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What is it about Yaoi that's so appealing? Topic 4 fangirls


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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Finally there are yaoi fangirls that can share thier own experience Cool. It's interesting.
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nicoruchan



Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Hi hi~ Another yaoi fangirl here to share my views Anime smile

If I had to pick one thing that hooks me into yaoi it's the unattainability of it all. Boy x boy relationships are something that girls can never truly experiance, whether it's platonic or yaoi. Any other type of relationship could conciveably be experianced (no matter how random or angsty it is) other than this one.

Also, shonen-ai and yaoi relationships are portrayed as being very pure and honest, the ideal love. This could very well be females imposing their idea of perfect love on yaoi boys because, if it's portrayed in normal shoujo it seems rather unrealistic due to the fact that most times we find this unattainable in real life. I read some yaoi manga and afterwards think, ah so this is what pure love between two people is.

Obviously, having lots of hot/pretty boys doesn't hurt Wink

[sorry if this is too OT and if so please ignore]
Any boys who like yuri out there, why to you like it? A lot of yuri I've read seems to be geared more towards girls than boys.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:40 am Reply with quote
At Comic-Con this summer Central Park Media's panel was pretty well devoted to manga & the launch of Be Beautiful-their yaoi line. John O'Donnell's wife is in charge of the line & the division, at the time of the panel, was pretty much female. He commented CPM tested a yaoi anime, thinking of licensing it, for a gay audience & got a negative response. In starting up Be Beautiful, he realized they had tested the wrong audience--that yaoi is for women by women. The wife's line on it was that women can feel competetive with a female lead in a shojo manga, ut with 2 males leads, the competition is not only removed, but it also offers the reader the opportunity to choose the guy she prefers to cheer for (or dream about for both).
Girls in romance titles can be very annoying. Half the time when Miaka's in danger in Fushigi Yugi, I really wouldn't mind if she died. I do mind when they kill a bishonen.
There's also the romantic angle--that it's not an easy relationship, thus the love is stronger that they are willing to defy the norms of society to pursue the love. In a hetero relationship an author coud use an interracial couple to represent the same taboo of defying society(while more accepted, there are still those who frown on interracial relationships). One of the common yaoi lines is that the guy has fallen in love following his heart & the object of his love just happens to be fated to be a guy. "The one meant for me" Clamp is so fond of pursuing. In real life, one still hears of gay people settling for a "normal" relationship rather than come out of the closet to proclaim their homosexuality. Or marrying the opposite sex & having same-sex lovers on the side.
Guys have their fan service & abundant girl/girl imagery in American pron already. Maybe the reason no one's rushing to bring over yuri is there's so much fan service in so many other titles & the imagry is already common here.
Yuri in anime? Check out Satoru Akahori. Besides the geek smothered in the bosom of the well-endowed, usually bondage-clad female, he has his share of yaoi, sibling & yuri relationships. Specifically the hunter team-male & female-in Maze both are after female Maze. Sorcerer Hunters has MArron in love with his brother & everyone chasing Marron, MilleFleur chasing just about the whole team & Carrot, I believe accidentally winding up in the bed of Potato's mom. El Hazard:Alternative World has a little girl interested in other girls.
Miyuki-Chan in Wonderland is all-girl(by Clamp) You might try other Clamp titles. Tomoyo is a bit more devoted to her cousin than usual
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Vicwic



Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 9
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:54 am Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:

Guys have their fan service & abundant girl/girl imagery in American pron already. Maybe the reason no one's rushing to bring over yuri is there's so much fan service in so many other titles & the imagry is already common here.


That's true - it may be different in the US, but certainly in the UK you often get half-naked women/topless women posed together in newspapers (the downmarket tabloids that is) and in general men's magazines - and that is aside from porn.

