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Hey, Answerman! - Netflix Violation


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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1454

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 pm Reply with quote
For the "no need to watch old shows", no there is still some classics in there. Let me look over at my collection for a reference:
-Escaflowne (still a classic)
-CLAMP titles like Cardcaptor Sakura and Magic Knight Rayearth
-Yuu Watase titles like Fushigi Yuugi and Ceres (well, Ceres JUST came out in 2000, but still appears to look 'old')
-Cowboy Bebop
-Trigun
-Evangelion
-Sailor Moon
-Dragonball Z (well, it has been rejuvinated, but still old)
So these are all considered "bad" to newer anime viewers? That makes me feel old, or that many new "kids" of today don't bother looking for these "old" shows (too old for them, maybe?) My suggestions may not be everyones' cup of tea, but just a list to show that old shows can still hold up.

I've also noticed that in "favorite anime" threads on forums, most of them are just BRAND new or newish titles. Unless people base their lists off what they like the best NOW, it looks like all anyone ever watches is new stuff. Sort of sad for me. Everytime I see people post some of the few shows I listed above, I think of them as an "older" fan like me, who watched these back when they first came out.

As for the Netflix thing, it's a great way to discover new shows! I finally ended up seeing what "the whole Hetalia" thing was on there and enjoyed it. Now I own the first series and the movie. If I don't like it or found the show just 'ok' then I know it's not a purchase. However, I find that new shows don't really pop up on there as often. I check every week on here for new streaming, and every week I see "Netflix: Nothing new". Oh well, I guess I should still go through what's in my queue, but new stuff would be nice too.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3168
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:20 pm Reply with quote
One dividing line in "why watch old stuff" is whether someone is an "anime fan", or someone is a "fan of genre X that is represented in anime".

Say someone is an SF fan. And while you've got an ongoing SF reading habit, you like movie/series as well ... and so have already watched a gamut of series from Battlestar Galactica and Firefly through to Doctor Who and Lexx.

Why in the world would you limit yourself to the SF anime series that have been produced in the past five years, when there is (to quote selectively from a top ten SF anime list put together in 2007), Akira, Serial Experiments Lain, Scrapped Princess, Last Exile, Cowboy Bebop, Planetes and Ghost in the Shell?
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5690

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote
I'll be the first one to say, even though I really do enjoy older anime, some of the older anime does not age that well and in modern times, can be considered "weird" to newer fans.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen blank stares from (seemingly) new anime fans when I ask them if they watch older anime or heard of older shows.

Oddly enough, most of the newer anime fans I've spoken to have never heard of shows such as Ranma 1/2, Evangelion or even Dragon Ball Z. I was once told old shows are "boring" by this anime fan and according to this kid (I say kid loosely, as I am thinking he might have been 18 or so, not sure) any new anime produced after 2007 is "way too old" for him to watch.

Sometimes it's not always a great feeling to hear that old shows aren't being watched because some of the newer fans dislike merely the vintage aspect, but then again, not every modern day anime is master piece and some new shows are just plain horrid.

Don't get me wrong, I liked watching Slayers when I first saw this series back in the day, but as mentioned in Answerman, the show was terrible though. One dimensional characters (that often fit anime stereotypes of that era) jokes that did not hold up that well in modern day times and the series itself was often hard to take really seriously.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4206

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:44 pm Reply with quote
I'm one of the "new fans" into the fandom, having entered it in like 2009-2010, but I can like older shows just as much as new ones. I first entered the fandom when I was a tvtropes lurker, so I learned a lot about the "classics" like Evangelion and Bebop before I learned much about the modern mainstays like OP and Bleach. I've never hated "old shit" like so many of my contemporaries.

The fact that that the first anime I ever watched was G Gundam might have had somethig to do with it.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5577
Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:59 pm Reply with quote
If we're talking differences in tastes between older/newer fans, what about the inverse of the situation discussed in the column -- the "old guard" fans that refuse to watch anything made after Year X because it's all too flashy/glitzy or full of moe or whatever? (As if moe characters and concepts didn't exist before 2002 or so.) They're just as guilty of closed-minded insularity as the new fans who think someone hit a magical switch in 2000 or some other year that suddenly increased the quality of everything. There have certainly been gradual advances in animation quality, but things like writing and storytelling quality don't suddenly shift when decades turn over.

Though I have to say, newer fans are far more guilty of Average Mainstream Consumer "this doesn't completely fill my TV screen, so I don't like it" Syndrome when it comes to older 4:3 anime. Portable DVD player and borrowed laptops aside, I watch everything on 4:3 screens, and I've never once thought, "This show is 16:9, I don't feel like watching it."
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:04 pm Reply with quote
I just have to wonder if the apprehension of older anime is a generation and age thing. I've noticed that the younger the anime fan is, the more ageist and cocky they seem to be. They refuse to give the proper respect to the older stuff that brought them their favorites into the forefront.

