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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:59 pm Reply with quote
I don't see how. Just because I'm not praising the show does not in anyway mean it's a "troll". Can you argue my points at all? You really can't say that all these things are happening at random for no real reason.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 2919
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:11 pm Reply with quote
ggqt wrote:
It's almost a given that he was going to get in the robot one way or another. There was no real need for random characters to yell at him to get in. Let alone the process of how he got to the boat. Three grown man, smugglers no less, can't force a kid to give up a bracket he stole?

There are a lot of examples where major plot elements are just forced, in only two episodes.


they are not random characters. lol They want to use the Mecha to save the town. You know know later or go read the manga. They play some important role.

The Ao doesn't want to give them the key because that's his mother's bracket. That's Ao's robot, nobody is going to use it other than him. Everybody should know that before even watch the first ep.

your examples are bad. You name me one anime, I can use the same logic that you just used.
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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:34 pm Reply with quote
Spotlesseden wrote:
ggqt wrote:
It's almost a given that he was going to get in the robot one way or another. There was no real need for random characters to yell at him to get in. Let alone the process of how he got to the boat. Three grown man, smugglers no less, can't force a kid to give up a bracket he stole?

There are a lot of examples where major plot elements are just forced, in only two episodes.


they are not random characters. lol They want to use the Mecha to save the town. You know know later or go read the manga. They play some important role.

The Ao doesn't want to give them the key because that's his mother's bracket. That's Ao's robot, nobody is going to use it other than him. Everybody should know that before even watch the first ep.

your examples are bad. You name me one anime, I can use the same logic that you just used.


I feel so much hostility. But I guess if you are going to treat me like a troll I might as well have fun acting like one.

Lol you try to pose an intelligent argument but you can't really even read. You make a faulty point about Ao not "wanting" to give up the bracelet when I implied that the three grown men should have just TAKEN it, And yes yelling "GET IN IT!! GET IN IT" is forcing plot progression, as well as trying to indirectly explain the plot to the audience.

My trolling skills are rusty, I'm pretty sure I need a few more "lols" and "umadbros" in there. But I'm sure it's fine.


Last edited by ggqt on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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G-mofactor



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 788
Location: Atlantis to Interzone

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:54 pm Reply with quote
ggqt wrote:
You make a faulty point about Ao not "wanting" to give up the bracelet when I implied that the three grown men should have just TAKEN it, And yes yelling "GET IN IT!! GET IN IT" it forcing plot progression, as well as trying to indirectly explain the plot to the audience.


I understand your point, but I think there is already too much already going on. Even the first episode's developments went quick as well, and second episode is the continuation of that of course. On top of that, there are already a lot of characters that are introduced, or to keep track of. So, I can see how it could be congested.

Although, if there was more to the plot of what and why there is so much happening in those two episodes, then the attack on the island might last longer than 2 episodes. There is too much questions right now, and very little to support any arguments in my opinion.
You just have to observe what going on, have some kind of reasonable doubt, and watch as the story progress. Who knows, an episode might focus on what kind of roles those three men play in the story.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 2919
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:41 pm Reply with quote
ggqt wrote:
Spotlesseden wrote:
ggqt wrote:
It's almost a given that he was going to get in the robot one way or another. There was no real need for random characters to yell at him to get in. Let alone the process of how he got to the boat. Three grown man, smugglers no less, can't force a kid to give up a bracket he stole?

There are a lot of examples where major plot elements are just forced, in only two episodes.


they are not random characters. lol They want to use the Mecha to save the town. You know know later or go read the manga. They play some important role.

The Ao doesn't want to give them the key because that's his mother's bracket. That's Ao's robot, nobody is going to use it other than him. Everybody should know that before even watch the first ep.

your examples are bad. You name me one anime, I can use the same logic that you just used.


I feel so much hostility. But I guess if you are going to treat me like a troll I might as well have fun acting like one.

Lol you try to pose an intelligent argument but you can't really even read. You make a faulty point about Ao not "wanting" to give up the bracelet when I implied that the three grown men should have just TAKEN it, And yes yelling "GET IN IT!! GET IN IT" is forcing plot progression, as well as trying to indirectly explain the plot to the audience.

My trolling skills are rusty, I'm pretty sure I need a few more "lols" and "umadbros" in there. But I'm sure it's fine.


good people don't forcibly take stuffs from kids. Like i said they are not random characters. They told him if he doesn't want to give them the key, he will have to come with them and pilot the robot. I don't understand your logic. Your troll skill is bad. like i said. Give me an anime, i will use your logic for any anime. Like naruto, "fight, fight" force plot.
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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:08 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
good people don't forcibly take stuffs from kids. Like i said they are not random characters. They told him if he doesn't want to give them the key, he will have to come with them and pilot the robot. I don't understand your logic. Your troll skill is bad..



