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NEWS: New York Lists Media Blasters as Dissolved as of April 2011


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:46 am Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
In your opinion. In my opinion it was misleading. It lead me to conclude something about Media Blasters that may not be true. Isn't that the very definition of misleading? ...

If a combination of correct information and false assumptions leads to a false conclusion, some people would lay the fault at the feet of the false assumptions rather than at the feet of the correct information.


Rolling Eyes Here's the first three paragraphs of the original article:

Quote:
The New York State Department of State currently lists the North American anime distributor Media Blasters Inc. as an inactive company. According to the state, Media Blasters was dissolved by proclamation as of April 27, 2011.

The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance Technical Services Bureau Memo 86 (5)C defines dissolution by proclamation as follows: "A domestic (formed in New York State) corporation which has failed to file required franchise tax reports or pay franchise taxes due for two consecutive years may be dissolved by the Secretary of State upon recommendation by the State Tax Commission." The memo also notes that dissolution by proclamation "will result in substantial penalties against the corporation," and that "once the corporation is dissolved, its name may no longer be used legally."

According to New York Business Corporation Law Article 1005 (a) (1), after dissolution of a company, "the corporation shall carry on no business except for the purpose of winding up its affairs." Also according to New York law, the shareholders, directors, and officers of a company that has dissolved are still responsible for any debts owed to the company's creditors if the company does not notify the creditors of the dissolution, or if the company makes a knowingly false representation of the company with intent to deceive, such as if the company appears that it is still in existence after dissolution.


Okay given that everything above is factual, is it really so crazy that a reader would get the impression that MB is incredibly screwed (which it may be)? Really? Such a reader would be adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 3? Really? So adding information that a company that has been listed as dissolved can potentially rectify the situation relatively simply by filing some paperwork isn't germane at all for a reader to get a more balanced view of MB's future prospects? Rolling Eyes

If I was reading an article about how someone was convicted of a crime, I would not expect the article to note that the convicted person has the option of appealing the decision if he or she so wished because that is pretty common knowledge that any normal person could be expected to have. When it comes to the topic of corporate dissolutions in the state of New York (or anywhere else for that matter), I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say the level of general knowledge is somewhat lower. Rolling Eyes
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:10 am Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
In your opinion. In my opinion it was misleading. It lead me to conclude something about Media Blasters that may not be true. Isn't that the very definition of misleading? ...

If a combination of correct information and false assumptions leads to a false conclusion, some people would lay the fault at the feet of the false assumptions rather than at the feet of the correct information.


That may be true, but I have to agree that the article was a little one sided. Allegedly, ANN discussed the matter with a New York lawyer. However, they did fail to mention that Media Blasters could continue to operate and works towards reinstatement under state law. Now excluding that isn't really unethical, and it's not factually incorrect to do so.

However, it does leave out something that many would consider important to the article. It also leaves out something that many consider adding a little more balance to it. Certainly they weren't required to do so, and the story likely got a lot more attention the way they wrote it. Hell, this thread has added several more posts just because of the exclusion of that.

There isn't really anything wrong with the way they presented the article, even if it was less than balanced. Personally, I think they should have mentioned the fact that Media Blasters could work towards reinstatement, instead of burying that in the forums, but what's done is done. There really isn't any point in anyone getting angry over it now. Presenting stories in a less than balanced way is pretty much the way news works these days. You get more clicks and comments, as this thread has shown.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:26 am Reply with quote
@dragonrider_cody - the only thing I would say about what you wrote is that you seem to be inferring that ANN deliberately with-held additional information to be more sensationalistic and get more attention. I don't believe that for a second. To me there are two reasons why the information wasn't there:

1) Despite their research, they were genuinely unaware that relatively simple remedies existed to mitigate/reverse a proclamation of dissolution in the state of New York, or,

2) They were aware of that fact but made an honest error in judgment in not adding that to the story that is not based on maliciousness or a desire to be sensationalistic.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:44 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
@dragonrider_cody - the only thing I would say about what you wrote is that you seem to be inferring that ANN deliberately with-held additional information to be more sensationalistic and get more attention. I don't believe that for a second. To me there are two reasons why the information wasn't there:

1) Despite their research, they were genuinely unaware that relatively simple remedies existed to mitigate/reverse a proclamation of dissolution in the state of New York, or,

2) They were aware of that fact but made an honest error in judgment in not adding that to the story that is not based on maliciousness or a desire to be sensationalistic.


Any of those are really a possibility. But an error in judgement is an error in judgement regardless of the reasoning. I highly doubt they were unaware of the possibility that MB could work towards resolving the issue, when it was tempest who added that to the conversation in the first place. Not to mention, they said they researched the issue with a lawyer, who should be aware of the fact. ANN also stated that they extended the deadline for the story twice, and they should have given them ample time to research the law.

