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JesuOtaku



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 2682
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:53 am Reply with quote
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But how to do it? Hey, that sounds to me like a nice segway to the next question:


Oh my god yes.



Every time that word gets misspelled, a little flower blooms in my heart and sings~
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Ted_the_bear2001



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:06 am Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
Quote:
But how to do it? Hey, that sounds to me like a nice segway to the next question:


Oh my god yes.



Every time that word gets misspelled, a little flower blooms in my heart and sings~


I couldn't help but LOL at this.

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And the proof, as they say, is in the pudding - is Saber Marionette J available anywhere? Is it on DVD? Streaming? No? Okay then!


I don't know. I've seen DVD singles of Saber Marionette J at conventions all the time. It wouldn't surprise me if someone just randomly picked it up and saw the cover, thinking it would be interesting. Happened to me when I stumbled upon an old Devil Hunter Yohko VHS at a Salvation Army.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7380

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:13 am Reply with quote
Anime certainly does objectify women, but a strong self of feminism has never been a part of Japanese society until very recently. Maybe the portrayals of meek women are the way otaku and the creators can escape from the scary reality? Either way, there's a degree of cultural relativism that maybe we just cannot fully grasp, or maybe that's just an excuse from a chauvinist? One thing I do know, as far as anime creation goes, there are not often a lot women present.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:29 am Reply with quote
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Look at the Fate/stay night series - started out as a hentai game, took out the sex, doubled-down on the story and characters, and wound up with something as respectable and enthralling as Fate/Zero.


That is a less than entirely accurate recounting of the events that led to Fate/Zero's creation.

Also Fate/Stay Nights sex scenes, like every sex scene ever written by Nasu, were terrible.

As for Strike Witches, yes, it most certainly is chock to the brim with fanservice, and it strictly speaking doesn't need to be there, but its also a story about a group of girls saving the goddamn world. I find it weird how anime both has more blatant objectification of women, AND more shows about women/girls (ok, they're mostly girls) taking charge and just generally being awesome. Its one of those weird dichotomy things. Or something.

lol Japan?


Last edited by Fencedude5609 on Fri May 18, 2012 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:29 am Reply with quote
I agree with your remarks bemoaning that it is the case that women are objectified in male-focused media where it does not have to be the case. My favourite thing about Strike Witches is probably the music; it's one of my most-listened to soundtracks after Evangelion (various tracks among the six hundred or so albums). I lump the fanservice into the 'fun' aspect of the show, along with the humour, and wouldn't be particularly bothered if there were less nudity and yuri. Maybe the yuri if it actually went anywhere and weren't just for fanservice value, like with Sanya and Eila's relationship, which forms the two sweetest moments in the show.

(The writers of the Strike Witches anime had little if anything to do with the alternate history; you can credit that to original creator Humikane Shimada.)
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:31 am Reply with quote
jymmy wrote:
Maybe the yuri if it actually went anywhere and weren't just for fanservice value, like with Sanya and Eila's


Speaking of Fumikane, if you look into the other teams and such, there are even more confirmed lesbian couples than even those two.

I wish we'd get a show about one of the other JFS.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:35 am Reply with quote
I always kick myself for not writing in when I actually see questions I like...

Anyways..

Best convention moment - AM2 2011. Won one of the charity auction items and got to have a 2 on 2 session with Miho Shimogasa & Akihiko Yamashita. Although I had won items at other convention charity auctions in the past, I never had had the opportunity to talk with any of them.


Worst convention moment - Shoving odd AX line mishaps aside, it would be a tie between autograph sessions of Jo Chen at SakuraCon 2011 or Akemi Takada at AX 2009. Both guests had an overinflated ego. In Chen's case, after a couple of us waited until the end of the autograph session (which ended early) to get a sketch from Vofan, she became argumentative and started arguing with the staff, in Chinese. Both she, Vofan & the Sakuracon staff went behind a curtain and argued for another 10 minutes. Eventually, they came out and we got a sketch, but still...to see someone get so mad over just an inquiry over a sketch...jeez.

In Takada's case, she was upset that so many people were lining up for Mignogna's line instead of hers. I was coming away from another line and an AX staffer asked if I would go to Takada's line. Everything that I had had been signed because, the day before, Takada refused to sign anything that wasn't a $75 print that AX was selling. So I presented the backside of a board to her, and she flipped it over, and sneered at me.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2702

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:15 am Reply with quote
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But! Can't we agree on something?

No.

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that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE... we don't need to be so gross about women?