Most, if not all, guy-guy stuff is aimed at the gay market. The only time I've seen anything outside gay magazines themselves was when an advert showing two men kissing was put up at Kings Cross Underground station a couple of months ago (which was interesting!), but even so, that was advertising a gay magazine.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:40 pm Reply with quote
That's true & the problem yaoi is having here--everyone sees it as gay porn when the target audience is women(the romance audience) & not guys. While guys can like it(like guys can like shojo) it isn't intended for a male audience &, as Central Park Media learned testing it out on a gay audience, it doesn't necessarily do well there. What appeals to women isn't necessarily what appeals to gay men.
It does go on the love willing to go thru anything wmen want to see. Many women reading romance novels want to see a love where the couple stick it out no matter what--the romance that one's lover will do anything for one. Yaoi gives us impossibly beautiful guys(thus the woman doesn't have to compete with a female heroine or feel less pretty than the female characters who are pretty much non-existant much of the time) willing to die for each other.
Yeah, we get guys in shonen dying for each other, but they aren't always beautiful. Of course, that also explains the shonen yaoi doujinshi.
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Lyra



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 9
Location: In a place

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:41 am Reply with quote
Well, I don't actually know what the fascination is, but I guess maybe it's something psychological which is just in our systems. Kinda like boys' fascination with Yuri. I know that some people only like the stuff when they're hugging or kissing cause it's sweet, but maybe some people just find it sexually appealing. It's not neccessarily appealing to see a boy and a girl, possibly because it's so overrated and ordinary. I personally don't wanna see a boy and a girl doing...whatever! cause it's so boring. I like to see something orginal and exciting. I do admit that two real boys do nothing for me, but I guess it's just something we'll never understand.
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wanderer



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:54 pm Reply with quote
I think this question is kind of funny. Why is yaoi appealing? Well, why is action appealing? Romance? Sci-fi? Drama?
I like yaoi /shonen-ai for the same reasons I like drama and romance and comedy and any other type of manga I read. Its fun and entertaining.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and say that there isn't an element of tittilation involved (with smuttier titles Anime catgrin ) because it would be meaningless to deny that and its nothing to get bent out of shape over. We're all sexual beings.
But as far as what has been translated by American companies, which is arguably almost entirely shonen-ai despite its being called yaoi, I can honestly say that I enjoy that for the same exact reasons that I like any boy-girl romance manga. I like stories about couples and relationships and whatever hardships they have to overcome to be together. It hardly matters if one or both of the people is a guy.
Quote:
I have to agree with Vicwic that one of the most appealing things for me, about yaoi and shonen-ai is its originality.Traditional male female relationships do tend to get very boring and predictable after awhile,and shonen-ai/yaoi is a good way to liven things up.

I agree with this as well. How many times do I have to listen to 'x' heroine wondering how 'y' hero feels about her, when in volume three and twice in volume five he's CLEARLY stated that he cares for her in one way or another. I suppose that is realistic because of the insecurities of youth, but I think this is something that has been in the plots of at least 75% of the romance manga I've read, and it gets old. Shonen-ai/yaoi is just romance branching out. A male in love with a male will have different obstacles than a female in love with a male, and thus there's room for a lot of different stories.

And then there's the sexual aspect of yaoi that so many people are repulsed by or embarassed to admit they enjoy. Why? With the exception of overly graphic, violent, or just plain weird scenes (which a lot of people erroneously seem to think is all there is to yaoi) which I personally do not like, I really don't mind the depiction of sex in manga, yaoi or otherwise. I don't really look at sex as something dirty as many people do. When I'm reading about characters in love that are together I think its normal to include that in the story. People have sex. People have sex with people they love as an expression of that love or have it just to have it, there's nothing wrong with it, be it gay or straight. I'll agree that it isn't necessary to be over gratuitous or graphic with it but I like it being there. It would be kind of unbelieveable to read about two characters who have a passion for each other but all we ever see is a kiss or hug.
I also agree with all the ladies who are pointing out the enjoyment of seeing great-looking guys all over the place (and each other) without the interference of girls. For me this is where the fantasy of it comes into play. I have yet to be pursued by a man as fervently as some of the fellas in these mangas have been Crying or Very sad, and that in and of itself is so sexy. Its fantastic to see/read about and then imagine a man so passionate about someone that he'll go after them until he gets them- not giving a damn that its another man or anything else that may get in his way.
Quote:
I like looking at attractive men (real or drawn), I like looking at attractive naked men. And where one man good, two men better (and hot) - though more than that, I get confused!