I don't know why you are getting so up set, I'm just making fun of a bad show. See what's funny is your naruto argument is implied while mine is literal. Plus no one ever said naruto was good. Sorry but your literary skills suck.

I'm not even going to bother to defend my point anymore, because well... I don't need to. It defends it self. You just try WAY to hard to defend a show that is bad.

Quote:
like i said. Give me an anime, i will use your logic for any anime. Like naruto, "fight, fight" force plot.


Hmm ok you want a challenge?
Do Pokémon. Try and find a forced plot in that?
That's right; you can't. because there is no plot.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 2919
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:26 pm Reply with quote
how about they force the anime to fight. why just let them fight and do their thing. Stop telling pikachu to "run, run, run"

Team rocket forced into bad situations without explanation.

http://youtu.be/​nM48Y1oq214

what make you think i'm upset? I just don't get your point. your logic doesn't make any sense.

Why don't you explain why telling the kid to "get in it, get in it" is forced plot? And what should they do to make it not force?
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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:43 pm Reply with quote
Meh. You're grasping, it's common knowledge that Pokémon as no plot.

As for how I know you're upset. It's pretty simple to see you are being openly hostel at me because I was saying the show is bad.

Hey, I want the show to be a good as the next guy; but it's just not.
Just far to many plot holes and the show's barely started. Like I can tell you right now the magic circles they added for prettiness is never going to be explained,
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 2919
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Where i was "openly hostel at you?" because i disagree with you forced plot logic? I don't even know if this show is good or not. If just want people to agree with you, then fine I won't response to any of your future post.

do you even watch my vid? it has no plot? you lose all your credibility.

Quote:
The Pokémon Mewtwo was created in an island laboratory from the DNA of Mew, a rare Pokémon believed to be extinct, recovered from fossilized remains. Displeased with the concept of being nothing more than a mere lab experiment, Mewtwo destroys the laboratory.[2] Shortly afterward, he meets Giovanni, the head of Team Rocket, who proposes a partnership with the Pokémon in exchange of helping it control its powers. Mewtwo is "trained" over the next few months, being pitted against challengers in Giovanni's gym and restraining Pokémon for Team Rocket to capture. Mewtwo eventually realizes that Giovanni is merely using him as a tool and destroys his headquarters. Mewtwo flies back to the island where it was created and begins plotting revenge against humanity......
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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:03 am Reply with quote
I think you broke sarcasm. Clearly Pokémon has a plot, EVERYTHING has a plot. The implied point was that pokémon's plot is so simple it does not need explaining. The plot is straight froward so nothing can be forced.

Quote:
your examples are bad. You name me one anime, I can use the same logic that you just used.


Clearly hostile. Though really, if I cared about people disagreeing with me I would not come to place like there internet where there are more conflicting opinions than anywhere else.
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kaydub



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 318
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:21 am Reply with quote
2 episodes in and so far Ao isn't totally whiny and annoying, and there aren't any uber-annoying toddlers running around with the sole purpose of making both Ao's and the audience's life miserable.

I'd say this one is off to a great start!


In all seriousness, I thought it was a good episode. I didn't think anything was really forced plot-wise, at least compared to the beginning episodes of pretty much any other mecha series. The only things I didn't really like were when Ao's hair changed color (although I knew it was going to happen since the promo pics were released) and when spoiler[Fleur found Ao floating in the water after he flew away. Specifically, why was he unconscious in the water? He seemed plenty fine when he flew away and found a nice secluded spot to park the Nirvash... did he just decide to take a nap face-down in the water or something?]

Also, new Nirvash is even more BA than old Nirvash. Me gusta.
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Svidrigailov



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:21 am Reply with quote
ggqt wrote:
Can you argue my points at all?

Yes, I just didn't want to bother. So against my better reason:

ggqt wrote:
It's was when the random fodder characters crashed their flying car into the ship and Ao feel out and grabbed on to the robot then they started yelling at him to get in it. It's almost a given that he was going to get in the robot one way or another. There was no real need for random characters to yell at him to get in.

"Fodder characters" usually don't last more than a few minutes, e.g. every random Zaku pilot in MSG or Shin in the final episode of Bebop. These characters have been around for two episodes, so at the very least it's too early to deem them "fodder". Next we have the brilliant observation that in stressful situations, people yell at other people, usually about a line of flight any lumpen with a hint of gumption will take. Ever drive a car and have someone yell "Slow down!" or "Stop!" when a car in front of you hits the brakes? Yeah, it happens.

ggqt wrote:
The Ao doesn't want to give them the key because that's his mother's bracket. That's Ao's robot, nobody is going to use it other than him. Everybody should know that before even watch the first ep.