Feel free to do so with men. Get your yaoi seme-uke groove on, chain 'em, gag 'em up, doesn't bother me a bit. Gender equality FTW Laughing
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 551

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:26 am Reply with quote
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Look at the Fate/stay night series - started out as a hentai game, took out the sex, doubled-down on the story and characters, and wound up with something as respectable and enthralling as Fate/Zero.


F/SN has a just as much story and character as Zero, it just never made it into the anime. You'll have to read the VN for that.

There are definitely a lot of VN that are blatantly sexist. That doesn't mean all of them are. I'm a woman and I enjoy a lot of romance-centered VN. Key's stuff is great, for example. I just like cute and sexy romances; VN are a preferred format because the art is pretty and I don't run into rape like with romance novels. Does that make me creepy?

Don't forget that otome and BL games exist on the flip-side. We girls are also guilty of objectification, if to a lesser degree.
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Alien1375



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:18 am Reply with quote
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Can't we just agree that even in our most disposable and forgettable of mindless entertainment, TV shows and movies and manga and comic books that are just meant to be a quick brainless jaunt through our most basest desires, that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE... we don't need to be so gross about women? Or, uh, girls, even? Young girls, too? I know Sex Sells, but wouldn't it be nice if it didn't as much?


No we can't agree. Women can have their own B-movies and yaoi stuff with hot men taking their shirts off. I will not morally judge them.

Look, you can say that Strike Witches is not your thing, you can say the story is thin and based on fanservice. All fine by me. That's what a professional reviewer does.
Calling the people who like these kind of series creeps or that they are gross is not professional. It's a personal judgement that should not be a part of a review.
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dandelion_rose



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:41 am Reply with quote
It only bothers me when the sexism in a show or manga is linked to real-life issues. This is pretty subjective though; it's a question of what kind of ideas gets propagated and how much it is linked to social mores.

The only example I can think of isn't from anime or manga, but from Haruki Murakami's Kafka on the Shore (since it's also Japanese). In the beginning, there's a whole sequence where a woman gets an uncontrollable urge to have sex while escorting some kids on a day trip, and masturbates in the woods once she is in private. This I didn't mind. Later, two feminists reproach a small library for not having segregated bathrooms, and this is followed by a rant from an intersexed character against the feminists. This seriously bothered me for reasons that would take too long to explain.

TLDR: I'm okay with anime and manga that are fanservice-heavy since they're meant to be escapist fantasies for men. I mean, if a guy treats women respectfully IRL he can have all the dakimakura he wants, I've got no problem with that. I'm less okay when it seems to communicate a certain idea about society and to society that is sexist, and you can get that from a show with very little fanservice.

(There's also another issue about the story being created within the context of Japanese culture, and any talk about gender issues needs to be conscious of that.)
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 936
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 am Reply with quote
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Look at the Fate/stay night series - started out as a hentai game, took out the sex, doubled-down on the story and characters, and wound up with something as respectable and enthralling as Fate/Zero.


Fate/stay Night became popular not because of the porn scenes, but because of the plot and characters. Porn doesn't sell 150K copies in the visual novel market even if it helps you get there. The setting of Fate/Zero is established in F/SN, quite a lot about the main characters and plot points are as well. Which one you think is better or "respectable" comes down to taste and writing and not the presence of sex scenes, that weren't present in the PS2 port of F/SN.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:24 am Reply with quote
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You'll never see a hardcore dating sim pressed into a disc and published on a major video game system


I just want to say you'll see this all over Japanese systems, especially the PSP and 360... Those systems are essentially known as the visual novel systems in Japan. In America, yeah they're rare, but they're everywhere in Japan. Unless you mean 18+, which is true.
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Shenl742
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:52 am Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
Quote:
You'll never see a hardcore dating sim pressed into a disc and published on a major video game system


I just want to say you'll see this all over Japanese systems, especially the PSP and 360... Those systems are essentially known as the visual novel systems in Japan. In America, yeah they're rare, but they're everywhere in Japan. Unless you mean 18+, which is true.


Pretty sure that's what he means by "hardcore", as in explicit sexual activity
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:54 am Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
Quote:
You'll never see a hardcore dating sim pressed into a disc and published on a major video game system


I just want to say you'll see this all over Japanese systems, especially the PSP and 360... Those systems are essentially known as the visual novel systems in Japan. In America, yeah they're rare, but they're everywhere in Japan. Unless you mean 18+, which is true.


Pretty sure that's what he means by "hardcore", as in explicit sexual activity


Yeah, I figured he did, but then he brought up Agarest War as a rare example of a dating sim on a console... and thats a T rated game. So I think he was talking about dating sims over all, just aimed at the hardcore otaku.
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