Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Netflix Violation
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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When Evangelion had the budget it had amazing animation. Evangelion rarely had the budget and its animation is mainly made up with a ton of tricks to try to finish the series with the budget they had. That's one reason why I rarely take animation into consideration when I talk about anime quality, I feel like more often than not I am complimenting their budget. |
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dandelion_rose
 Posts: 657 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
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I just watched Kite today, after wanting to watch it for years. The only thing I kept thinking about is that this is an anime that isn't likely to be produced in today's atmosphere -- probably because censorship laws have heightened in Japan, and probably because the OAV market isn't the same as it used to be.
I'm also a Nineties anime fan, and I'm not very happy with Answerman's response. I've never felt that Slayers was that good even when it first came out in the Nineties, but it was a very lovable series. On the other hand, there are some really strong classics from the Nineties that will probably be on the list of 'Must Watch' for years to come. I do feel that plenty of post-2000s anime or manga are just repeating the formula of stuff that genuinely felt refreshing in the 90s, and that while they may be good or enjoyable, they're not able to give me that sense of newness, of really challenging boundaries and breaking new ground. (The only thing that's really impressed me recently is Galaxy Angel, and that's because I thought it was amazingly good at being what it aimed to be: silly fluff. But I'm biased.) It might just be that I'm an older person now and thus much harder to impress, and a much younger person then, though. |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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Do you have actual examples of this, or is this just "gut instinct"
Your definition of "recent" might need some clarification as well. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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Huh. Evangelion's historical impact has always gone unquestioned in my mind --- it's an enormously influential media franchise, and its animation has always been mentioned favorably in my experience (especially considering it was created by Gainax, a studio renowned for the quality of its animation). You can read through the Wikipedia article to get a sense for its impact on the anime industry and how it inspired a number of subsequent works, though I didn't see any specific mentions regarding the critical quality of its actual animation. I realize that OVAs aren't as common anymore, which is partially why I was puzzled at your declaration that the best OVA animation of the day is better than the best of the past. And on that point, I think we may be comparing old and new animation differently. Like I mentioned in my first post, I do think a lot of modern anime is more visually polished than older anime, largely thanks to the move to and subsequent mastery of digital animation --- but it's in the technical quality of the animation itself (as far as anatomy, motion, perspective and difficulty/creativity of the sequence) in which I feel that older animation is generally better. In that sense, when I compare the actual hand-drawn character animations between new and old, I personally don't find the examples you mentioned to be superior to older works (though I will say that Guilty Crown is really polished for what it tries to accomplish). In the Metal Fighter Miku op sequence for example, the sequence where the characters leap off the platform in tandem with one another and link hands mid-flight is an enormously challenging/creative scene to render in hand-drawn animation that I don't often see attempted in modern anime. On another related point, if you're coming from the perspective where you compare CGI animation of the day to hand-drawn animation in the past, then you'd also be approaching the comparison differently than I do, since I wouldn't compare CGI graphics to 2D animation as I consider them to be different visual mediums (and because I still find the use of CGI graphics to be visually distracting). That said, I won't say absolutely that the best general animation of yesteryear always out-classes animation of the modern day, but in the more general sense I do think that many series these days don't require the same level of bombastic and crazy sequences seen in ages past, which makes me a bit more favorable to viewing the animation skill of older works as more impressive. On a final note, I think it's funny how you mentioned an 'argument' in your post. Is that what you're looking for?  You just seem a bit aggravated in your posts is all. 
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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What in the world are you talking about? My post was specifically about animation quality, not Evangelion's importance in anime history, which is completely and totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Also, GAINAX is not "a studio known for the quality of its animation". It is a studio known for the quality of the bounce it put on its female characters, and for doing more with less than anyone but Ikuhara Kunio. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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Hmmm. Are you a troll? Or are you just naturally argumentative? If you want to keep up with the affrontive disposition, you can continue arguing by yourself, I don't mind.
