Forum - View topicIncest in anime.
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LKK
 Posts: 426 Location: Virginia, USA |
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You neglected to read this earlier post.
The fact that only 24 US states forbid first-cousin marriages also means that 50% of the US allows first-cousin marriages. Therefore your blanket statement that in the U.S.A., cousin marriage is illegal is not true. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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*sigh*
This old topic keeps cropping up in the forums, so it's time to repeat the things that have been said so many, many times before, in other threads. The following are facts, not supposition or opinion: 1) In most nations of the world, and in most U.S. states, marriage between first cousins is legal. Even where marriage is not legal, most jurisdictions do not criminalize sexual relationships between first cousins. 2) A single instance of inbreeding between first cousins is unlikely to produce an elevated risk of congenital disorder. You'd have to have a continual process of repeated inbreeding over generations to have a worrying situation. The exception, of course, is in those cases where the family history includes a preexisting genetic defect (e.g. the Romanovs, and the Hapsburgs). 3) Sibling-marriage has historically occurred many times. In our time, it is generally illegal in most countries of the world. While it is hardly the wisest course, genetically, it poses little risk in single instances. Again, repeated inbreeding and preexisting genetic disorders may render it risky. 4) Always remember that while it is perfectly your right to have your own prejudices and cultural predispositions, it is not good science to assume that they amount to universal truths. Nor is it your right to impose those prejudices upon others. I invite you to read these threads, which have previously dealt with the topic: Elfen Lied Older love interests in anime What could have made a series better. - abunai |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Really? I'm going to need a little more than: it just is, before I accept that kind of statement. Is this as subtext, or just a parable? Oshii's just briefly giving comments on a number of works in that link, and his one paragraph on Grave strikes me as incredibly vague for such a controversial claim. |
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Zoe
 Posts: 898 Location: Austin |
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You realize that the story is semi-biographical, right? |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3876 Location: New York state. |
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I'm in agreement with Dorcas on this matter. From what I seen of the movie, I don't recall any moments that eluded to the possibility of such a relationship between Seita and Setsuko. It was purely platonic and the movie was entirely focused on the deaths of two siblings because one favored their own pride over guaranteed survival in the final days of World War II. Unless there's anything else you have to prove this fact, I can't accept Oshii's opinion. |
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angel_lover
 Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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Semi=half, meaning half of it could be fictional. For example, if it were completely true, the story could never have been written because Akiyuki Nosaka would not have survived to write it. Seita has money - that's never in doubt. However, he refuses to use it because he wants to provide for Setsuko in the same way as a husband would provide for his wife. This is made crystal clear. The clincher is when they are living in the cave towards the end, and at one point Seita appears to try to have sex with Setsuko but she simply says to him "get off me". I saw it, Oshii saw it, but most people seem to have a blackout there and miss it. Anyway, if you're all willing to discount Oshii's opinion then clearly you have a much greater knowledge of anime and Japanese culture than he has, so I won't argue with you. |
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Mistypearl
 Posts: 517 |
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Though in the game ( I THINK) spoiler[ It turns out she is his real sister, and she was just kidding when she said she was adopted, that's what I have read, so it might not be right] Incest is an interesting concept, even in Shugo Chara which is not hentai, there's also implied one-sided with spoiler[ Ikuto and Utau...though mostly Utau trying to kiss Ikuto, then again... who wouldnt? ;D ] Last edited by Mistypearl on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I think you're out of your mind... but I'll pop the DVD in and check the scene in question. Regardless, the whole husband-and-wife thing is nonsensical.
Not to put too fine a point on it, that's just arrant nonsense. You've taken an offhand remark by Oshii, from a translated text, and built it up into a pontifical ex cathedra statement by him. Even if that were his actual opinion, and not just a wry remark, it still remains a fact that he had nothing to do with the film in any way, and his interpretation (if such it is) is just his own take. EDIT: I watched the scene in question... and I have to say that, if you view that as an incestuous situation, then you are very, very sick. - abunai Last edited by abunai on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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And in Vampire Knight spoiler[Kaname and Yuuki are revealed to be brother and sister.]
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angel_lover
Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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I see that the 2009 version of Abunai has very little in common with the old one, who would never, ever, stoop to making a personal attack even if he disagreed utterly with what was being said. For what it's worth, I have reported your comment to the site admin as a flagrant violation of teh rules. Needless to say, I shall not post here again. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I don't even know how to properly describe how wrong that statement is. I, literally, just watched Grave of the Fireflies last night. There is no form of incest in that movie. This statement is like saying "if you care for your family then your practicing incest". The movie is about Seita caring for his little sister after their parents die. How is that incestuous? And the scene that you point to as Seita trying to have sex with Setsuko is being completely miss interpreted. This is nothing but a blind statement with absolutely no grounds. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3876 Location: New York state. |
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I won't mention anything concerning the abunai comments. But, I will respond to your "evidence." In response to your first statement, Seita did indeed spend money to cover both himself and his sister for food and other living necessities. He never refused to use it. He was using the money to hold off with Setsuko believing his father would return home from the war. Until that time came, he believed he could hold ground for himself and Setsuko. But when the money ran low and no one was willing to trade with them, Seita resorted to stealing for the survival of him and Setsuko as siblings, not lovers. Then in your second mentioned statement, Seita was only cuddling up to Setsuko as a brother would to a sister, only for Setsuko to refuse it because she didn't want to. I know enough folks in real life who have siblings that cuddle up together out of platonic love for one another, not in the romantic sense. It seems rather hypersensitive to label any personal contact between siblings like holding hands, hugging, or sleeping together to be incest. |
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sanosuke32
Posts: 454 |
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I really don't understand how anyone can interpret Grave of the Fireflies as incest. I watched the movie and my mom just so happened to be there and I don't remember any form of incest or else I would've probably turned it off and thrown it out. And for sure my mother would've said something about it.
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Showsni
 Posts: 641 |
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I'm about halfway through watching Simoun at the moment, and that has an incestuous one night stand in it. I don't know of any furute developments, but at this point it seems to have rather messed up the characters involved, with them unable to fly a Simoun together, because apparently they're rejecting each other, or at least one is. One of them seems to want to go back to how things were before that night, and the other seems to want to have nothing to do with her.
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jel123
Posts: 108 |
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It's been a while since I watched "Grave of the Fireflies" but I have to admit I did get the feeling that there was the possibility of incest. After all here is a teenage boy with no friends and no adult supervision that spends all his time with his (much) younger sister. All those hormones have to go somewhere.
Maybe I'm just the suspicious type but apparently I'm not alone. In addition to angel_lover (whose views on this are much stronger than mine) there is Freda Freiberg, a film historian, who puts forth that that kind of relationship may have been hinted at in the movie. For what it's worth the author's own words about the relationship from this interview;
To me it's not unreasonable to get the impression that Seita may have had more than platonic feelings for his sister. Whether he acted on them or not (or even understood what he may have been feeling) is never disclosed. |
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