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FloruOtaku



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Huh. Really? I always thought the show was kinda over hyped.
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 2232

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:14 am Reply with quote
Parse Error wrote:
I think they were just wondering when people would get the joke they mentioned earlier.


Oh. Well, if it was supposed to be a joke, it should (at least) actually be funny. Rolling Eyes
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Parse Error



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:51 am Reply with quote
FloruOtaku wrote:
Huh. Really? I always thought the show was kinda over hyped.

We probably lurk in different places, but from anything I've seen the original hype got replaced by anti-hype fairly quickly. I googled "elfen lied overrated" and the first thing I came across included this exchange, which is typical of what I've been seeing:
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I rather liked it...its my favorite anime so far.

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Is it the only anime you've ever watched? That's the only logical reason I could see someone saying that.

It's actually a bit amusing because the series catches so much flak for possibly appealing to the pretentious "dark and edgy" teenage crowd, even though many of the detractors, such as that one, are not exactly paragons of maturity themselves.

Chiibi wrote:
Oh. Well, if it was supposed to be a joke, it should (at least) actually be funny.

I thought it was funny, but humor is subjective.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:33 am Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:
Quote:
Often, Naota will protest what she is doing but it is always fake protest, like the writers were thinking "He has to tell her to stop, but if he actually escaped from her abuse then we wouldn't have a show anymore, so lets just have him say 'no' and then come back for more punishment." It seems like the motivation behind creating Haruko was just to have this space chick who is as outrageous as possible, because extreme outrageousness is "cool."

It has been pretty much established that Haruko presents to Naota his link to the child inside,which he so desperately tries to get rid off but simply can't (do you see some symbolism here).


If this was the intent, I don't think it was executed well. First of all, Haruko is not child-like. She doesn't act like a child at all. She acts like an insane adult. Do children engage in overt sexual innuendo and simulate sex acts? Do children drive around on Vespa scooters and travel through space on a quest for power? Do children know how to turn people's heads into interdimensional portals? No. Children don't do any of these things. Some people might seek to make such an interpretation, but I don't think it makes sense given that Haruko does not look or act in a child-like manner.

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The supposed "story" is highly convoluted, and yes some people interpret it as this grand "coming of age story," but I don't think it is ever made clear how exactly Naota came of age or how his character changed in a significant way. It seems more like the writing just relies on symbolism rather than storytelling to accomplish this. Naota is a somewhat normal angsty kid for the whole show, then at the end he's suddenly able to "swing the bat", so now he's a man? I just didn't see consistent growth in his character.

The whole point is he is on a line of manhood and childhood.He deosnt know which one to choose due to him witnessing what boring life adults have and what devastating effect staying a child can have(his dad).You can make an argument that his inner struggle was not portrayed well,but I thought it was.Perhaps you should rewatch the show with this in mind.


I didn't see Naota going back and forth between manhood and childhood or unsure about which one to choose. For the entire show he is just an angsty kid, complaining about Haruko beating him over the head and scrambling away from crazy monsters coming out of his head. Again, people might like to project certain grand concepts onto the show, but it does a terrible job of developing any such concepts through storytelling. Every time someone tries to give their explanation of this show, they are restricted to rely on symbolism because abstract symbolism is about all the show has.

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I see the show as two dimensional.On the front you have this surreal comedy filled with amazing action and in the background this incredibly well written story of adolescence .Now that story of adolescence is told through this surreal comedy so I can see why somebody would have an impression that it is just randomness for the sake of randomness.But trust me when I say every detail in this anime is actually pretty important.


Visually, I certainly agree that there are many visuals presented throughout the show which could symbolically work as far as a story about adolescence. Sure, the music is also pretty good in that way. However, writing-wise, there is just not a complete thought with this story. It just bounces all over the place and doesn't actually do the grunt work of developing a fully fleshed story about adolescence and "coming of age." Instead it just throws a bunch of "cool" and abstract material at the audience in rapid-fire mode, on the bet that people will either see it as genius or a mess. Although such gambits by content creators can produce interesting results, and I certainly think FLCL is interesting if nothing else, I feel like those kinds of gambits are usually self-indulgent and show some level of laziness by writers who are hoping to take the quicker path to success.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1562

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
If this was the intent, I don't think it was executed well. First of all, Haruko is not child-like. She doesn't act like a child at all. She acts like an insane adult. Do children engage in overt sexual innuendo and simulate sex acts? Do children drive around on Vespa scooters and travel through space on a quest for power? Do children know how to turn people's heads into interdimensional portals? No. Children don't do any of these things. Some people might seek to make such an interpretation, but I don't think it makes sense given that Haruko does not look or act in a child-like manner.

