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Andrew Kim wrote:

Anything by Satoshi Kon would work like Grave of the Fireflies, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, or Paprika.

I know that everybody and their grandfather knows this, but I feel compelled to point out that Grave of the Fireflies was directed by Isao Takahata, not Satoshi Kon. I definitely agree, though, Sotoshi Kon is a great way to get people interested in anime or otherwise reevaluate their preconceptions about animation in general. Anyways-this is my first post so Hey Guys!!! I look forward to conversing with you all in the future.

animehermit wrote:

Zac wrote:

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

Zac wrote:

You guys must not watch a lot of American TV if you honestly believe anime does 'ballsy' things American shows don't or haven't ever done.

Family Guy, South Park, Drawn Together, etc? Yeah, but how about something that isn't aiming for the toilet humor crowd?

He said 'not just American cartoons, but American TV shows'.

Which I guess would be true if you don't ever actually watch American TV.

Ruling out episodic crime shows, Reality TV, and sitcoms, the only good shows on tv are Battlestar Galactica and everything on the movie channels(HBO, Showtime, cinemax and stars).

That makes no sense. Why would you arbitrarily exclude all that stuff? To be fair we then ought to look at anime minus several of it's most dominant genres. Although really, I suppose what you've excluded is akin to excluding mecha, shounen and moe from anime. However, while they aren't often the genre's proudest moments they do still yield gems occasionally. (especially in the case of the first of both groups which while often really bad can often be brilliant as well). And in the end what is going to be brought up in a discussion like this is the successes. Not the failures.

Also, skimming over all shows on movie channels is equally silly. How does that disqualify them? Especially since such a bulk of anime (the more graphic stuff anyway) gets aired late at night which essentially amounts to the same thing. It's just here, this stuff still maintains a more mainstream appeal compared to anime even in Japan. Therefore, we see this specialty channel based set up instead of it just airing really late at night like they tend to do with anime.

Also, even by your criteria, what about LOST and Heroes. If you personally don't care for them that's one thing but if you can't even say objectively that they're at least decent shows you just don't know what you're talking about.

Finally, complaining about how that's the only good show on TV is looking through such a limited scope. I bet when you think about anime though you're perfectly happy to consider all of anime from all times and counting movies and OVAs. Except that's not really fair is it? If that's the case you ought to include all past American TV shows and movies as well and if you open those flood gates you're pretty much sunk. (flood humor)

Or better yet, lets look at anime in the same scope. What anime (TV only) that are currently airing (and nothing that is shown late night) are any good? Depending on your personal taste there might be something, but it's not like there is some kind of mountain of titles that jump to mind.

Another note on butterflies:

Some butterflies are drawn to the scent of rotting fruit and dung. The may also be able to derive some nourishment from the rotting fruit as the cell walls break down and release the juices. Also, some butterflies need sodium and one source is the salt in human sweat. This is why some of them like to land on people. See here:

http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/insects/butterflies/butterflies_about.html

I'll take it one step further and suggest that theres a link between human decomposition and production or increase in salt, but I'm not having much luck digging beyond some tantilizing hits in forensic science articles that can't be accessed in full for free. If there's more salt in the surface of the skin of the dead or dying -- as well as the sickly sweet smell of death -- that may also attract some butterflies. Perhaps all the above was witnessed in times long past, in addition to butterflies own transient nature others mentioned, and lead to the association of butterflies with death.

Nei

I'm gonna have to second ikillchicken on this one. It's pretty asinine to say, "Aside from all this good stuff, American TV sucks!" That's not the way it works. That would probably be better phrased as, "I don't like formulaic, prime-time sitcoms" or "From what I overhear my coworkers/classmates talking about of American TV, I think it sucks." Either of these viewpoints, while disputable, are validly put.

Anyone else think Justin and Brian should just alternate weeks on the Answerman column?

animehermit wrote:

Zac wrote:

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

Zac wrote:

You guys must not watch a lot of American TV if you honestly believe anime does 'ballsy' things American shows don't or haven't ever done.

Family Guy, South Park, Drawn Together, etc? Yeah, but how about something that isn't aiming for the toilet humor crowd?

He said 'not just American cartoons, but American TV shows'.

Which I guess would be true if you don't ever actually watch American TV.

Ruling out episodic crime shows, Reality TV, and sitcoms, the only good shows on tv are Battlestar Galactica and everything on the movie channels(HBO, Showtime, cinemax and stars).

