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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:43 pm
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BodaciousSpacePirate wrote: | Taiga isn't presented as a villain, though. She's presented as someone who the audience is supposed to like, and supposed to root for, despite her somewhat questionable behavior. |
That's the problem. Just like Kirino from the travesty known as Oreimo, the audience is asked to sympathise with Taiga and root for her even though she's a horrible human being.
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Night fox
Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:28 pm
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I don't think we're supposed to root for Taiga because of her questionable actions, but rather sympathise with her for being an outsider, and consider the reasons behind her behaviour. Taiga is really a vunerable character who lives alone, and finds it very hard to trust people. She's had a falling out with her father, and has so much pent up anger and frustration that she lashes out at everyone who gets close to her. On top of all that she's in love, but doesn't know how to express her feelings. I actually feel like there are lots of reasons to root for Taiga, and certainly don't think that she deserves to be stigmatized.
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Animeking1108
Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:02 pm
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Night fox wrote: | I don't think we're supposed to root for Taiga because of her questionable actions, but rather sympathise with her for being an outsider, and consider the reasons behind her behaviour. Taiga is really a vunerable character who lives alone, and finds it very hard to trust people. She's had a falling out with her father, and has so much pent up anger and frustration that she lashes out at everyone who gets close to her. On top of all that she's in love, but doesn't know how to express her feelings. I actually feel like there are lots of reasons to root for Taiga, and certainly don't think that she deserves to be stigmatized. |
Again, I'd like to point out that a tragic backstory does not justify detestable behavior. Was it her dad's fault she sexually assaulted her opponent?
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Night fox
Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:24 pm
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Animeking1108 wrote: | I think what made me lose hope in her (and the entire series for that matter) was when she cheated during a swimming contest by ripping off Ami's top and then to add insult to injury, tells nobody to help Ryuji after he nearly drowned because they were looking at Ami. |
First of all, the so-called sexual harassment is really just fan service in this scene, and imo not meant to be taken seriously. Secondly, Taiga was the one who helped Ryuji when he was drowning, and in her mind she was actually defending him when she screamed for the others to stay away from him. She was scared she'd lost her best friend, and was overwhelmed with emotions. I thought it was a beautiful moment, where Taiga finally was able to express how much she cares for Ryuji. We clearly enterpret that scene very differently...
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Animeking1108
Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:30 pm
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Would that scene still be funny fanservice if a guy ripped her top off?
It's the same BS we see with every Tsundere. "I love you, but I'll hide it by constantly beating the crap out of you." She's a domestic abuser and a cheater.
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Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4828
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:45 pm
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Animeking1108 wrote: | It's the same BS we see with every Tsundere. "I love you, but I'll hide it by constantly beating the crap out of you." |
Not "every" tsundere does that.
For the record, I like Taiga.
I do not like Kirino though.
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louis6578
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:49 pm
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^
Weird, I dislike Taiga greatly and I... just sorta dislike Kirino.
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Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4828
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:02 pm
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Well, I favor most tsundere......but Kirino was way way too tsun for too long.....and I also can't relate to or root for a girl who wants to do her brother.
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louis6578
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:22 am
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I didn't think too much of the incest subtext since that's kind of par for the course in that show, but I agree. She was FAR too tsun. While I liked Asuka from Evangelion, I didn't enjoy her because she was a tsundere. Unlike most Tsunderes, Asuka was a character and felt like a real teenager, not a stereotype. I think the only Tsundere that worked for me was Makise Kurisu from Steins;Gate, since she never felt too Tsun or Dere. Just the right balance.
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Animeking1108
Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:07 am
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Chiibi wrote: |
Animeking1108 wrote: | It's the same BS we see with every Tsundere. "I love you, but I'll hide it by constantly beating the crap out of you." |
Not "every" tsundere does that.
For the record, I like Taiga.
I do not like Kirino though. |
No, but a good chunk of them are. I never saw what made Taiga so different from other tsunderes. I generally tolerate tsunderes if: A. They're not over-the-top violent (Izumo from "Blue Exorcist" or Haruhi from "Ouran High School Host Club" for example). B. If they are violent, it'd be because the guy they beat on was already an A-hole that actually deserved it most of the time (Kagome from "InuYasha"). C. If their violent moments are so rare, that it doesn't bother me as much (Ran from "Detective Conan"). Or, D. Their violent behavior is treated like an actual flaw and they grow out of it (Kirie from "Girl's Bravo").
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:30 pm
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Lili-Hime wrote: | Just a personal opinion but... Trigger's kind of overrated. |
Moving forward you need to provide more than just this. Simply posting a one sentence opinion like this with no substance or explanation doesn't help to promote any sort of discussion. Which we sort of expect here. So from now one please explain WHY you don't like something/have an unpopular opinion. Thank you.
Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:01 pm
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^
In defense of getchman, he was just answering Chibi's question about what "LWA" was.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:02 pm
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@Psycho 101:
There wasn't an opinion in getchman's post.
Chiibi wrote: | Eh!? what's LWA!? If it's by Trigger, I really want to check it out!
(no, I'm not trolling) |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:06 pm
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My mistake, I missed that part where he was answering a question and not just listing a show. I edited my previous post.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 3017
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:07 pm
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These past two seasons have brought us a lot of critically-acclaimed anime, including Shirobako, Yurikuma Arashi, Oregairu Season 2, Euphonium, and Blood Blockade Battlefront... but in my opinion, none of these shows has come anywhere close to Hello Kiniro Mosaic. Every episode has been incredible, and it's definitely in the running for my personal favorite show of 2015 (although I wouldn't be surprised if the new Gatchaman changed that).
It doesn't seem like it gets much coverage or discussion, though, which is a shame.
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