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The X Button - Fantasy Stars


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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:20 am Reply with quote
I like it when people think they know how to "fix" Final Fantasy (as if it's broken in the first place), especially when they use FF12 as a model, considering, you know, FF12 is just short of being the worst selling/received game of the franchise. I doubt Square wants to emulate the bottom tier of their series.

"The sub series no one wanted". Please. Americans needs to learn they are not the target audience for Japanese games. So what if the cover-based shooter generation doesn't like RPGs. I wish they'd get off their high horse and stop demanding they change in order to make them like those games.


Last edited by TitanXL on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ranemoraken



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:25 am Reply with quote
A worthwhile read as always. I enjoy the weird stuff you find, such as the bit on cancelled games.

I only note that despite the initial lead character of Final Fantasy XII, the story is driven by Ashe and her quest for vengeance. The other characters, Balthier, Basch and Vaan all color her background so that we can understand the decisions she makes in the game. Since it is her who makes the moral choices and the others who council her, it is Ashe who is the hero.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:55 am Reply with quote
@Titan, what are you talking about?

As quoted from Wiki

Final Fantasy XII received universally high review scores, and earned numerous "Game of the Year" awards in various categories from noted video game publications. Selling more than two million copies in Japan, it became the fourth best-selling PlayStation 2 game of 2006 worldwide. As of March 2007, over 5.2 million copies of the game have been shipped worldwide. A sequel, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, was released for the Nintendo DS in 2007.

FF 13 on the other hand is probably the worst numbered none online game in the series, and probably the worst game period along with the first Crystal Chronicles for the gamecube; its got its own blurbs on criticism on its wiki article. Terrible characters, terrible story, awful gameplay - the staggering system, and the quasi job system were awful.

I have to say I almost agreed with everything in this X button, but please, don't bring up the "oh we need a black character or woman lead". In all likelihood the majority of the fanbase of FF are probably male, and either Asian or Caucasian. I hate to break it to you but the creators of these games are aware of there audience and make certain decision accordingly. Not to mention the creators tend to be male and in the case of Square Enix Asian. Just making a main character black or female is not going to improve anything.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:26 am Reply with quote
The problem is that there is no easy answers, copying the west has never worked nor would I want them to do that even if that did work, hiring new people is easier said than done since Japan is lacking new talent in the first place with an aging population, and Final Fantasy XIII already had a female protaganist (and as mentioned Ashe was basically the main character of Final Fantasy XII).

Remaking Final Fantasy VII is only a stop gap much like how releasing Halo 4 is a stop gap for Microsoft. Its not going to fix the problem.
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:18 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Please. Americans needs to learn they are not the target audience for Japanese games.


You know, you're absolutely right about some games. Something like Disgaea, or hell, even something like Persona, is ultimately going to make most of its money in Japan. Trying to give it more western appeal is inconsequential.

If you think a series as big as Final Fantasy is like this though then you're simply delusional. At this point, it has clearly become a world wide brand targeting both westerners and Japanese alike.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:43 am Reply with quote
For me, the big thing with Final Fantasy is that it hasn't gotten worse; we've gotten older and have more expectations. As a 13 year old, experiencing FF7 for the first time was a great experience... thing is, we're not young teens anymore, so games aimed at them don't appeal to the older demographics anymore. But FF13 DOES appeal to teens still that haven't played the older games and still like the typical shonen kinda stories.

This is a difference with American and Japanese gaming.. American gaming has been aiming at people in their later 20s, yet Japanese gaming makes games for teens and otaku. So when it comes down to it, you're just not the target demographic like you were in the earlier days of FF.

Personally, I have no issue with the direction FF is going. FF13 was really enjoyable, and FF13-2 was even better. Though I play JRPGs since I like them how they are, and don't constantly demand developers to innovate, so I'm fine with them staying as they are with better graphics. When they try to innovate, you get messes like FF12, which was nothing but an offline MMO that abandoned the great story and character development that the FF series is known for.


Last edited by RyanSaotome on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:26 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
Please. Americans needs to learn they are not the target audience for Japanese games.


You know, you're absolutely right about some games. Something like Disgaea, or hell, even something like Persona, is ultimately going to make most of its money in Japan. Trying to give it more western appeal is inconsequential.

If you think a series as big as Final Fantasy is like this though then you're simply delusional. At this point, it has clearly become a world wide brand targeting both westerners and Japanese alike.


Not to mention some companies like Capcom who love to cater to Western gamers in the Call of Duty demographic. Thus have Resident Evil practically being a shooter these days instead of survival horror that we we know it long ago.

As for Final Fantasy, I still enjoy them. They just need to work on the story a bit more. Matsuno left FFXII before finishing it the story, so over half the game didn't feel quite right. FFXIII feels like there were many plot holes and inconsistencies here and there. But both did well on their game play for me.
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sainta



Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:46 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Then Final Fantasy XIII came out, and the backlash was ugly.

The only major criticism I heard was the linearity and it received pretty good scores.

Square once said it was impossible to remake FFVII because most of the original staff left? Then why did they keep remaking the previous games Confused Even Crisis Core ended in a way they promoted the original FFVII.

By the way, are there still no news about the FFX HD release?
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Shenl742
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:57 am Reply with quote
[quote="sainta"]
Quote:
Square once said it was impossible to remake FFVII because most of the original staff left? Then why did they keep remaking the previous games Confused Even Crisis Core ended in a way they promoted the original FFVII.