Well obviously you can get away with a lot of things on Cable because it's a channel you pay extra for and they have the liberties broadcast channels don't. Way way back one of the broadcast channels (I forget which) got into a lot of shit for showing Schindlers List uneditied complete with nudity death and everything a lot of parents wouldn't want their kids to see. Granted it was shown at 9:00pm (not really prime time for kids) but it still created trouble for the channel. In my opinion I like the fact that that's how it was presented for the interested viewer but too many mothers and fathers complained

I agree with ikillchicken too, because I do like shows like Lost and Heroes, but I do also agree there is a lot of American TV I don't like.

I think Survivor was cool the first time around only. I'm really not a reality TV fan at all. I dislike most crime dramas, though I have found some likable exceptions due to characters that were interesting.

I'm a sci-fi/fantasy person and most of that doesn't last long on American TV, though there are quite a few notable exceptions to the rule. Anime is in many cases rooted in fantasy, but even when it's not it almost always has some elements of it so I think this is why I like it as much as I do.

It may not be on the cutting edge in some ways, but you don't get the completely zany combination of events that occur in say School Rumble in American TV, at least not without toilet humor to go along with it. And I have to say as someone who really has zero appreciation for toilet humor, this is another reason I like anime. I can get zany situations without yuck. I can't think of a gross-out anime that I actually watch (I believe Shin-chan might be this, but it's ugly as hell so I won't ever watch it).

Taking a break from marathoning Hellsing TV, first time viewing. At episode 10 it's awesome. I'll have to learn later why people prefer Ultimate.

Nei wrote:

Another note on butterflies:

More awesome. Thanks for the educated insight.

Siegel Clyne wrote:

With few exceptions like Sazae-san and perhaps Chibi Maruko-chan, the elderly in Japan generally do not watch anime on television.

The Japanese TV rankings reflect this. The shows that rank high constantly are "kid" shows. Nodame Cantabile is the only recent exception. The anime popular in the U.S. (excepting the staple, long-running shonen series) are not what makes the TV numbers in Japan. They are pretty much what makes DVD sales, though.

ikillchicken wrote:

What anime (TV only) that are currently airing (and nothing that is shown late night) are any good? Depending on your personal taste there might be something, but it's not like there is some kind of mountain of titles that jump to mind.

QFT. Anime is comparable to American TV in that the number of new shows per year is similar, as well as the percentages of good/bad. This season, so far, there are 3 or 4 shows that have potential, then a bunch of average (ultimately forgettable) shows, then the trash that will not even be remembered in 6 months.

Iron Chef wrote:

Anyone else think Justin and Brian should just alternate weeks on the Answerman column?

The issue is that Zac brought an authoritative but sarcastic attitude that tended to piss off half the readership, which is good for volume of posts. I like Brian's stuff, but he doesn't generate the controversy that Zac does. The jury is in the bar right now...

Some aficionados claim that the shaken martini made famous by 007 is watered down garbage, whereas I enjoy the little ice slivers that tend to keep it colder longer. Just realized that my post looks like one of GATSU's... now I'm worried about my future...

pparker wrote:

Taking a break from marathoning Hellsing TV, first time viewing. At episode 10 it's awesome. I'll have to learn later why people prefer Ultimate.

I'm with you on that one. I like Ultimate a lot too but I think I still prefer the TV series more. To answer your question though (that is assuming you meant that you actually don't know and weren't just using it as an expression.) A lot of people do prefer Ultimate for two reasons: Firstly, quality of animation. The TV series has some pretty spotty animation. It's not even so much bad overall, just has serious drops in quality in places. Secondly, the TV series strays pretty far from the manga which is a big deal to some on it's own. On top of that though, the TV series' ending, while still pretty powerful and effective, is totally lacking in resolution. Ultimate however will continue to follow the Manga all the way to a presumably much more satisfying conclusion.

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

Zac wrote:

You guys must not watch a lot of American TV if you honestly believe anime does 'ballsy' things American shows don't or haven't ever done.

Family Guy, South Park, Drawn Together, etc? Yeah, but how about something that isn't aiming for the toilet humor crowd?

Exosquad! Bruce Timm's DCAU! Laughing

animehermit wrote:

Zac wrote:

He said 'not just American cartoons, but American TV shows'.

Which I guess would be true if you don't ever actually watch American TV.

Ruling out episodic crime shows, Reality TV, and sitcoms, the only good shows on tv are Battlestar Galactica and everything on the movie channels(HBO, Showtime, cinemax and stars).