Now I don't necessarily think ANN intentionally made the story sensationalist, but by excluding important facts, either by lack of research (which is no excuse) or by an error in judement, they definitely made the story take on a more lively nature than it otherwise would have. The simply addition of "Companies that have been dissolved by the state can continue to work towards reestablishing listing their company and resolving the issue with New York", or something along those lines, would have definitely calmed some people down and prevented some from jumping to the conclusion that MB was operating illegally.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:22 am Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
they said they researched the issue with a lawyer, who should be aware of the fact.

Why didn't they contact someone at the Secretary of State's office in Albany to get some background on what dissolution means, how often if occurs, how often companies repair the problem and get reinstated, etc.? Talking to "a lawyer" is all well and good, but the SoS's office would be the most knowledgeable source. I doubt they would talk on the record about this specific case, but they certainly could have provided some background information on the process of dissolution, its frequency, and its likely consequences.
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kusanagi-sama



Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:06 pm Reply with quote
TD912 wrote:
tangytangerine wrote:
There's a couple releases that I'd like to pick up on that release schedule, including the Kanokon tv/ova collection. Don't know if it related to the news lately, but the tv series collection price is weird(look at Amazon's prices for it, wtf?). So hopefully I'll be able to pick it up in September at a reasonable price.


Those prices are from third-party sellers, not directly from Amazon. They can set their own prices, but I'm not sure why they are so high. It was originally released for around $30, nowhere near $1000.

It's still on RightStuf: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/qaJ3Fm69K-=acIoix8/browse/item/90703/4/0/0

Here's the TV+OVA Collection up for preorder: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007I1TGOA/
http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/qaJ3Fm69K-=acIoix8/browse/item/94167/4/0/0

If you wants it, you can always preorder and cancel later without being charged anything if you change your mind.


I think someone is hacking Amazon and messing with seller prices. There's no reason for something to be $1000 like that.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:15 pm Reply with quote
kusanagi-sama wrote:
I think someone is hacking Amazon and messing with seller prices. There's no reason for something to be $1000 like that.


Nah, stuff like that is normal. Often times when there is something really rare, like out of print, people will put an incredibly high price, hoping some rich person will bite. If they don't, they typically lower their price after a couple months.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Yeah, the facts do support my opinion. Relevant information is not there, that's obvious. Other people have expressed the same thought. The fact you don't feel that way doesn't change anything, it simply means you personally don't feel that the missing information is relevant.


Nope. Never once said that. The information is relevant to the story. It's absence does not make the article misleading though.

If you read the article and thought: "Well...they don't explicitly state that this is reversible so it must not be" then that's not ANN being misleading. It is you jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:30 pm Reply with quote
So the article should've explained the situation to you all better so you wouldn't panic or jump to conclusions.

Anything else or is that it?
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
So the article should've explained the situation to you all better so you wouldn't panic or jump to conclusions.

Anything else or is that it?


Is this a subtle hint that I'm not allowed to respond to people like ikc who continue to question my position? If so, I'd appreciate that you indicate that this topic is closed to everybody, not just people who feel the way I do.

ikc - no, I didn't jump to an "unsubstantiated conclusion." I quite forthrightly admit I know and knew very little about corporate dissolutions in general and corporate dissolutions in New York state specifically. I suspect I share that state with a majority of ANN readers. It would not be unusual for anyone reading the article who didn't know much about corporate dissolutions to be lead to the conclusion that I - and other ANN readers - were lead to. Do you contend otherwise? Is it your belief that general knowledge of corporate dissolutions is comprehensive enough that I should have been able to fill in the blanks left by the article? Laughing Okay, well then I guess well just have to ATD on that.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:47 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Zac wrote:
So the article should've explained the situation to you all better so you wouldn't panic or jump to conclusions.

Anything else or is that it?


Is this a subtle hint that I'm not allowed to respond to people like ikc who continue to question my position? If so, I'd appreciate that you indicate that this topic is closed to everybody, not just people who feel the way I do.

ikc - no, I didn't jump to an "unsubstantiated conclusion." I quite forthrightly admit I know and knew very little about corporate dissolutions in general and corporate dissolutions in New York state specifically. I suspect I share that state with a majority of ANN readers. It would not be unusual for anyone reading the article who didn't know much about corporate dissolutions to be lead to the conclusion that I - and other ANN readers - were lead to. Do you contend otherwise? Is it your belief that general knowledge of corporate dissolutions is comprehensive enough that I should have been able to fill in the blanks left by the article? Laughing Okay, well then I guess well just have to ATD on that.