She does act like a child in a sense you are not thinking of.She does everything spontaneously,completely not caring about any boundaries(at least that was true in eyes Naotas eyes). It is the same reason why Dadists use the word Dada in the name of their movement .That is suppose to signify their connection to babies which they find to be completely free creatures(something that overlaps with their ideology and style of writing). There is also a reason why Haruko has electric guitar.
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I didn't see Naota going back and forth between manhood and childhood or unsure about which one to choose. For the entire show he is just an angsty kid, complaining about Haruko beating him over the head and scrambling away from crazy monsters coming out of his head. Again, people might like to project certain grand concepts onto the show, but it does a terrible job of developing any such concepts through storytelling. Every time someone tries to give their explanation of this show, they are restricted to rely on symbolism because abstract symbolism is about all the show has.

First of all your claim that show only has abstract symbolism is false.Let us not forget there are dialogues there that make things very clear like the one in which Naota yells at Mamimi for not being able to move on (wonderful character if I may add) or the one that Tuor of Gondolin( I spelled it correctly) mentioned.And the story is quite easy to follow and reminds of cheap sci fi movies that were in 70s and such.Second of all what is wrong with tossing completely abstract surreal story that has no plot or characters (once again a claim that is completely false),did poets such as Stéphane Mallarmé waste their lives trying to do something completely worthless.That is not real criticism to me.
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rheiders



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 1032
Location: Colorful Colorado :)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:02 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:

If this was the intent, I don't think it was executed well. First of all, Haruko is not child-like. She doesn't act like a child at all. She acts like an insane adult. Do children engage in overt sexual innuendo and simulate sex acts?

Those who know what those things are do. In fact, those are pretty childish things to do, when you think about it (immature sex jokes, innuendo).

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Do children drive around on Vespa scooters and travel through space on a quest for power? Do children know how to turn people's heads into interdimensional portals? No. Children don't do any of these things. Some people might seek to make such an interpretation, but I don't think it makes sense given that Haruko does not look or act in a child-like manner.

You don't think a child who had access to a Vespa and alien superpowers would do these things? Haruko is selfish, manic, wild, and immature, just like a child. Your examples are too literal- just because most children don't own Vespas means that a character who owns one can't represent childhood? I don't understand that logic.

Quote:

I didn't see Naota going back and forth between manhood and childhood or unsure about which one to choose. For the entire show he is just an angsty kid, complaining about Haruko beating him over the head and scrambling away from crazy monsters coming out of his head. Again, people might like to project certain grand concepts onto the show, but it does a terrible job of developing any such concepts through storytelling. Every time someone tries to give their explanation of this show, they are restricted to rely on symbolism because abstract symbolism is about all the show has.

Visually, I certainly agree that there are many visuals presented throughout the show which could symbolically work as far as a story about adolescence. Sure, the music is also pretty good in that way. However, writing-wise, there is just not a complete thought with this story. It just bounces all over the place and doesn't actually do the grunt work of developing a fully fleshed story about adolescence and "coming of age." Instead it just throws a bunch of "cool" and abstract material at the audience in rapid-fire mode, on the bet that people will either see it as genius or a mess. Although such gambits by content creators can produce interesting results, and I certainly think FLCL is interesting if nothing else, I feel like those kinds of gambits are usually self-indulgent and show some level of laziness by writers who are hoping to take the quicker path to success.

Your problem seems to be with the inclusion of symbolism in itself. Symbols are perfectly valid storytelling devices, and the fact that this story uses a lot of them isn't a flaw in itself. FLCL, like adolescence itself, is a mess, but I would argue that at the very least, it's a mess with a brain.
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 2232

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:00 pm Reply with quote
I absolutely do not want cohesive writing with FLCL.

That removes all of the fun from it. D:
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Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:05 am Reply with quote
'Attack on Titan' isn't the perfect anime- I found the characters to be rather stock, but that's probably because I didn't get far enough in the series to know how the characters develop. However, with fans constantly spouting spoilers on who dies or spoiler[Eren becoming a Titan] pretty much ruined the series for me.