Ever heard of Deus ex machina? Name me a single series -- no, name me any piece of fiction that escapes this criticism. Why don't you go bitch out Aeschylus and Homer while you're at it?

ggqt wrote:
Lol you try to pose an intelligent argument but you can't really even read. You make a faulty point about Ao not "wanting" to give up the bracelet when I implied that the three grown men should have just TAKEN it, And yes yelling "GET IN IT!! GET IN IT" is forcing plot progression, as well as trying to indirectly explain the plot to the audience.

See above.

ggqt wrote:
Hmm ok you want a challenge?
Do Pokémon. Try and find a forced plot in that?
That's right; you can't. because there is no plot.

Wrong. Why a Pikachu? Why not start with Magikarp or Meowth or some shit? There's 151 in the original series, right? Why that one? And what about the new Pokemon magically appearing? I don't know enough about the show to go in depth, but I assume the protagonist wins a lot, right? Why? Why doesn't he lose? Deus ex machina.

ggqt wrote:
you are being openly hostel at me because I was saying the show is bad.

You mean he's being openly hostel-like? Inviting, European and relatively cheap? No, of course you mean hostile. As soon as you make it a point to criticize one's literacy, yours is put under the magnifying glass. Not to mention ad homs are a logical fallacy, implied or otherwise. ("Lol you try to pose an intelligent argument but you can't really even read.")

ggqt wrote:
Like I can tell you right now the magic circles they added for prettiness is never going to be explained,

Magic circles? I honestly don't recall. Care to refresh my memory?
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Unicorn_Blade



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1030
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:27 am Reply with quote
Aw, the beginning made me laugh, just like Eureka 7 made me laugh a few times ex. (football match episode). Gazelle and his buddy sliding off the ship into the sea was hilarious.

Ao and his friends to me seem like more bearable main characters than Eureka and Renton, I was not fond of the Eureka until the second half and when it comes to Renton, I felt more sorry for him than anything else for being a scape goat.

They still did not give a lot of hints as to where the series actually takes place... Is it parallel world, is that the Eureka we know, and if yes, obviously Renton was not there. I wonder whether we will get to see any of the first series' characters at all.

At any rate, so far so good.
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ggqt



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Whoa Svidrigailov slow down, that's is far to much for me to care about about.

A few things though. You are not only over using the term Deus ex machina, you are using it wrong for the most part.

Quote:
ggqt wrote:
The Ao doesn't want to give them the key because that's his mother's bracket. That's Ao's robot, nobody is going to use it other than him. Everybody should know that before even watch the first ep.

Ever heard of Deus ex machina? Name me a single series -- no, name me any piece of fiction that escapes this criticism. Why don't you go bitch out Aeschylus and Homer while you're at it?


I never said that lol. That was someone else. Want another example of funny plot forcing? Remember when his robot's arm got cut off, then he says; "omg I lost my arm, jk lol nvm" (I'm paraphrasing) then kills the black thing with it.

You are confusing plot in general with Deus ex machina. probably because you don't actually know what it means. Episode one gives valid reasons why he gets Pikachu; he woke up late, all the other start pokemon where gone and professor Oak had just caught it slightly before hand. Valid reasons as to why, not just because.

Yeah yeah; hostel. I post from my phone most of the time. Have you ever tried typing on a touch screen with projected text? I'm surprised why spelling is as good as it is.

Magic circles: Episode One around 17:29. There is no reason for them I'm sure. But hey they look cool. Maybe more people will watch the show because of them. It was better when they where just rings, like in the original E7
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Svidrigailov



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
ggqt wrote:
A few things though. You are not only over using the term Deus ex machina, you are using it wrong for the most part.
Okey dokey. From wikipedia: "deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object." So where am I misusing it? The new event (i.e. big monster killing the shit out of their island) suddenly affecting the supporting characters' decision to instead of robbing the kid, take him to a robot? Where I said "see above"? Where I suggest that there is deus ex machina somewhere in Pokemon?
ggqt wrote:
I never said that lol. That was someone else.
That it was. My bad.
ggqt wrote:
Want another example of funny plot forcing? spoiler[Remember when his robot's arm got cut off, then he says; "omg I lost my arm, jk lol nvm" (I'm paraphrasing) then kills the black thing with it.]
In fact spoiler[the monitor says "left arm lost," to which he replies, "It's not lost. Pick it up."] I believe Shiro Amada does something similar in The 08th MS Team. In any case, what's forced about this?
ggqt wrote:
Episode one gives valid reasons why he gets Pikachu; he woke up late, all the other start pokemon where gone and professor Oak had just caught it slightly before hand. Valid reasons as to why, not just because.
I don't see how that's any more valid than what you're criticizing here.
ggqt wrote:
Magic circles: Episode One around 17:29. There is no reason for them I'm sure. But hey they look cool. Maybe more people will watch the show because of them. It was better when they where just rings, like in the original E7
Ah, a legitimate objection…but I don’t think they look cool. It’s probably some half-assed attempt at glyphs to give it a more mystic air.
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