On another forum that I go to, a guy asked for fantasy anime recommendations, with him proclaiming that he didn't want to look at older anime cause "it was sh**." Alot of folks suggested that he look into Record of Lodoss War given that anime is the benchmark of Fantasy Anime.

The ensuing shitstorm almost resulted in a mass ban and threats of legal action.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4206

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Please tell me there are archives of that thread.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Please tell me there are archives of that thread.


The thread got deleted by the mods there.
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1052

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Good points raised by everybody re: "old anime", but I have to say that it makes me SO sad when my younger friends refuse to watch a show or read a manga because it "looks old" or has a "retro style." While I do love the currently-stylish anime aesthetics, I think that a lot of older anime is absolutely beautiful to look at. Certainly anime has progressed in a lot of fields, but nobody is drawing manga that looks like 90s-era CLAMP or animating TV shows with Haruhiko Mikimoto designs anymore. (Well, except Tytania, and without the hand-painted cel animation, the designs there just lack the Macross and Orguss luster!) I'm so confused as to why people don't want to expose themselves to such pretty artwork... I really feel like they're missing out.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4032

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:18 pm Reply with quote
Anime is great in you have 40+ shows a season to choose from. So in that regard, no, there's no huge reason you should have to go back to watch older stuff. Unless you're on a nostalgia binge or want to find shows of a specific genre (i.e. watching all the sci-fi anime you can, so you grab stuff from now back to the 60s) Or you just want to check out some shows you've heard about.

You still shouldn't dismiss it on the grounds that it's old, though. But at the same time, just because it's old doesn't make it untouchable. As much as Dragonball Z is a classic, I feel it's been outclassed by just about every modern shounen today. I can still respect it, though, and what it's done for the anime industry.

Likewise people who always claim the original Pocket Monsters was the best. No.. no it's really not. Diamond & Pearl, Best Wishes, and even Advanced Generation run circles around it in terms of pacing, characterization, and story.

And let's be honest, most of Bebop's flare comes from the fact it was one of the first 'adult anime' you watched. You were a little kid who grew up on DBZ and other Toonami stuff, then Adult Swim premiers and suddenly "Wow, cool adult anime.. with more blood and action! I've never seen anything like this before"

But all those revolve around nostalgia. And as we all know, you can't argue against someone's nostalgia. It's an argument you can't win.

But I feel it's important understand the roots and trends in anime. To see how things have evolved. To see how magical girl anime evolved from Sally the Witch to Cutey Honey to Sailor Moon to the modern magical girl, for example. Less you look like one of those tools who insist "Power Rangers ripped off Voltron" without doing an ounce of research.

Zalis116 wrote:
If we're talking differences in tastes between older/newer fans, what about the inverse of the situation discussed in the column -- the "old guard" fans that refuse to watch anything made after Year X because it's all too flashy/glitzy or full of moe or whatever? (As if moe characters and concepts didn't exist before 2002 or so.) They're just as guilty of closed-minded insularity as the new fans who think someone hit a magical switch in 2000 or some other year that suddenly increased the quality of everything. There have certainly been gradual advances in animation quality, but things like writing and storytelling quality don't suddenly shift when decades turn over.


I think it's worse when people know of it but have some kind of doublestandard ("Azumanga Daioh is totally different than Lucky Star... honest! It's not a 4koma slice-of-life show about girls, really!")

Quote:
Though I have to say, newer fans are far more guilty of Average Mainstream Consumer "this doesn't completely fill my TV screen, so I don't like it" Syndrome when it comes to older 4:3 anime. Portable DVD player and borrowed laptops aside, I watch everything on 4:3 screens, and I've never once thought, "This show is 16:9, I don't feel like watching it."


I find myself guilty of this sometimes when it comes to fansubs. I watched a hardsubbed AVI of an older show one time and caught myself saying "Ew, hardsubs? AVI?" How fickle we've become. MKV Softsubbed or bust I suppose.


Last edited by TitanXL on Fri May 11, 2012 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 976

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:18 pm Reply with quote
I am going to have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Tenchi Muyo. Honestly there has not been a harem since that has done the genre better. Tenchi Muyo has the most character development and depth I have seen amongst the girls, throws in some fairly interesting complex elements like political intrigue and some more philosophical issues with the whole can the gods create a being greater than themselves. The show took controvesial topics and presented them in such a way as to make people not bat an eye, incest anyone. Today you make a show and they are step siblings and people have an aneurism, Aeka and Yosho were siblings going to be married, and Tenchi and Aeka/Sasami are nephew and grand aunt. Not to mention Tenchi actually did what a harem is supposed to do, left you guessing as to who would win, there are honestly only a couple of anime shows where I don't know the pairing from the opening intro. And going by the name Tenchi is one of the few shows that actually is a harem, with a harem ending (if you take into account secondary source or go with gxp).

