Forum - View topicSub translation differences?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
NExclusive
 Posts: 42 Location: New York |
|
|||||||||||
|
So this is just something I curious about, but when I'm watching an episode done by a subbing company then I watch the same episode with a different subbing company,9/10 times it's translated differently..Is this simply because some companies translate the language incorrectly or is this because words have similar meanings in the Japanese language? I would think that no matter what you say in Japanese, It would still have the same meaning in english..
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
dirkusbirkus
 Posts: 699 Location: Manchester, UK |
|
|||||||||||
As I understand it, that's completely wrong. There are a lot of japanese terms with no 'direct' english translation (not surprising considering they use three different alphabets and vastly different sentence structure) so there are many occasions where the TL has to make a judgement call and try and translate to match the context best they can. This can occasionally go horribly, horribly wrong, especially with fansub groups. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's my understanding. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Ranma87
 Posts: 170 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Translation all depends on the translators interpretation on what is being said, no two translations will ever be exactly alike.
It's alot like baking an apple pie, you can give the same recipe to 10 different people and tell them to make an apple pie, yet when you sample them its unlikely any of them will taste exactly the same. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Mr. Gruntsworthy
 Posts: 122 Location: ON, Canada |
|
|||||||||||
Yet at the same time, you know it's apple pie and it definitely tastes quite like it. Subtle differences between them but none of them wrong. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Translation depends not only on the translator having the ability to understand what is being said (both explicitly and implicitly) in the original; it also depends on the translator being able to express himself with sufficient skill in the language being translated to. To my mind, the latter is more of a problem than the former.
I'm not going to beat on fansubbers for being amateurs -- it's what they are, in every sense of the word (both good and bad). However, some of them are young enough to be a product of an era where proper grammar and spelling are foreign enough concepts to qualify for status as occult practices, and fluidity of expression is an exception to the rule. It's hardly surprising that translations sometimes wobble from good to bad and back again. What's more interesting is that the official subbers don't do much better. I'm so used to gritting my teeth and sitting through another film with slapdash subtitles, it hardly seems unusual to me anymore. Official or fansub, I don't think I have ever seen an anime where I haven't, at some point or another, felt that the translators made an elementary-level mistake. Often, it feels like the problem isn't a lack of skill, but a lack of effort. It feels like they're hardly even trying. Of course, on occasion, you come across some excusable situations. When a Japanese-speaking character suddenly starts speaking French and referring to Parisian geography (e.g. School Days), it's understandable if the translator can't get every nuance across. But, again, how hard could it be to find someone who does speak French? - abunai |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Ranma87
Posts: 170 |
|
|||||||||||
|
The main selling point of any anime DVD/Bluray in the US is the dub, most publishers only include subtitles because they have to as a minority of the fanbase demands subtitles and the original Japanese track.
Many many times I have seen subtitles falling flat on DVD's or being overall worse than the fansubs because they were either, 1) Rushed in house. 2) Contracted out and bulk translated, by someone who didn't even watch the show. The subtitles on the Ranma 1/2 sets are by far the worst I've ever seen, I think they just sent the scripts to a translation company. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
|
|||||||||||
It is hard to make that argument with the increasing amount of sub-only anime coming out of pretty much every company other than FUNimation. Prior to DVD, some series had separate sub and dub releases on VHS (and after if you count Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura) so clearly the sub version had a viable market even back then; it wouldn't be worth it for a minority of a niche market surely? |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
|
|||||||||||
You're completely disregarding the fact that dubs need scripts to work off of, and those scripts come from translations of the original. Whether or not it's translated by the original production company or by a studio here, things will still be lost in a dub as well, perhaps more if you try to re-write it to flow more naturally in English. And with dubs, you normally only see one shot at a script, unless it's an older title that's seen many English audio tracks. Aside from subtitle translations, you have very little to compare it to on its own merit. You're also likely underestimating the fanbase that prefers original Japanese audio on their DVDs. If I bought a DVD of any foreign film, I'd want the original audio to be included. There's a good reason why subtitle tracks aren't just dubtitles all the time, or for those who are hard of hearing. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
garfield15
 Posts: 1516 |
|
|||||||||||
Yes because a dub-only DVD will sell so much better. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Ranma87
Posts: 170 |
|
|||||||||||
Dub only dvd's = medicore sales Sub only dvd's = mediocre sales Dub+Sub dvd's = highest sales potential because it pleases both dub and sub watchers. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
|
|||||||||||
|
Can we for once keep this just about subtitles, and not about sub vs. dub vs. subbed anime is worthless? I'm looking at you, Ranma87.
Also, it's pretty unlikely that you'd see subs from two different subbing companies, except for shows like Lost Universe that were originally released by Company A and then re-licensed, re-translated, and re-released by Company B. It's more likely to see subs from 2 or more fansub groups and/or official subs.
