Forum - View topicNEWS: Nintendo's 1st-Ever Annual Loss Pegged at US$535 Million
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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They may still be a major player, but they're far from where they once were and they're still trending downwards. And yes, the industry is a niche of sorts, but Nintendo seems to be aiming at a niche within that niche, which was the point I was making. It's no mystery why the majority of the highest selling titles out there aren't on the Wii and it's simply because it just doesn't have the hardware to stand up to the competition. |
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GrilledEelHamatsu
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I agree. During the mid 1990s, Nintendo 64 and Sega Saturn were very powerful and dignified systems. We already know the problems that plagued the Saturn and sealed its fate, but Nintendo 64's biggest flaw was that it stuck with cartridges, which in turn made programming the console VERY difficult,eliminated space, and made it hard to utilize N64's 5MB RAM power over Playstation's puny 1MB(This should have been Saturn's biggest advantage over PS1 with 4MB RAM in addition to it being TWICE as powerful.) The use of cartridges also meant that chips and parts for N64 ROMs would be scarce. By 1996, hardly anyone was using ROM chips for cartridges. CD ROMs had already taken over. And Nintendo also found itself facing 3rd party criticism that SEGA was facing with Saturn, developers claiming that both systems are "too hard to code". The reason why Nintendo had to stick with carts is because Panosonic refused to supply CDX for Nintendo after the Sony/Philips Super Famicom CD/Super Nintendo CD debacle. Prior to the Ultra 64, Nintendo was developing a 32-bit console not 64-bit. Project Reality/Atlantis in 1993, Nintendo's primary contenders at the time were 3DO and Jaguar & would have been Sega Jupiter(Which SEGA of Japan begin developing in early 1993). but SEGA kept a tight lid on development of "Aurora" Genesis/MD's successor so Nintendo had little to no knowledge on what SEGA was planning. Unlike SEGA who changed "Aurora" chipset from "Jupiter/Model 1" over to "Saturn/Model 2" due to poor arcade reception, and was in no way affected by the unveiling of PSX since SEGA made the chipset change in Summer 1993 and had no knowledge of PSX which was announced in January 1994, Nintendo indeed was affected by this newcomer and decided to scrap "Reality" which was a 2D only hybrid. So they took "Reality/Atlantis" and gave it to Gunpei Yokoi to build a vaporware device,this is where Virtual Boy came from. Nintendo soon found themselves back to square one, so they sought another chipset. They soon discovered "Ultra 64" a single core 64-bit arcade chipset SEGA had brief interest in for "Model 3". SEGA offered the chipset to Nintendo, because they had only been interested in using it as a high end arcade machine & had ALREADY finalized Saturn and instead invested in something more powerful and expensive for Model 3. So Nintendo felt pleased that SEGA was allowing them access to this build and officially begin development of project "Ultra 64" in March 1994. When SEGA moved on to Dreamcast, N64 was an even tougher spot, pressure to move to its successor as well as pressure to use disc media was mounting on them. Dolphin begin development in June 1999, 3 months before Dreamcast's US release, Nintendo planned it as Dreamcast's competitor and in between PS2, SEGA and Nintendo were hoping PS2's hype would weight it down so that Dreamcast could live and Dolphin could thrive, then soon after Mircosoft announced it was entering the console race and wheras pressure to stay in the hardware business was heavy, Dolphin's expectations were higher than before. When SEGA finally waived the white flag in 2001, Gamecube was on its way, Nintendo's investors found itself without its old worthy contender and embraced SEGA's fanbase, but decided that the hardcore gaming base wasn't going to be excited for Gamecube's brand and its design. Nintendo even threw out its planned online network plan. And this is where the bubble begin to burst. Nintendo's attempts to be exotic with Mini DVD ROM backfired. As developers including SEGA found the system to be extremely difficult to code. Nintendo also begin to become aggressive towards its 3rd party partners and pushed for exclusives. But this turned off support, and Nintendo's lack of online gaming became the console's BIGGEST weakness. Gamcube's Mini DVD ROM also left developers unable to utilize its capabilities, so they coded many games using low res engines which as a result led to plenty of mediocre less polished PS2 ports. With Wii, Nintendo felt that it was time to take