Because FFI-IV are all very short and simple games. I believe most of the remakes were actually outsourced to other studios for all the major coding (the DS versions of III and IV were handled by Matrix, for example)

FFVII is very long (especially if you want to do everything) and I can only imagine adding more stuff would make it even longer. Improve the visuals, and change every map to 3D, voice-acting and it would probably be enormous. Let's not even get into meeting fan expectations of what it "should" be like...

I believe Nomura has said in interviews that remaking FFVII "properly" would require time and resources equal to that of a new, mainline game and that everyone at the company would rather makes something that was actually was new


Last edited by Shenl742 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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Dimlos



Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:57 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
I like it when people think they know how to "fix" Final Fantasy (as if it's broken in the first place), especially when they use FF12 as a model, considering, you know, FF12 is just short of being the worst selling/received game of the franchise. I doubt Square wants to emulate the bottom tier of their series.
Which Final Fantasy XII are you talking about? And, y'know, considering FFX is one of the most widely liked games in the series, I kind of think I'm willing to take how well-received a game is with a grain of salt (even though XII was well-received and sold well, so your argument is pretty bunk).
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thenix



Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:38 am Reply with quote
I came for game news and got a final fantasy rant. It was entertaining though and I like most of the ideas. It doesn't really matter though because SE isn't reading this and if they were they wouldn't take any advice. I hope Type 0 comes out here. Also I don't' think ff7 needs a remake. I hated that game and it has nothing to do with it's graphics (which seem to be the reason everyone hates or loves it). What I like most about the FF games is it's story. It just seems to have a quality that is easy to sink into and recognize weather I like it or not. Just focus on releasing great tales and design a game to tell it.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:43 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:


I have to say I almost agreed with everything in this X button, but please, don't bring up the "oh we need a black character or woman lead". In all likelihood the majority of the fanbase of FF are probably male, and either Asian or Caucasian. I hate to break it to you but the creators of these games are aware of there audience and make certain decision accordingly. Not to mention the creators tend to be male and in the case of Square Enix Asian. Just making a main character black or female is not going to improve anything.


This is incredibly shortsighted. Allowing the assumption that the majority of FF fans are Asian or Caucasian males, it doesn't follow that these groups only want to see stories about Asian or Caucasian males. People want an adventure. People want to be surprised and explore worlds and concepts and experiences that they've never had before. Video games are an escape from your daily life, not a reinforcement of it. I wholeheartedly agree with the articles commentary about the lack of diversity in FF games (although this has been a problem for the Japanese game industry for a LONG time - most games tend to be about caucasian or quasi-asian males). Don't you get tired of seeing the exact same story played out again and again and again in a lot of lower quality JRPGs? Wouldn't you like to see something that breaks the mold and blows your mind? If our recent debates on this website about the greatness? of Puella Magi Madoka Magica says anything, it says people want to be taken outside of their comfort zone.

The greatest FF games, in my opinion, were the ones that were innovative and told stories that challenged the player. FF IV made you into the anti-hero on a quest for redemption. FF VI forced you to play the game from the perspective of a dizzying array of "protagonists," each of whom had their own deep backstory and hopes for the future. FF VII was a grand opera masquerading as a video game, forcing the player to accept the death of love and yet persevere for the greater good. This type of grand innovation and storytelling has been lacking from FF games for a long while. Nowadays, it seems more like Square-Enix is solely focused on increasing the visual appeal via better graphics and more fan-servicy female characters and bishounen.

Maybe they do need a grand shake-up, a story focusing on a protagonist (or protagonists) completely different from what they've been doing for the last decade or so. I would certainly love to see it.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:00 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Don't you get tired of seeing the exact same story played out again and again and again in a lot of lower quality JRPGs? Wouldn't you like to see something that breaks the mold and blows your mind?


Not really. I mean, I play nearly every JRPG that releases, and I still enjoy it since I'm a fan of JRPGs. I enjoy them for what they are, not what they aren't.

Recent stuff like FF12, Xenoblade and Nier tried to be different, and I didn't like those games. I'd take Atelier or Neptunia any day over any of those 3.
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Dessa
Baka RangerBaka Ranger


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:23 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
I like it when people think they know how to "fix" Final Fantasy (as if it's broken in the first place) ... I wish they'd get off their high horse and stop demanding they change in order to make them like those games.


It's an Opinion section. Whenever anyone I know talks about FF, it's always how the series has been going downhill recently. So what's the problem with a columnist stating his opinion and giving suggestions on things that might bring back fans.

He never said that these would "fix" the franchise, or "demanded" that they change. It was more along the lines of "here's some things that could help".


I did note a slight error, however, in that it was commented that III and IV were ported to the DS. This is true, but IV also was ported to the GBA, had a mobile phone sequel (which I believe is on the DS version), and a PSP port, which not only includes the game and mobile phone sequel, but a new sequence bridging the gap between the two (I think there's also options to switch between the original or DS soundtracks, but it's my roommate who played the game).
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Konopan



Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 306

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:28 am Reply with quote
All I want are proper 3/DS remakes of V and VI. Maybe the Vita, but for whatever reason the PSP only got super GBA ports when it came to classic FF titles, so I'm iffy on that.

VII could use a graphical/vocal update just as much as VIII or IX could. Heck, slap on a card game or some other worldwide minigame and it would be almost as fun as either of the two.
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