I see both types of subs has having their positives and negatives: Fansubs - Positives: (possibly) more dedication to that particular show if the above is true, subs will be well-written and suited to the characters, contexts, etc. avoid extreme over-localization, aside from some groups that over-localize just to troll people More thorough translation of onscreen text Negatives: More mishearings, guesslations, or plain fabrications More technical errors (spelling, grammar, usage) In some cases -- under-localization, inundation with translation notes, overliteral/awkward writing that kills the energy of the show by being slavishly faithful to the spoken Japanese. (sometimes) deliberate jokesubs, extraneous comments, or trolling. Care more about being "aesthetic" or "fitting the anime" than about being readable. Willing to clutter the screen with flashy but unnecessary content. Wide range of quality, ranging from 1-10 on a 10-point scale. Official subs Positives: Professionally done by qualified individuals Have access to recording scripts and can get input from Japanese creators/producers, thus few/no mishearings/guesslations Relatively few technical errors Adequately localized for non-hardcore audiences Designed for readability on any screen from almost any distance No unprofessional comments/jokes Narrower range of quality - a few outliers aside, pro subs will land between 6 and 9 on the 10-point scale. Negatives: Placement/styling can be excessive beyond what's needed for readability; overlarge subs can force simplification of content Overlocalization (sometimes - obviously everyone has differing opinions on what constitutes acceptable localization) Lack of attention/formatting for onscreen text Lack of creativity/"spirit" in the writing -- subs can be accurately translated and free of technical errors, but still feel stilted or inappropriate for the content. As Ranma87 alleges, this may extend to translators only working from scripts and not actually seeing the content. (But then again, how would they translate onscreen text at all, in that situation?) |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
zgripţuroicǎ
 Posts: 140 Location: Newburgh, NY |
|
|||||||||||
|
As has been said, translation is not an exact science. Taking something from one language and putting it in another can be rather tricky. Simple example: I cannot read Les Misérables in English translation having seen the original French, I disagree with the translation so much. This is why even books that have existed since antiquity still see revised translations published today. When translating something, aside from considering which words would best correspond to the original in your target language, one must consider how it would sound in the target language. To use another example from French, if someone in a show I was translating (hypothetical, I'm not a pro translator) said "Let's go." to his friends, I've got a couple of options. "Laissons nous aller." gives an exact translation, but sounds awkward to me. "Allons-y." gives roughly the same meaning, but might be too formal for the situation. "On y va." also gives roughly the same meaning, but could be too informal for the situation.
From a simple two word sentence, one can arrive at three different outcomes at the least for this example. You can imagine from this how imprecise it is translating for complex sentences in a way that satisfies everyone, and if it's something that includes slang words or wordplays and puns, you can probably guess how difficult it becomes to get it "exactly" right. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
|
|||||||||||
|
I once took a course on cross-cultural survey design where the issue of writing comparable questionnaires for use in different societies is obviously critical. One key method to examine comparability was to use two translators, one translating from the source to the target language, and another translating the resulting target questionnaire back into the source. Comparing the original with the retranslated result often uncovers important differences in meaning.
I'm sure fansub groups don't engage in this practice; usually they're hard pressed to find even one competent translator. But what about professionals? Do they ever engage in such "two-way" translations before releasing a DVD?
I so appreciate translators who are proficient in both languages. As an example, I'd point to Quarkboy's work on "Tatami Galaxy" currently being simulcasted by Funimation. Elsewhere he reported that a typical episode of this show runs about 4,500 words, compared with 1,500-2,000 for a typical anime episode. Despite the torrent of language in this show, his subtitles are routinely literate and grammatical. Unfortunately the trends abunai points to concerning the decline of vocabulary and grammar skills makes people like Quarkboy stand out all the more. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Kimiko_0
 Posts: 1796 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
|
|||||||||||
|
Some of the larger fansub groups have a second translator do proofreading/quality checking for the first, main translator. I haven't seen this practice in official subs yet, and plenty of cases where even simple proofwatching would have helped prevent some obvious translation mistakes. I guess hiring two people would make things too expensive.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
|
|||||||||||
I aggree with this. I prefer subs, but I have to admit that when watching anime (or other foreign language media), one part of my brain is tasked with translating the words on screen into something more accurate (where I'm able to figure the original meaning), more eloquent and succinct, and more appropriate to the dramatic tone of the scene. I'm also bugged by retention of Japanese words in the subtitles, including but not limited to honorifics. Unless the original term is specifically relevant to the scene, just call people "Mr" and "Ms". It's supposed to be a translation, isn't it? Ideally, a rewriting stage would follow the translation stage for anime subs, but that would cost money, and there's the question of how a person with poor writing skills will recognise a person with superior skills, or even see the need for one. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group