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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:14 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:

Hmm. Is it any wonder I think the TV series is a masterpiece? So many details and deep motivations, overlaying each other in an intricate plot - and so many things that aren't what they seem to be.


I definately agree with you there, but some of the plot holes really bugged me. Not that I don't know every series has plot holes, out of necessisty, but spoiler[for instance, the whole transmitter issuse with Junior. He takes it out of himself and then procedes to smash it. Certainly he knows of the capabilities of the British Library/Dokusensha, and would know they would be tracking both him and the helicopter. Why not simply leave it to be destroyed with the chopper? Why go to Yumiko's parents house? I know her records were destroyed in the fire, but Junior certainly had no problem finding them. Why would Yumiko simply allow Anita to throw the book into the chopper fire? Certainly, as she had said before, she was unsure if it would be susceptible to fire, so why not make sure it was destroyed? I also don't see why Anita still has the memory of the fire at the British Library. I suppose that a traumatic experience like that may be able to survive her new memories, or it's possible Dokusensha left them there because they anticipated needing her to go up against Yumiko, and wanted Anita to hate her. ]

I'm just being nitpicky I suppose, and I certainly don't want to take away from how good I think this series is.
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abunai
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Joined: 05 Mar 2004
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Location: 露命
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:35 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
I'm just being nitpicky I suppose, and I certainly don't want to take away from how good I think this series is.


Well, some of the points you raise are based on the presumption that the characters will always make the wisest decision, given the information they have. That is manifestly not the case in real life. People make mistakes - and especially so when they are young or their emotional equilibrium has been disturbed. Certainly, both of these factors apply to Junior. In my opinion, the fact that the characters make mistakes along the way enhances the quality of the storytelling.

As for spoiler[ the whole false-memory thing, let me make an hypothesis... the false memories that the Library / Dokusensha can supply people with are somehow an overlay, hiding but not totally erasing the old memories - which may then emerge under proper stimulus, albeit in a dreamlike form. This is different from Gentleman's power, which actually makes a change in the universe - and that change becomes the way things have always been.]

- abunai
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:59 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:

Well, some of the points you raise are based on the presumption that the characters will always make the wisest decision, given the information they have. That is manifestly not the case in real life.


True, I suppose it seems worse since in 26 eps, you see over a year of series time go by, so you see these mistakes occuring in what appears to be a very short amount of time, while it is actually not.

Although while I can forgive many of Junior's mistakes, I do find it odd how many Yumiko and the 3 sisters make. After all, the former being a British Library Special Forces Agent, certainly would have been under such pressures before. spoiler[I knew immediately after the books were set on fire that she would have to run out there. I hoped that her experience as an agent would tell her it was nothing more than a trap, yet she let her love of books override her brain]The latter, working on their share of tough cases for Dokusensha, I would also have thought would have shown restraint in some manners. But given the weaknesses that they were revealed to have, I suppose it's not a big surprise. I don't expect them to be perfect. Like you said, it enhances the storytelling. It just bothered me a bit that they would fall for so many obvious traps.

Like I said though, it's not meant to take anything away from the series.

I agree with your hypothesis, however I wonder why spoiler[Maggie nor Michelle ever seem to remember anything outside of the false memories, when I certainly thought that perhaps finding out that their past was a lie might have triggered something, if only a memory of the genetic enhancement that was done to them.]
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:05 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
I agree with your hypothesis, however I wonder why spoiler[Maggie nor Michelle ever seem to remember anything outside of the false memories, when I certainly thought that perhaps finding out that their past was a lie might have triggered something, if only a memory of the genetic enhancement that was done to them.]