risks. PS3 was coming and Nintendo's investors knew its fate was already sealed when they learned it was going to be an extremely expensive budget. So they redesigned GC, added gimmicky features and marketed it aggressively to non gamers, which resulted in success but at a price. Hardcore gamers being turned off more and more by Nintendo and SEGA doing exclusives but feeling tepid over the lack of decent console hardware in the 7th gen. Wii being too weak,PS3 being too expensive, and Xbox 360 being a cheap unpolished non-Japanese console. I guess from a standpoint, back when SEGA was a hardware company, Nintendo was alot more serious with maintaining a hardcore brand. SMS/Mark III was far more powerful than NES/Famicom but Nintendo used its brand and respect for restoring the US game industry from the 1984 Crash to take the crown as the 8-bit king. Super Nintendo/Super Famicom had heavy hardcore appeal and a 2 year technical advantage over Genesis/Mega Drive, Genesis was lucky because of Sonic but Sega took the creation of its weapon that defeated the NES for granted. Had N64 used CDX, it would have made life a living hell for Saturn and had Dreamcast lived longer, Gamecube probably would have been called "Nintendo Starcade" and would have used DVD ROM not Mini DVD and would had an online system. Had SEGA build a console from its LINDBERGH arcade hardware "SEGA Cosmic Smash" Wii probably would have been called "Nintendo Twilight" and would have used a chipset just slightly above 360. |
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GrilledEelHamatsu
Posts: 703 |
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Back when SEGA was in the game, Graphics mattered. They pushed Master System's use of 64 colors over NES' 16 colors. To combat Super Nintendo's 2 year spec advantage, SEGA invented the term "Blast Processing" which referred to the Genesis' more polished sprites faster better designed CPU over SNES slow CPU. During the 32-bit days, SEGA tried to point out Saturn's technical superiority over Playstation and Nintendo pushed the term "64" to show that N64 was well ahead of Playstation. When Dreamcast hit in '99, EVERYONE saw how graphics mattered and how Dreamcast was FAR ahead of PS1 and N64. Nintendo just makes excuses. Graphics CAN make gameplay. Its all about execution and hardware design. Dreamcast was a developer's dream come true. It was so easy to program and to make visuals look better than PS2, all they had to do was overclock the system. Nobody has really bothered or tried to build a console with great graphics in a long time. PS3's came with a heavy price so it doesn't count. Wii U uses Radeon Cypress so it won't even be capable of DirecX 11.1 |
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ArsenicSteel
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That depends on how you look at the numbers and the span of time you're using. If you are talking about cross-platform games then yeah there's various technical reasons why those games aren't present on the Wii but that still being the case if you look at console specific sales, Nintendo games tend to have higher sales numbers. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Interesting, since I just did a look through various industry journals and magazines at the top game sales of 2011 and the Wii was hardly even present in the list aside from "Just Dance". Judging by sales ratings on major retailers sites as well I'm not seeing much to support the idea that Wii games are outselling those for competing platforms.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I always said Nintendo should have gotten LovePlus released to the world.
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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I assume you are ignoring handhelds. So If you just do the best selling of 2011 and focus on console exclusives then Nintendo only had Just Dance, Microsoft only had GoW, and the rest were games that shared across platforms. My comment about Nintendo games wasn't limited to consoles and was more about to-date numbers and individual sales figures.
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GrilledEelHamatsu
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Handhelds and Portables are Nintendo's bread and butter. Just like Arcades are SEGA's. Its what they'll always be best at. Sure 3DS had a gimmick, but it's still a charming likeable handheld. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I am not ignoring handhelds. Overall the handheld market sales are not only much smaller than PC and console sales, but are also largely less profitable as well. Trying to survive in this market aiming only for that segment of the demographic and expecting to be up top just isn't feasible.