I love Infinite Stratos, To Love Ru, High School DxD, and Zombie Desu, as I think these are the shows who come the closest to emulating a true harem like Tenchi, but other than updated art style I don't think they are any better.

And for God's Sake, terrible animation, really, I consider terrible animation to be something like crayon shin chan, older anime do not look bad, its just a different art style.

I mean your comments are rather off putting, to tell you the truth. What if I said astro boy, that's real garbage or any number of classic works. You have to respect works for what they did to further the medium and look at them in their context. I mean its like saying, stupid vikings using swords and axes, we have guns and missiles, because clearly these are more effective means. A finely crafted sword is no less a master piece of weaponry. I don't punish something in the past for something that was not possible. Epic of Gilgamesh is no lesser a work than say War and Peace. Fans of literary work could appreciate this, not your twilight readers but fans of literature.

Last point, Crest of the Stars says hi. I don't know in what context you meant there has not been anything LoGH, but other than length that is fairly on point. Or I don't know, say Gundam, you know you ever watched Gundam before.

And Masion Ikkoku its been done as well, not exactly identical but close enough; in fact ever show probably has several shows that they can be compared to.
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ShanaFan852



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:20 pm Reply with quote
The thing that really gets me with older titles and new fans is how many of them are completely unaware of many of them. This can also lead to many finding many newer shows to be completely ground-breaking and original, despite the fact many of those elements may have already been done before, thus not making them as ground-breaking and original as they think. Like there have been a few magical girl shows with dark tones years before Madoka ever premiered.

It's kinda ironic for these words to come from me as I entered the anime fandom around November 2008. I had seen many things on Toonami, Kids WB, and Cartoon Network (Around 20 different anime) beforehand, but wasn't really "into" it until I got addicted to Bleach, a show I had heard a bit about while I was still crying over Toonami being gone.

There are still many older shows I need to get around to watching such as Samurai Champloo, Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and more.

I do know of plenty of these older titles, and I am currently watching some like The Slayers and Ai Yori Aoshi (A show I didn't hear about until I learned of the Anime Classics re-release). Many of these are definitely still fairly good by today's standards.

I feel many new fans are missing out on many shows by refusing to watch pre-2007 stuff. I mean seriously there's Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, and more.
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:29 pm Reply with quote
It makes me wonder if newer fans does the same thing with other mediums or is it just an anime thing? Older books, live-action, music, etc. Seems strange to me if one just sticks to new when released shows and won't even touch a two year old show. I like old and new alike as long as its something I'm interested in.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3149
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:50 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
. This can also lead to many finding many newer shows to be completely ground-breaking and original, despite the fact many of those elements may have already been done before, thus not making them as ground-breaking and original as they think. Like there have been a few magical girl shows with dark tones years before Madoka ever premiered.


Well like NBC used to say for the summer reruns "If you haven't seen it is new to you".

ShanaFan852 wrote:

It's kinda ironic for these words to come from me as I entered the anime fandom around November 2008. I had seen many things on Toonami, Kids WB, and Cartoon Network (Around 20 different anime) beforehand, but wasn't really "into" it until I got addicted to Bleach, a show I had heard a bit about while I was still crying over Toonami being gone.

There are still many older shows I need to get around to watching such as Samurai Champloo, Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and more.


In a way I am in the same bought but slightly different. If you want to be real technical I got the anime bug back in 96 before I knew it was anime but that is stretching it a bit. I got the proper "bite" around April 2008.

ShanaFan852 wrote:

I do know of plenty of these older titles, and I am currently watching some like The Slayers and Ai Yori Aoshi (A show I didn't hear about until I learned of the Anime Classics re-release). Many of these are definitely still fairly good by today's standards.

I feel many new fans are missing out on many shows by refusing to watch pre-2007 stuff. I mean seriously there's Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, and more.


People do miss out with older titles sometimes, but I think someone has to be in the right mind set to want to see older titles. I think that type of mind set does not apply just to anime but really any form of entertainment. I do not think most casual fans are going to want to go and watch the older titles if anime is just something they watch on the weekends or when they have time to watch. I also you have to that "spark" moment when maybe you just catch a glimpse of an older title or when it gets talked about enough that you say "I hear a lot of good things, maybe I should give it a shot".
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Gilles Poitras



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 359
Location: Oakland California

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:53 pm Reply with quote
A friend avoided older titles on the grounds that he only wanted high quality graphics as well as good stories.

I bought him the Gundam movie trilogy from the early 1980s.

He called me a few days later and raved about how much he loved the story and characters.

When I mentioned the quality of the graphics he commented that the quality back then was about the same as today's US TV animation quality.

Next I get him to watch the Ashita no Jo movie, released in the US as Champion Joe.
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