No, but 13 pages of people basically talking in circles, I'm trying to distill it down. In your estimation, there wasn't enough explanation in the article about exactly what dissolution is. That's what I'm taking away from this.

With you specifically this is a common thread - whenever there's news like this you frequently (usually while sounding annoyed and/or put off) say that you're expecting us to write up editorial articles explaining what the news means in the bigger picture, or effectively telling you how you should react to something. There's nothing wrong with that, but it isn't always possible (and it usually isn't - and certainly wouldn't be in this case - responsible to try and force every piece of industry news into some "big picture" thinking and what exactly this means for the anime industry yadda yadda.)

I don't handle the news but I do like to know what people are getting at, and cut through the melodrama and hyperbole.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Okay, I misunderstood your intention. But yes, you have distilled my point most clearly and succinctly. Look, I am just as weary of the circular nature of this discussion as I suspect many of you are. A very powerful argument can be made that once my basic point was laid out, I should have just remained silent while other people continue to argue against it. However, there is something intrinsic in my nature that if I have the energy and inclination, I will continue to counter posts that counter mine. I have also tried to introduced new elements to my basic point so that I'm not simply repeating the same thing over and over (even though, yes, my basic position boils down to what you have identified).
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ikillchicken



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:26 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
ikc - no, I didn't jump to an "unsubstantiated conclusion." I quite forthrightly admit I know and knew very little about corporate dissolutions in general and corporate dissolutions in New York state specifically.


Sorry man but that just doesn't make sense to me. If you admit that you know little about corporate dissolution then I don't see why would you assume it is not reversible. Wouldn't you instead conclude that you don't know and thus make no assumptions one way or another about its reversibility? If you don't know one way or the other then assuming one thing seems like jumping to a conclusion to me. (Again, I'm not trying to bust your balls over that. People jump to conclusions sometimes. It's no big deal. I just don't think the article was misleading).

Blood- wrote:
However, there is something intrinsic in my nature that if I have the energy and inclination, I will continue to counter posts that counter mine. I have also tried to introduced new elements to my basic point so that I'm not simply repeating the same thing over and over (even though, yes, my basic position boils down to what you have identified).


Yes, I don't really see a problem with what you're doing here. I can't fault you for replying to argue your point when others keep responding to you as well. Honestly, I don't really understand the hostility most people exhibit toward any sustained forum discussion. It doesn't really make sense to me. And hey, on the other hand, if you don't want to discuss this anymore then that is okay too.

Zac wrote:
With you specifically this is a common thread - whenever there's news like this you frequently (usually while sounding annoyed and/or put off) say that you're expecting us to write up editorial articles explaining what the news means in the bigger picture, or effectively telling you how you should react to something.


For what it's worth, I would also like to see that. I disagree with Blood's apparent assertion that ANN is basically required as a news outlet to do so to avoid being misleading and I fully understand what you're saying about how this isn't always possible. But yeah, where possible, editorials for news like this are great and I'd love to see more of them.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:40 pm Reply with quote
@ ikc - no, I've already explained that the preponderance of detail that ANN decided to include about corporate dissolutions had the not-entirely-unforeseeable consequence of making me and others assume the worst. To say, "well, if you admit you don't know anything about corporate dissolutions, then why not make no assumptions one way or the other" seems like a pretty tortured piece of logic to me. It's not even that I necessarily assumed that a dissolution was irreversible - it was a matter of not knowing how easy or difficult it might be. I had information zero. You have this idea that the onus was on the reader to assume reversibility was fairly straightforward, or to make no assumptions at all. That doesn't gibe with human nature. If you read three paragraphs of "....ooooo, here's all the scary stuff associated with corporate dissolution..." it's the most natural thing in the world, I think, to assume the worst. All those assumptions could have been mitigated with a simple explanation of how a dissolution can be rectified.

As for Zac's point, I kind of missed it when he first wrote it above. First, in the three years I've been at ANN, I think I have asked for more in-depth reporting exactly twice: once, when Navarre sold Funimation last year and now this instance. So I'm not sure where this "frequently" stuff comes from. Second, I'm hardly asking for some intensive "editorialization" here. I already provided an example of the small amount of information that would have probably prevented me and a number of other posters from jumping automatically to the most dire interpretation of the facts that were presented to us in the article.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:11 am Reply with quote
kusanagi-sama wrote:
I think someone is hacking Amazon and messing with seller prices. There's no reason for something to be $1000 like that.


You'd be surprised what people will pay for items willingly. But then again, some of them are just WTF moments.....
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