Forum - View topicSword Art Online (TV).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
TUSF
Posts: 191 |
|
|||||||||
|
The biggest complaint I've seen about Log Horizon is the pacing. Specifically, they expect it to be an action show, and see fighting every episode, when in fact, it's more about world-building.
I personally like it, and it focuses a lot on the MMO aspect of the show. There are a lot of info-dumps, so there's that. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Nayu
Posts: 676 |
|
|||||||||
|
In regards to the pacing issue above, I think this is more along the lines of people not wanting to have to pay attention. They want explosions and non-stop action. Log Horizon isn't that sort of show. It has a story to tell and it takes time to build the world that it is doing so in. Its a pleasant surprise in an era where people demand that every anime "save anime" by filling each episode with a hundred explosions, vapid plotlines, hyperfanservice and ultraviolence.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||
As others have alluded to, instead of epic battles or iconic characters it is more about carefully-crafted world-building, thoughtful exploration of the setting, politics and battlefield strategy, and lots of development for secondary characters. The show is content to stay below the radar and quietly do its own thing instead of actively wowing audiences. Log Horizon is impressive on an intellectual level, but even if you did eventually watch it I don't believe it would become a favourite of yours. That said, you should still watch it, because once it gets going it is a rewarding experience and a fresh addition to what was quickly becoming a crowded and tired genre.
Not just world-building but also character development. A lot of time is spent making us care about the characters and what happens to them. Establishing a proper emotional attachment for - and investment in - the characters before rushing into plot or battle is a good (though hardly the only) way to tell a story, but far too many shows eschew it and suffer.
I like the MMO aspect to it too. The author is a huge fan of MMOs and knows the gameplay mechanics of such games very well, so it makes sense that he can create a convincing game to base his story on.
I have to admit that this is true. But in the show's defence, the infodumps are there mainly because Log Horizon has so much story and lore to tell, rather than because of laziness or incompetence or a mistaken belief that the audience is stupid. Also, there are plenty of times when the show gives hints and then stands back and trusts the audience to have made the connection by ourselves. So while the infodumps definitely exist, they generally aren't that big of a problem. And after the first few episodes they get less frequent and cease to be an issue (at least in my opinion).
Generalising an entire era like that is a bit suspect. But I admit that Log Horizon does remind me of two-cour shows from the early-to-mid noughties, which had slower and more deliberate pacing and a greater emphasis on characters and world-building. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
|
|||||||||
Really, people are a bit hard about the whole hospital thing. For starters, the novel does specify that the hospital Asuna is at is a private hospital that does not have an ER, which I suspect is what most people are envisioning when they say it should be busier. And yes, Kirito does easily attract a couple nurses (who recognize him) when he walks in, and one goes to get a security guard to collect Sugou, and one goes to get a doctor for Kirito's injuries, and Kirito moves on while he's left unattended. Beyond that, how many of you have actually seen the non-ER parts of a hospital at night? They can be quite empty. You'll have a couple of nurses at a nursing station, and some cleaning personnel going around. Other than that, it's entirely possible to look down a hallway and not see anyone, or walk around and pass only one person who has no cause to challenge your presence there. There's a reason things like this can happen. So it's more plausible than you'd think for Kirito to walk down a hallway without anyone in sight, or get to Asuna without being further challenged. As for Asuna, and them discovering she's awake, that's more complicated than people probably realize. For starters, I'm pretty sure that her vitals flatlining weren't Asuna pulling off her monitors, but rather Kirito imaging the worst. So Asuna would presumably be still hooked up to vital monitors. In which case, short of a nurse checking on Asuna, or Asuna having a call button in reach, they would not know she was awake. Seriously, Asuna was not truly asleep, or in a coma, but locked in VR. There would not be any noteworthy change in her vitals signs when the Nervegear switched off and she sat up. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
|
|||||||||
To use sporting parlance, it's like comparing a soccer team to a tennis player. They're focusing on such different things, that there's a very limited amount of comparison that can be done, to the point of rendering most comparison meaningless. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||
Comparisons can be made in all the usual areas; characters, plot, setting, direction, internal consistency, et cetera. If I don't give a damn about the characters because they haven't been handled well then that is indeed a problem, and a comparison can be made to Log Horizon's superior handling of its characters (especially with respect to the supporting cast). Just because Sword Art Online is a populist work does not give it a free pass on doing the basics, nor does it make it immune from comparison and analysis. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
|
|||||||||