There is also the fact that with man/woman relationships the roles tend to be more predictable. With two men these are less defined, more interesting - it can be fun to see a man being wooed by a man in the same way that we are. It gives an interesting perspective and can often be sexy too! It can also be nice just reading about two men being close and affectionate or passionate with each other - without all the normal macho crap.
I agree with everything Vicwic said ( a very well-put post Very Happy !) but this part in particular is key and pretty much sums up my feelings so I'll shut up now. (I'm so long-winded Embarassed! )I don't think any of us are looking for some literary masterpiece when we pick up a shonen-ai/yaoi manga, I think we're looking for something fun and enjoyable just like everyone else who reads manga.
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SnowStar_7*



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:31 am Reply with quote
Wow! I always write too much in forums. You all truly did. I don't even know what to say since many of the things I was going to say were covered and I did not even completely read the last few posts! Well, I will try.

First of all I should not be considered a fan of Yaoi or shonen-ai considering I have only read a few fics and a couple of insniuating manga. I came into this topic because I am curious as to why ao many females are so into this craze. I was just on a site a few days ago and someone said that she was a 'heterosexual female who loved to write yaoi' and many responded by saying 'well most of us in the fandom are'. I have also seen plenty of fanfiction of Harry Potter slash. As someone mentioned that one of the starters of this whole thing was Star Trek. I had heard about that somewhile ago, and yes the whole sci/fi fantasy slash continues on with all these current new media (other generes as well of course, but I only speak for the genre I love). I personally would probably not get a shonen-ai title, but I am not against at all.

I do feel that I have been drawn into it recently by the anime/manga community. Especially through the Saiyuki fandom. I love the characters. They are the reason why I love that story so much, and I have put up with alot of crap (female nudity, certain disturbing issues), because of them. They are four men who are very disturbed by their pasts, and who have this very intense bond with each other, and even though they will not admit it by putting a typical male front that they very deeply care for each other in a friend way.

Now, Kazuka Minekura's (the author of Saiyuki) other works are all shonen-ai and Saiyuki's main characters are all not homosexual. Yet, she makes them speak in ways that which make you think they may have more than just a friend love. There are jokes here and there the way Gojyo speaks.

Now why do I mention all this?

Well, whenever I see one of those moments between a pair I like or hear does words they say I cannot help, but enjoy it. I look for them even. Saiyuki is the reason why I like shonen-ai couples a little, and I have started to better understand the shonen-ai fangirls.

Here are the reasons why I (believe) am attracted to them.

-Most of the manga/anime I like happen to have more men than anything else. I adore these beautiful men, and the more there are the more eyecandy that is for me. I do not have to like a female character (I mostly like males) with shonen-ai I could love both members of the couple.

-The less woman there are the less fanservice involving them will occur (I just hate it sometimes). Although, I do find myself wishing that their were more females in particular series so I could have more heterosexual couples to cheer on for. In the Saiyuki fandom there are tons of shonen-ai fics, and I have yet to find a good hentaish fic involving some of the females with the protagonists, (tell me if you know about one by the way Wink ) and in part it's because of the lack of females in the story, and of course everyone likes to put these guys (who will probably not ever get together in the canon) into couples. So because of this I started to read some of these fics.

-Someone mentioned the whole jealousy one feels towards a female character. Well, I do not believe in that. I believe it because it's hard to find a female characeter one can relate too and like. They are usually either too inncoent, too dumb or not agressive enough or too aggressive. It's just a pain too find good female characters. I feel like I'd prefer too see my favorite bishonen with an interesting male character like himself than with an idiotic female one. Well, to some extent as I said before I prefer heterosexual couples when possible.

-There is just something so appealing of two guys bonding together, and seeing how they act around each other. You know like how when guys get all playful and pretend fight atop of each other. It's just cute. I get so many fangirlish giggles from those moments and I think it's because it's some kind of forbidden, and you have those moments where you imagine them being together as a couple and then you shake it off. Those little details I love. Those little playful words.

-It's just an odd natural feeling you get when see two beautiful men together. How can you explain it?

Ah, so much more to say. I cannot believe I posted here in the first place. It truly shows how much anime/manga has affected me enough to comment on something like this. I don't think I made much sense at some points, but no matter I said what I (kind of) wanted to say. Really it is a difficult emotion to explain. Smile
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Proman



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:46 am Reply with quote
darkhunter wrote:
J-Syxx wrote:
I think its more basic human nature at work here. I'm sure yurior shoujo-ai titles would be popular among guys if they were actually sold in stores.


I doubt it, guys might want to see something like that in thier manga but if they're just looking for girl on girl, then they will likely want to see real porn rather then read about it.