Plus, even in the handheld market Nintendo's role has decreased over the past few years. You compare game and hardware sales for the DS and 3DS for 2011 and they still lag behind the exploding smart phone and tablet game market which is overrunning the portable game market more and more with each quarter. Heck, I have personally owned every Nintendo handheld up to this point, but I frankly have no intention or desire of getting a 3DS. The hardware gains just aren't there, the price is too high for what I'd get from the upgrade, and the 3D screen is really pretty underwhelming considering it's the centerpiece of the device. Add to that the increasingly lackluster library and I just feel I could spend better elsewhere. So sure, in that one portion of the market amongst the established game hardware manufacturers Nintendo is still maintaining the lead, but when you look at the overall picture they're position even there isn't so great. I think Nintendo could still do great things if they could bring some of that innovation to bear on devices that are worthwhile, but they just can't seem to do that. I'd love to see Nintendo stay strong, but their history of sitting stagnant while the markets shift doesn't bode well for them in this current market, particularly in the rapidly shifting handhelds market. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Unless Nintendo enters the telecommunication industry there's not a whole lot they can do to answer smart phones gaming. It's not a matter of being stagnant but knowing what you can and cannot do.
The handheld gaming and smart phone gaming markets are like apples and oranges. Nobody goes out to buy a smart phone because of it's puzzle games. It seems like a bigger problem for companies like Tiger Electronics and other businesses that make those cheap $5 LCD games. |
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Saffire
 Posts: 1255 Location: Iowa, USA |
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Smartphones are pretty unlikely, but I do wonder if the WiiU indicates interest in the tablet market. Nintendo has enough brand recognition to make a run at it, as long as they put some effort into building a platform under it.
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population_tire
 Posts: 576 |
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I just wish Nintendo would catch up with online gameplay and abandon friend codes. A Pokemon MMO will never happen if things continue as they are.
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Ddoddka_10
Posts: 34 |
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wow, maybe now they'll start thinking better, stop making all the good games for the wii , and make another consol as good as the 64 was
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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If you're talking about Nintendo produced games, then you have a point. The problem the Wii is facing as well as Nintendo's last two consoles, and the Wii U will eventually face, is a lack of third party support. First party games can only take you so far. The Gamecube had some amazing games from Nintendo, but games from other developers were fairly lackluster, despite being a more powerful system than the PS2. There is a reason why Nintendo's console sales lag in between their major game releases. Many of their top developers got burned by the Wii. A lot of that was due to the fact that many developers just didn't know how to develop a game that properly used the system's controls. Hell, it's still a problem that pops up now, as well as on the Xbox Kinnect and Playstation Move. It's going to be hard to convince them to develop top notch games for the Wii U after the issues with original Wii, and Nintendo's long history now with 3rd party developers. Nintendo will have a lot to prove with their new console, but if they don't get good third part support and excellent sales numbers, they will have some issues. As far as mobile gaming, well that market is changing entirely. More people play games of all sorts on their smart phones and iPod touches. Why spend the money on another system when you can get a larger game selection on your phone or mp3 player? Nintendo has even admitted that Apple is now their biggest competition and threat. The iPod Touch alone already outsells Nintendo's handheld systems and Apple sells even more phones and tablets. I think at some point, Nintendo will either have to go the Sega route or sell out to a larger player. Game consoles are slowly becoming entertainment hubs, which Nintendo has little experience in and they are slowly loosing the handheld market to companies like Apple, Samsung, and Google. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Of course I'm talking about Nintendo as a whole and things that would show up on Nintendo's financial reports. 3rd parties would probably report their earnings in a report that's not branded with the Nintendo logo.
And there is a reason why competitor's sales have just barely caught up to Nintendo five years into this generation.
How so? Not knowing how to program games for the console isn't getting burned by Nintendo. If that's the case then many developers were also burned by Sony with the PS3 because a lot of devs said the PS3 architecture was more of a hassle than the 360.
There won't be any convincing needed more than what's already takes place. The Wii already has a version of most of the multiplaform games out now.
The returning champs do have a lot to prove. If the get a lot of repeat customers and the same level of 3rd party support as they do now then their only issues will be how to spend all that money.
People tend to want to buy dedicated devices like gaming systems and have a selection of full games that aren't as limited in play-style as "phone games" are. Last edited by ArsenicSteel on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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