House! Also popular in Japan BTW, 24! Laughing

Then again, I do watch enough American TV (good and bad) in addition to anime (good and bad), so I qualify this by saying the same thing anime fans use when somebody criticizes certain anime: how can you critique it if you haven't seen enough of it? Laughing

Brian wrote:

Now, if you could print those words and mail them to my ex-girlfriends and the especially voluminous amount of girls that I've dated briefly that lost interest within 48 hours, that would be swell. Perhaps include a signed, notarized statement that says “YOU WHORE” or “GIVE BRIAN BACK HIS LETTERS AND MIX CD'S.”

...actually, tell them to keep the mix CD's. I spent a lot of time on those. So, let's make it “GIVE BRIAN BACK HIS LETTERS AND MIX CD'S AFTER YOU LISTEN TO THEM AND TELL HIM WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANIMAL COLLECTIVE. ARE THEY TOO WEIRD?” That should work.

Hence the problem is revealed. Wink

As for Butterflies I read somewhere that it is a metaphor for reincarnation. In Sinto-Buddism there is the believe that how one lived will determine what level of rebirth one's next life will attain. "A beautiful butterfly, from an ugly caterpiller's death, comes."

ikillchicken wrote:

pparker wrote:

Taking a break from marathoning Hellsing TV, first time viewing. At episode 10 it's awesome. I'll have to learn later why people prefer Ultimate.

I'm with you on that one. I like Ultimate a lot too but I think I still prefer the TV series more. To answer your question though (that is assuming you meant that you actually don't know and weren't just using it as an expression.) A lot of people do prefer Ultimate for two reasons: Firstly, quality of animation. The TV series has some pretty spotty animation. It's not even so much bad overall, just has serious drops in quality in places. Secondly, the TV series strays pretty far from the manga which is a big deal to some on it's own. On top of that though, the TV series' ending, while still pretty powerful and effective, is totally lacking in resolution. Ultimate however will continue to follow the Manga all the way to a presumably much more satisfying conclusion.

I'll get back to you on that... I crashed and didn't finish it yet. But then I'll need to watch Ultimate. I can say that I never care that an anime doesn't follow a manga. I have heard about the difference in animation quality, which can make some difference. But I'm a story kind of guy, so animation is secondary.

I realize it's OT, but oh well...

I'd like to point out that Hoshi no Koe does not work for introducing someone to anime. I think you need to already be a fan of the animation style before you can watch such an otaku-y movie. I speak from personal experience here: I hit it off with a girl at a party, invited her to watch it with me, and afterwards she never spoke to me again. Sad

Shii wrote:

I'd like to point out that Hoshi no Koe does not work for introducing someone to anime. I think you need to already be a fan of the animation style before you can watch such an otaku-y movie. I speak from personal experience here: I hit it off with a girl at a party, invited her to watch it with me, and afterwards she never spoke to me again. Sad

Umm, but did it ever cross your mind that Voices of a Distant Star might just be the worst date movie of all time!

pparker wrote:

As to anime targeted at the West, I've said before I'm more interested in seeing anime made for the Japanese because of the eastern viewpoint and cultural differences. That's primarily why I got interested, because it's different and because I am much more oriented to the East philosophically so it resonated. Obviously, having mature themes helps, which the U.S. doesn't do. I own Fritz the Cat and Heavy Metal, and it pretty much stops there. Aoen Flux technically qualifies, but was created by a Korean. Please don't anyone mention South Park...

Have you looked also the works of Bill Plympton? Or Don Herzfeld? Search in the indie American animation to find what you want.

With the advent of fansubs I thought of approaching anime that way too. Though I'd use the word Japanese children and teenagers or Japanese family rather than simply Japanese, based on the majority of available series available.

There are two trends in anime.

First is the adaptation of works based on manga, games, novels, simulations i.e the cash cows. I really see no big difference watching such series in English or Japanese since the content more or less remains the same. Most of the dubs shown on TV were based on such series anyway. Whether I watch Ghostbusters, GI Joe, Conan, Avatar or Fullmetal Alchemist, they're the same. Well animation is a little better I admitt, but for everything else you get used to it in the long run whether it is japanese or american cartoon.

The second trend is that where series are based on original ideas, usually from producers with experience. Kaiba and Dennou Coil come to mind and Haibane Renmei as well. Now this is far more interesting and this is really what makes Japanese TV animation differ. Even though they're not that many

Shii wrote:

I'd like to point out that Hoshi no Koe does not work for introducing someone to anime. I think you need to already be a fan of the animation style before you can watch such an otaku-y movie. I speak from personal experience here: I hit it off with a girl at a party, invited her to watch it with me, and afterwards she never spoke to me again. Sad

Was that dub, or sub? Wink

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