...Lupin better kick his ass in the end, or I will not be happy.
Speaking of spoiler[Mr. Owl head, or Luis Yu Almeida, Fujiko's reaction to that name was bone chilling. Guess we found her trigger word. It does seem that she was molested by him when she was much younger. But, I think the wounds go deeper than that. It looks like he did experiments on her, and what not. Perhaps he was trying to create the ultimate woman warrior? The ultimate temptation?] The comments the fortune teller made to Lupin spoiler[about Luis wanting to "test Lupin to see if he's worthy of Fujiko"] were extremely intriguing.

*Sides notes:
-the Monkey Delivery Services van had me in stitches! Lupin is not subtle, but that's part of his charm.
-Lupin smokes Gitanes which is the same brand Takumi smokes in NANA. I have no idea if Ai Yazawa (the mangaka of NANA) intended that as a reference or homage to the Lupin franchise. Its still cool though, either way.
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danilo07



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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:35 am Reply with quote
I think that Lupin III: ~Mine Fujiko to Iu Onna may be a satire of current anime industry(knowing Dai Sato it certainly seems so). Look Fujiko was spoiler[in the past sexually abused,and that abuse ]created character that uses its sexuality as its main weapon to destroy everything.And if we look at anime history we see similar events happening.First the otaku community started sexualising its female characters,until they became obsessed with those sexualised aspect of those characters that it resulted in their own lives being destroyed.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:06 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
I don't think that it makes her a weaker character, in an abstract sense, if she has flaws. I think that those flaws make her a better, if not necessarily stronger, character, even if a bad person within the reality of the series. To me the idea of a strong female character is that she's a fairly complete character who is not in a material way demeaned or diminished for the titillation of male audiences, to satisfy the expectations of restrictive gender roles or otherwise subjugated to the expectations of a male audience. Fujiko as portrayed in this series might delicately skirt around that sometimes, but not because she's pathologically, self-destructively greedy.

I agree that giving her flaws gives the character more depth, but taking it to the degree that it becomes a too-stupid-to-live situation seems to me too far (although hints about those abstract flashbacks may be paving the way for a justification of such an attitude, but as of episode 6, Fujiko seemed to be enjoying life, rather than masking inner turmoil). She's already greedy for the sake of greed, and a completely remorseless killer (for instance, she could have got past the two guards in episode 8 in a more creative way than shooting them in the head).


Last edited by Dorcas_Aurelia on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Botan24



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:14 pm Reply with quote
Whoa, now. Fujiko really went off the deep end here. It looks like we are finally digging under her "tough, devil-may-care" attitude. spoiler[She really is hurting inside, enough so to want to kill herself.] And who can blame her? spoiler[Molested by those freaks and who knows what else they did to her.] Ugh, it gives me shivers. Lupin seems to know more than he's letting on too. But, I must say, Fujiko is a fasinating character study. Especially regarding using her sexuality the way she does. I was all about her using her body as a weapon, but as to her motivations...they are starting to blur. It seems to be rooted in her past, but does she do it because of insecurity, or because she hates all men, or what?

Looks like Fujiko spoiler[may take comfort in the arms of Goeman during the next episode]. I can't wait!
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Dorcas_Aurelia
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:33 pm Reply with quote
So, this show is getting much darker than I initially anticipated from the first episode. I'm not saying that's a bad thing in itself, it's just not what I wanted.
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TeddyBearCedenski



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:19 pm Reply with quote
I like the show so far. Its cool
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jsc315



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:27 pm Reply with quote
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
So, this show is getting much darker than I initially anticipated from the first episode. I'm not saying that's a bad thing in itself, it's just not what I wanted.


Yea the manga goes into some pretty dark places too not like any of the TV series or movies really have.
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Surrender Artist
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Fujiko Mine makes a way better female terminator than Kristanna Loken.

One of the things I find interesting about this series is that it has made Fujiko legitimately scary. In the last episode she killed with an intense, cold-blooded stare and this time she was a relentless, impassive killer. Fujiko was often reduced to an also-ran, plot device and love prop for Lupin in most of what I've seen of the franchise; Sayo Yamamoto and Mari Okada are clearly fighting against that here, not just by making her the central character, but also by lavishing psychological torment and intensity upon her. By contrast, Lupin, Jigen, Goemon and Zenigata have been essentially recurring guest stars whose role in the story tends to orbit Fujiko. I like this, but I worry that they might overreact.

I'm glad that this episode acknowledged how absolutely awful the spoiler[idea of covering a woman in tattoos so she can be paraded about as a living painting, pretty literally objectifying her, for her life]. It was also interesting that the wasn't ultimately a heist story. I don't think that Lupin and Jigen had spoiler[any intention of selling her], Jigen probably wouldn't've stood for it, and Fujiko was evidently spoiler[trying to commit some kind of symbolic suicide by killing the painted girl].

The fact that Lupin seems to know something about Fujiko's past has the potential to cast an interesting shadow on his obsession with Fujiko.

I enjoyed Jigen in this episode. He was usually my favorite in what I've seen before and I like him a lot here. I enjoy the blend of hard-bitten noir anti-hero with slightly reluctant sweetheart underneath. He seems the most genuinely human of the three. Lupin is too inscrutably mischievous and Goemon too hung up on his Samurai motif.

Did anybody else think that the animation was weak in several scenes? I loved the artwork, but some things looked conspicuously bad. When Lupin and Jigen were tossing the carnival prizes around at the beginning, they moved with no sense of weight or gravity. I didn't think that Fujiko looked right as she dashed along the wires of the cable car and something seemed wrong about Lupin's walk cycle in one of the long shots on the dock.
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