Forum - View topic
All About Licensing: Part I


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1487
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:04 am Reply with quote
What's really ludicrous about that is...

The entire budget of a 13 episode anime series in 2000 was only 2 million or so, maybe a lot less.

and yet a licensor pays 50% of that for a limited term licensing window and limited rights?
Talk about a bum deal. If I paid 50% of the entire budget of an anime I'd expect 50% of _worldwide_ revenue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12016
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:27 am Reply with quote
Justin can tell you about several titles where an English licensor paid so much before the Anime was even made that they got seats on the Production Committee. Big O Season 2 was one of those titles, I think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1487
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:41 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Justin can tell you about several titles where an English licensor paid so much before the Anime was even made that they got seats on the Production Committee. Big O Season 2 was one of those titles, I think.

See, in that case that's fine!

If you're on the production committee you're not a licensor, you ARE the rights holder (or part of it). In that case you will be paying at least 15% of the entire production budget. Heck, Viki did that for OZMA just last season.

That's quite normal. What's abnormal is when someone pays that much money for some limited rights in a limited country and no further claims.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7040
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:04 am Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:

Uhh, the factories are back online, and the shortage is mostly over now. Japan still uses them religiously. B&H has HD-CAMs in stock, and Fuji and Maxell have both stepped up their licensed tape stock game. I prefer files, of course (as do most US anime publishers), but HD-CAM is far from dead. Faaaaaar from dead.
Ah so Sony released the licence to Fuji and Maxwell to take up the slack then? We only got our stock from Sony as we use Sony equipment, and in the UK only Sony is available for anything HDCam. Our facility is leading the way in Europe for a completely "tapeless" infracture from front of camera to final transmission. We are only using tapes for archiving and retreaval now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:16 am Reply with quote
I'm stunned at some of the comments I'm seeing here. How dare an anime company request a license fee of $1 million for a series that cost well over the amount to make.

Why... why... it's criminal to think they try and make back the cost!

Here's some helpful advice: please quit mixing up your personal opinion (value) with business (cost).

They're not the same thing.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its cost changes. Those are fixed and no amount of loving or hating changes it.

My opinion is our R1 is seriously undercutting the anime market's ability to earn what it can back.

Hey, this sounds familiar!

"I want my legendary limited edition box set with gold trim, trinkets and toys, and bluray and I'm not paying a penny over $50 for it all!" - anime fan entitlement

Good grief.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:36 am Reply with quote
The licensing fees are a bundle, because these shows cost a bundle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LUNI_TUNZ



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 660

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
I'm stunned at some of the comments I'm seeing here. How dare an anime company request a license fee of $1 million for a series that cost well over the amount to make.

Why... why... it's criminal to think they try and make back the cost!

Here's some helpful advice: please quit mixing up your personal opinion (value) with business (cost).

They're not the same thing.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its cost changes. Those are fixed and no amount of loving or hating changes it.

My opinion is our R1 is seriously undercutting the anime market's ability to earn what it can back.

Hey, this sounds familiar!

"I want my legendary limited edition box set with gold trim, trinkets and toys, and bluray and I'm not paying a penny over $50 for it all!" - anime fan entitlement

Good grief.


$50? I'm not paying a cent over $20, and it better have all 500 episodes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 1902

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:01 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Justin can tell you about several titles where an English licensor paid so much before the Anime was even made that they got seats on the Production Committee. Big O Season 2 was one of those titles, I think.


No pun intended but you'd probably need Roger Smith himself to negotiate a deal like that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 1240

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
My opinion is our R1 is seriously undercutting the anime market's ability to earn what it can back.


Any company that determines what to produce based on its likely prospects in R1 is setting themselves up for failure. The vast bulk of revenues for most any show are going to be earned in Japan. Contemporary production decisions suggest the companies know that, too. The types of shows being produced are generally targeted at high-spending Japanese otaku, while fewer and fewer shows that might draw audiences outside the small fandom market in R1 are being released. The anime boom in R1 has been over for some years now. Any japanese company expecting the future of anime in R1 to look like the late 90's and early 2000's is delusional.

Streaming represents the future of anime outside Japan, not sales of physical media.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 8397
Location: Do not message me for support.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:27 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Any company that determines what to produce based on its likely prospects in R1 is setting themselves up for failure. The vast bulk of revenues for most any show are going to be earned in Japan. Contemporary production decisions suggest the companies know that, too. The types of shows being produced are generally targeted at high-spending Japanese otaku, while fewer and fewer shows that might draw audiences outside the small fandom market in R1 are being released.


You're right in general, but I would like to point out that there are exceptions. There are anime being produced in Japan right now with foreign markets like R1 in mind. The thing is, these anime are being targeted to the R1 mainstream, not the R1 Otaku, and R1 mainstream remains the most lucrative boxed media market in the world for a successful show.