In my interpretation, spoiler[Maggie and Michelle were created (cloned) by Dokusensha after Anita, who was created by British Library. Therefore, they do not have the memory about the destruction of British Library by Yomiko. How Dokusensha acquired Yomiko's gene was not explained, but it is not hard either, considering if they could clone human and manipulate memories it's relatively simple to extract DNA from Yomiko's belongings. Apparently, Michelle bears more genetic element from Yomiko than her "sisters." Maggie may share some similarities with that quiet but very powerful paper user "hulk" (he might have been a clone as well).]
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:56 pm Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:

In my interpretation, spoiler[Maggie and Michelle were created (cloned) by Dokusensha after Anita, who was created by British Library. Therefore, they do not have the memory about the destruction of British Library by Yomiko. How Dokusensha acquired Yomiko's gene was not explained, but it is not hard either, considering if they could clone human and manipulate memories it's relatively simple to extract DNA from Yomiko's belongings. Apparently, Michelle bears more genetic element from Yomiko than her "sisters." Maggie may share some similarities with that quiet but very powerful paper user "hulk" (he might have been a clone as well).]


Unless the version I saw was extremely poor in accuracy.. spoiler[Maggie and Michelle were not cloned, rather they were simply people that Dokusensha abducted and genetically enhanced to give them the ability to be paper users. So they would have memories from before they were "modified", but naturally these would not include the destruction of the British Library. I simply figure that if Anita remembers the fire, even if it is only because of the trauma it caused her, I would have thought Michelle and Maggie would remember something. Since the only memory Anita has is of a traumatic experience, I thought perhaps they would remember, if nothing more, something to do with their genetic manipulation once they found out the truth.]
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Twilight Dragon



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Archangel
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Thats resenubol. That sounds like it would fit right in the story.
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Innotech



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:58 pm Reply with quote
extremely awesome OVA with a very hot main character. I dont know about you, but being the intellectual type, I like my girls smart and a bit dorky and if they wear glasses, all the cuter Embarassed
Needless to say I own the ROD OVA and am now 3 volumes into a very good followup ROD TV series. I cant wait for vol 4 to come out!
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:30 pm Reply with quote
Innotech wrote:
extremely awesome OVA with a very hot main character. I don't know about you, but being the intellectual type, I like my girls smart and a bit dorky and if they wear glasses, all the cuter Embarassed


Exclamation Everybody! Observe, please! This is a rare opportunity to see genuine "fanboy mode" in action.

Never mind the qualities of the story or the animation. What anime really boils down to is whether the main female character turns you on or not. It's all that really matters. Wink

She is cute, though. Smile

- abunai
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Innotech



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:33 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
Innotech wrote:
extremely awesome OVA with a very hot main character. I don't know about you, but being the intellectual type, I like my girls smart and a bit dorky and if they wear glasses, all the cuter Embarassed


Exclamation Everybody! Observe, please! This is a rare opportunity to see genuine "fanboy mode" in action.

Never mind the qualities of the story or the animation. What anime really boils down to is whether the main female character turns you on or not. It's all that really matters. Wink

She is cute, though. Smile

- abunai


lol. NO, actually my favorite animes have more to do with a good sense of story and atmosphere and character development than characters that turn me on, although thats a bonus. For example, my top 3 favorite animes are: Haibane Renmei, Kinos Journey, and Saikano. HOwever calling me an anime fanboy wouldnt be too far off the mark. and yes, Yomiko is really cute
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Jkid



Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 197
Location: Capitol Heights ,MD
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:04 am Reply with quote
Hmm, I didn't expect this topic to be like this
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:52 am Reply with quote
Jkid wrote:
Hmm, I didn't expect this topic to be like this

This thread is in Spanish when you're not looking.

-abunai
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:33 am Reply with quote
abunai wrote:

This thread is in Spanish when you're not looking.


That's funny.. it looks like German to me.
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:47 am Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
abunai wrote:

This thread is in Spanish when you're not looking.


That's funny.. it looks like German to me.


Ach! You are right. No, wait, now it's in French... Shocked

- abunai
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Twilight Dragon



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Archangel
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Its get ing me lost on the Launge area.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:08 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:

Ach! You are right. No, wait, now it's in French... Shocked


vraiment? Je ne vois pas le français.
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