Like I said earlier, I think girls prefer thier gay porn in art rather than in real life, but Liann makes a good point. Plus she read a lot of yaoi too.

But it looks like we don't have any other yaoi fan that want to tell us why they like it. Why Doushiji consist of yaoi and other stuff.

I'm a guy and I never read a yuri manga before (it's kind of hard to find) but I would definitely check one out if I had a chance. I don't know if I would continue reading but I can see some appeal there. If nothing else it would be something different.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:46 am Reply with quote
It was Central Park MEdia's John O'Donnell's wife, at a panel on the launch of their Be Beautiful yaoi line that used the terminology of being competative. She was JApanese, I believe, so there might have been a language issue. Snowstar, your comments somewhat reflect her words--that the female leads are annoying, idiotic, etc. Sort of like the females on soap operas--the story was interested, but the gals used to drive me crazy. Did I feel jealous? No. Did I feel smarter? Yes. In that way one is competing with the gals in the stories. I enjoyed Boys Over Flowers when I first read it, but the gal is really bugging me(we're on vol 9, aren't we?) & I'm real close to dropping it since I know it's 30-odd volumes & it just has to be more of the same for the next 20 volumes. Am I jealous of her? No. IS she a stupid idiot? Yes. Does someone need to slap her? Yes.
On the other hand, in yaoi the guys fall into the bishonen mold so they're supposed to be cool--Ms O'Donnell's line was impossibly beautiful guys. This being fantasy, our beautiful guys have to act cooler than the usual shojo heroine.
There is the fan service issue. I'm always shocked at the amount of naked females in shojo. If the target is gals, shouldn't we be seeing more naked guys? Yaoi gives us more fan service on guys this side of shonen(There's a good amount of naked guys in shonen. My daughter & I know what we have & which volumes to re-watch. Those Zodiac Knights are so clean, taking lots of baths & showers) Yaoi tends not to include naked women as shonen & other types will.
I find the romance in yaoi more romantic than many shojo, probably because so many of the females are so annoying, even shallpw. An emphasis is placed on the love being unacceptable to society, thus more difficult, yet our protagonists decide their love is worth the trouble--love conquers all.
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SnowStar_7*



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:31 pm Reply with quote
Yes, I relaized I should have been more specific than just 'someone' mentioned I put in my last post about the whole 'jeaolusy' thing. I'm too lazy though.

The nudity thing gets on my nerves. Why would we want to see a bunch of near naked or might-as-well-be-naked-since-t they-are-wearing-practically-nothing women? The female nudity of course has always been more accepted in every kind of media than the male one. You know how ratings go up if it is a male's anotomy (however little is shown) on the big screen is shown while if it is a woman's naked figure the rating's don't necessairly go up that high. It's not like I want to see a man's everything in manga. I'm simply saying I just don't want to have to see a female's [i]everything[i/].
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Diedrupo



Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:14 pm Reply with quote
i'm not a fangirl, but I think the obvious reason is that girls like yaoi for the same reason guys like hentai/ecchi/ero. It's stimulating. :lol:
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:52 pm Reply with quote
wanderer wrote:
I think this question is kind of funny. Why is yaoi appealing? Well, why is action appealing? Romance? Sci-fi? Drama?
I like yaoi /shonen-ai for the same reasons I like drama and romance and comedy and any other type of manga I read. Its fun and entertaining.

.


Many people can like it for many different reason. Some find it fascinating while other find it arousing. That was the purpose of this post, to find out the many reason why girls and women like it. (not why "should" they like it). To tell you the truth, I bet a lot of guys would be confuse on why gils like "gay porn", so this would at least help them understand the many different reason. You have to go deeper and ask "why is it entertaining or fun", because it's definitely popular for more reason than just being fun. A manga like Junk Force and Battle Vixen are fun, but I don't see them toppling sales.
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Onv



Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 114
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Diedrupo wrote:
i'm not a fangirl, but I think the obvious reason is that girls like yaoi for the same reason guys like hentai/ecchi/ero. It's stimulating. Laughing

That's the only reason why I like yaoi. No real deep explanation here. Wink
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Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
A manga like Junk Force and Battle Vixen are fun, but I don't see them toppling sales.

That's probobly because there's simply more of a market for yaoi than these titles. Yaoi owes some of its success to the fact that shojo is currently a popular genre in the American market.
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