Obviously producing something with the R1 mainstream market in mind does not guarantee any actual success in that market.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7040
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:32 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Streaming represents the future of anime outside Japan, not sales of physical media.
Only if it pays the same as, or better than, physical media still does. It ain't happened yet on either side of the Ring of Fire. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 1240

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
There are anime being produced in Japan right now with foreign markets like R1 in mind. The thing is, these anime are being targeted to the R1 mainstream, not the R1 Otaku, and R1 mainstream remains the most lucrative boxed media market in the world for a successful show.

That's why I referred to the "the small fandom market in R1" in my post above. I was specifically excluding things like the Marvel/Madhouse types of shows.

Mohawk52 wrote:
Only if [streaming] pays the same as, or better than, physical media still does. It ain't happened yet on either side of the Ring of Fire.

True today, perhaps, but I doubt that will still be true a decade from now. My sense is that younger viewers have little use for physical media and prefer streams (or torrents) to DVDs and BDs. Outside of the collector market, I don't see many reasons to prefer owning discs. I've heard all the arguments about why streams are inferior; most of them aren't all that convincing. Contemporary audiovisual entertainment like anime is a disposable medium. People watch a show once then move on to others. Back when DVDs offered the only legal means to watch anime in R1, there was no other option besides physical media for people uncomfortable with fansubs for moral or legal reasons. Streaming removes that rationale.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12016
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
I'm stunned at some of the comments I'm seeing here. How dare an anime company request a license fee of $1 million for a series that cost well over the amount to make.

Why... why... it's criminal to think they try and make back the cost!

Here's some helpful advice: please quit mixing up your personal opinion (value) with business (cost).


And here comes the overreaction by someone who wasn't reading the posts properly.

I never attacked the Japanese for asking for that much money. Never.

Instead, I was - and still am - angry with ADV for agreeing to pay that much money.

ADV could have walked away before completing the deal, there was nothing forcing them to hand over that much money until the contract was signed. The paid almost a million dollars upfront for a show with limited appeal to the North American/International market. Kurau: Phantom Memory is a great show but that does not mean it has the appeal to recoup back that sort of money for ADV.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
My opinion is our R1 is seriously undercutting the anime market's ability to earn what it can back.


Let's assume that the Japanese Anime market cannot sustain itself without the income from foreign licensors, which I think is what you are getting at. For that to happen the foreign licensors have to be profitable. And that can't happen when those foreign licensors go bankrupt because they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single show, and that this happened not just for one show but several.

Short term that US$960,000 was good for the Japanese. Long-term it - along with other absurdly high payments - led to the collapse of ADV, a company that could have offered decent royalties for years to come.

You've taken the short-sighted view, is what I'm saying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3299
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:52 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
yuna49 wrote:
Any company that determines what to produce based on its likely prospects in R1 is setting themselves up for failure. The vast bulk of revenues for most any show are going to be earned in Japan. Contemporary production decisions suggest the companies know that, too. The types of shows being produced are generally targeted at high-spending Japanese otaku, while fewer and fewer shows that might draw audiences outside the small fandom market in R1 are being released.


You're right in general, but I would like to point out that there are exceptions. There are anime being produced in Japan right now with foreign markets like R1 in mind. The thing is, these anime are being targeted to the R1 mainstream, not the R1 Otaku, and R1 mainstream remains the most lucrative boxed media market in the world for a successful show.

Obviously producing something with the R1 mainstream market in mind does not guarantee any actual success in that market.


It would depend on how the series is marketed however, take for example two series from last year gosick and stein's;gate. Both where made with a western audience in mind "despite the otaku jokes in stein's;gate" and fairly got some good feed-back from online reviewers, bloggers and internet forums.

If x company "say funimation or aniplex usa" could market those two series right to those who do not stream anime then we might have chance for successes. Toonami being back is also a big factor in this being a legal way to watch the series on t.v. to cast to broader audience, however this is just my opinion on the matter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7040
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:54 pm Reply with quote
If Streaming ditches DRM and allows me to make a disc for archiving it'll happen, other wise it's a non-starter in my house. Kids can't, or won't pay for distribution, and by the time they are able they will have moved on to some other form of entertainment, that much has been proven time and time again. It's the irritation that has caused the reaction of streaming in the first place, to beat the fansubbers and pirates at their own game. However producers and publishers are in danger of isolating the very fans that kept them going before all that, the collectors who have bought their physical media. In short they are leaving their flock to chase after wild strays they never had. If anime continues on it's switched rail to be just a watch now and throw away later product, not for collecting, I'm out. I'll leave the flock and spend my money on just manga instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group