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dandelion_rose
Posts: 657 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
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Since I began my paragraph with 'I feel' and later said that 'they're not able to give me that sense of newness, of really challenging boundaries and breaking new ground', I'm clearly pointing to my personal taste and reactions. But if you want me to further elaborate, when something like Kite came about in the Nineties, there was this sense that it was really challenging what animation could and could not do. I'm not sure if it was just the distribution of material -- there could have been some equally dark material produced by an animation company elsewhere but never got around -- but Kite got a lot of cult popularity, a parody of it even showed up in a Gwen Stefani / No Doubt music video. The same thing with shows like La Blue Girl or Urotsukidoji, stuff I haven't touched but which got plenty of notoriety. It was the presence of this material that made people think "animation isn't always for kids". There's probably a number of dark anime somewhere -- I've read the Monster manga (admittedly, not very recent) -- but the novelty has worn off. Moving on to stuff that are still popular now, like Evangelion and FLCL -- again, when Evangelion first emerged during the Nineties, the impact it had on the anime industry (and animation as a whole) was tremendous. Evangelion still gets plenty of fans, but I don't know if they're experiencing it the way I felt as a teenager growing up in the Nineties, when you had all these doomsday cults and people genuinely felt that the world could end by 2000. I don't really get the same 'feel' from anime post-2000s. I can watch something like Madoka Magica and say that it's good, or Samurai Champloo and say that it's good, but it doesn't have that effect on me the way anime had when I was a teen growing up in the Nineties. There's no more sense of 'this is anime -- it's like nothing you've ever seen before'. It could be my age, it could be that I haven't really given recent anime a chance, it could be a change in media consumption and media distribution. You could call it gut instinct, if you like to call it that way, but I just prefer to call it personal taste. As for Galaxy Angel -- I think the way I phrased it wasn't clear -- I watched almost the entire four seasons Galaxy Angel recently, and I really liked it. I also think it's pretty well-written and directed for a fluffy comedy. It isn't very new, but it's post-2000. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Don't tone troll me, please. Its irritating. Especially when you use it dodge arguments.
Thank you for reminding me why the 90s sucked. See also: US comics of the same period. Yuck. Why did my generation have such horrible taste as teenagers? |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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AHHAHAHA I'm trolling you? As if your brusque temperament, demeaning incredulousness, turn-around tactics and persistent desire to argue random points aren't the telltale signs of a troll? Touche, monsieur troll, touche.
I'm crossing this bridge now, and you're more than welcome to go back underneath it.
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dandelion_rose
Posts: 657 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
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On the subject of US comics, when I said that I was an anime fan in the 90s, people though I was kind of nerdy in the 'collecting US comics' way, but now when I use Hatsune Miku as my laptop wallpaper people get the impression that I'm some kind of pseudo-paedophile. I don't blame them for getting that impression, during the Noughties you couldn't really walk into an anime store full of figurines without feeling a little dirty. Maybe this decade will show some trend changes. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I think it goes across the board. For my daughter, anything older than one year is old news, and two years it is ancient. And that is for music. |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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Not gonna get into the whole argument about Eva and stuff, but you did avoid the topic at hand when you were talking to him, and acted like he was stupid and didn't know what Evangelion was. A typical troll tactic is to "Teach people about the thing you're talking about" to someone, as a way of trying to say they're stupid and not worth arguing with. So I felt you were trolling more than Fencedude was, for sure. |
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bglassbrook
 Posts: 1243 Location: Gaithersburg, MD |
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Agree with the above. However, for all those saying older shows are harder to come by, I think that points out one of the more important reasons people shouldn't limit themselves to the newer fare. Better to experience them now, while harder to come by, than later when it becomes all but impossible. Having watched Love Hina last year (or year before) I am not sure why all the production value hate. Maybe I'm just more tolerant of older shows looking old, but I really cannot recall anything worthy of such vitriol. But this was my greatest take-away from the article...
I whole-heartedly support Brian's campaign to throw Alvin in the blender, Simon in the microwave, and spray Theodore down with water before electrocuting him. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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actually ova's are picking back up quite well in japan with to love ru having 5 ova's, higurashi having 8 "rei and kira", then all newer anime always having a OAD to sell them means there is still a market for them. I remember the school days that are hard to come by packing them with limited edition of the ps2 version and one with the manga. Those are next to impossible to find even in ripped format. Rambling aside I'm an older anime fan from the early 90's so complaining about artwork isn't a big deal for more nor is animation quality from that decade if anything it was the digital transition that hurt my eyes the most. I still look back on evangelion, flcl, card captor sakura, Berserk: Kenpū Denki anime shown what good hand drawn anime looked like before the transition in the early turn of the century. It took anime nearly 6 to 7 years to catch up and use that technology to make decent looking series. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Nothing to do with how it looks (it looks perfectly adequate for a relatively early digital production), and everything to do with it being a terrible adaption. I'm going to guess you haven't read the manga. The manga's no great shakes either, honestly, but its tons better than the anime. |
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