While you can make some comparisons, things like SAO being focused on a sole hero, and Log Horizon being focused on an ensemble cast pretty much automatically mean that characters will be getting differing levels of development. SAO's main cast just isn't as big as Log Horizon's main cast. As such a lot more characters get development in Log Horizon than they do in SAO. I suspect much of what you are calling the supporting cast in Log Horizon I would be calling part of the main cast. That's part of why comparisons are difficult, and I liken it to comparing a tennis player to a soccer team. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||
|
^
I was talking about depth of development as well, not just breadth. Since Sword Art Online's recurring cast is markedly smaller than Log Horizon's, characters in SAO should on average get more screentime and therefore development. And that's true of Kirito, Asuna and Suguha, yes, but the rest of the SAO cast range from disappointing to woeful; poor Klein *sniffs*. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
|
|||||||||
In Sword Art Online, Kirito, Asuna, and Suguha are the only real main cast, the rest are supporting cast. In Log Horizon, spoiler[Shiroe, Akatsuki, Naotsugu, Maryelle, Henrietta, Nyanta, Minori, Touya, Isuzu, Rudy, Crusty, and Lenessia are the main cast.] It also has a large supporting cast, but they languish in not much better shape than SAO's, particularly when comparing anime. The point I'm trying to make here is that cast size does not determine development of the supporting cast. It's not a matter of "Oh, there are fewer characters so these ones need more development." or "Oh, there are more characters so these ones need less development." They get the amount of development that's appropriate for their role. Also, I don't think you realize how much the director matters when you give a shout out to Log Horizon's author. Mamare Touno writes an enjoyable enough novel, but Shinji Ishihira is the one making the anime as good as it is. There are a lot of places where the anime draws on the manga adaption instead of the novel to make things interesting, or does it's own thing to make things interesting, or to add appropriate foreshadowing that simply didn't exist the novel, or to otherwise translate narration and some fairly dry description into a watchable scene. Tomohiko Ito on the other hand, does a serviceable job, but he takes "show, don't tell" a bit too far, and regularly cuts the character's thought processes, or narrative description/explanation, even when he shouldn't and doing so detracts from from the story. For example, Sword Art Online's anime essentially completely lacks any of the explanation of Sword Arts, whereas Log Horizons's anime includes all the info dumps about classes and skills. In short, a lot of problems and differences aren't at the original creator level, but at the anime director level. Which is another problem with a lot of the comparison, people want to compare the writing, but don't realize what they are actually comparing is the directing. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
|
|||||||||
|
270 pages... the Gagnam Style of anime. Attack on Titan was better but I guess MMO pretty much conquered the anime fandom long before.
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
|
|||||||||
|
I did really like S.A.O. but I agree with DTMs analysis of the lack of overall presence in the story of any of the supporting characters. It's kind of like you could hardly call them supporting characters, and more like their existence served only to fulfill a specific plot device. For example, I love Asuna and that's because we as the viewer really got to know her, there was so much character development, but comparatively in a single episode a character like Silica proved to be potentially far more interesting even with the tiny part she played. Unfortunately they just kind of shoved her under the bus, at least they didn't kill her off like spoiler[Sachi].
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5824 Location: Virginia, United States |
|
|||||||||
I have been surveying hospitals for the past year all over the country. Been in them day and night working. Patients are kept in patient wards, there are nurses and doctors working those wards. Many hospitals have their own police forces, who patrol the floors day and night. Usually after hours, the ER entrance is the only way into the hospital. Asuna would have been in a patient ward, even one with a private room. I would think that because of her condition, that a part of her vitals monitoring, would be something that would have alerted the staff when she regained consciousness. Asuna would have required around the clock care. She needed to be fed, bathed, sanitary care, vitals monitoring, and physical therapy. All while she was unconscious. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
TUSF
Posts: 191 |
|
|||||||||
The thing is, she was never "unconscious" to begin with. Anything used to determine if she was awake or not wouldn't have worked. You would have needed for her to disconnect from the machines, or for someone to see her wake up. I won't pretend to know about how hospitals treat people who are effectively comatose, but I doubt you need to feed someone 24/7, much less so at night. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Cam0
 Posts: 4888 |
|
|||||||||
First you say that it isn't fair to compare the two and then you go on to make comparisons. I believe there's a word for people like this and starts with an "H". No no no no, just slightly kidding. I sort of understand you here. Everything can be compared but it's not fair to compare the two since they (apparently) focus on different things (or as you said the other has overly superior writing). I, admittedly, have not seeing Log Horizon though and I don't know where the similarities start and end. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||||||
|
^
It's not fair to compare the two just like it isn't fair to put a chess amateur against a grandmaster. But comparisons of skill can still be made if one wants to. Fairness only dictates what ought to be done, not what can actually be done. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group