'Negima' is better than 'Harry Potter'- People have often dismissed 'Negima' as a 'Harry Potter' rip off. However, I think the former wins because the series didn't get up its own ass as it progressed, Negi didn't turn into Shinji Ikari with a wand, and they dropped the love story early on instead of it being completely distracting later on. Why did the last three HP books have to suck so badly?
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Thatguy3331



Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 1193

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:42 pm Reply with quote
I have one that's been rattling in my head for a while: I honestly like Index better than Railgun. Yes, I would admit the following:

-Soley as anime, I would say railgun is more accessable and Index has some problems

- like the light novels of index far more than either anime to begin with

- I do not hate railgun persay, as I do keep tabs with the manga.

...however... I usually get bored really fast whenever railgun is doing something purly slice of life related(as well as slightly annoyed due to my large disdain of Kuroko). The only time I get really into it is when we get things like the Sisters arc or the arc involving Misaki in the manga but even then what makes those arcs interesting is the fact that they expand the universe that's presented in Index, which is a huge reason as to why I like it despite normally being a characters > Plot/setting guy. It also didn't really help that everywhere I went right after finishing the first season of Index was just seeing everybody pan it in favor of railgun and treating everyone who likes Index as though they were morons. (( Though that kind of thing would piss me off no matter what series it was, hell I'm a One Piece fan and I dislike a majority of my 'fellow fans'.))
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HoshiNoMiko



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 24
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:57 pm Reply with quote
I went through every post in this thread and I got shocked/confused about something towards pg. 13-15ish... I must be REALLY behind in the anime fandom world because I had no idea that it was an unpopular opinion to like FMA:BH. I was going to come in here and state that I didn't much care for it and expect to be filleted like I have been on every other anime forum I've been on, I've never seen the fandom actually split 50/50. Seriously anywhere else I've ever been I've pretty well been spit on for liking the first series, seeing that part of conversation was refreshing and, well, bizarre.

At any rate, some of my unpopular opinions:

- I prefer dubs to subs, and pretty well only exclusively watch them. A dub has to be a screeching mess before I'll try watching it in Japanese. This is not to say I dislike the original Japanese actors, I just find that not fully understanding the language I can't get all of the subtle emotional intonations, only major emotional scenes. I also find that with a sub it's like reading an audio book with images merely flashing in the background, I can't read fast enough to keep up with everything and I miss all the visuals of the story.

- I found Inuyasha to be a repetitive sloppy mess and just got boring and irritating after a while. I think it took way too long to tell a story.

- I hate Gundam Seed with a passion, despite that it's currently one of the most popular Gundam franchises in Japan. (I'd say Wing has a superior plot but I'd be spouting nostalgic BS).

- I still think Digimon was better than Pokemon
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Ghost_Wheel



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:36 pm Reply with quote
HoshiNoMiko wrote:

- I still think Digimon was better than Pokemon


Amen, brother. Pokemon had better games, but Digimon was a much better anime.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12845
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:56 pm Reply with quote
HoshiNoMiko wrote:
- I still think Digimon was better than Pokemon


I'd be surprised if this was an unpopular opinion. The various Digimon seasons all possess clear narrative structures and good character development. Whereas Pokemon is just an overly-repetitive never-ending saga where nothing ever really changes.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4129
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:49 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, Digimon definitely blows Pokemon out of the water. The unpopular opinion these days seems to be when you don't consider Tamers to be the best season. Which I don't. I didn't like it when I was a kid (I couldn't figure out where the original cast had gone) and when I tried to re-watch it recently, I ended up giving up halfway through because watching it was becoming more chore than entertainment.
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 2232

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:13 am Reply with quote
HoshiNoMiko wrote:

- I found Inuyasha to be a repetitive sloppy mess and just got boring and irritating after a while. I think it took way too long to tell a story.


It might be a little long and repetitive (DBZ and Naruto are far worse imho) but if you mean the writing is "sloppy", I really can't agree with that. The plot is pretty air-tight. I can't think of any holes.

Honestly, so many people unfairly hate on Inuyasha, I'm tempted to say "Inuyasha's a good anime" is an unpopular opinion. :/
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:45 am Reply with quote
Chiibi wrote:
It might be a little long and repetitive (DBZ and Naruto are far worse imho) but if you mean the writing is "sloppy", I really can't agree with that. The plot is pretty air-tight. I can't think of any holes.

Honestly, so many people unfairly hate on Inuyasha, I'm tempted to say "Inuyasha's a good anime" is an unpopular opinion. :/

It is in some ways, isn't in others. The opinion given by HoshiNoMiko is one I hold as well: the plot started well, then began to churn and churn, not really going anywhere. It did this for far too long and after a while I lost all interest in it. I did like the characters, and even the story when it was actually moving along. Kind of a shame, but like a stick of gum, after you chew it for a while, it loses its flavor.
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